Ando was 15th, I think Rochette was 6th.
Their Olympic Records are:
Joannie: 2006-5th; 2010-3rd
Miki: 2006-15th; 2010-5th
I don't know how anyone can honestly claim that Ando is more competitive than Rochette.
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Ando was 15th, I think Rochette was 6th.
No video for Mao's?Here is Joannie's winning LP from Japan Open:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzxIv0iQhWA
And Laura's LP which won her Silver:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kiNSEMTc6Y
Mao placed third .....
yeah, I am sure Fumie Suguri will cry foul after seeing your statement.
Even the longer claim is subject to interpretation. Remind me, what place did Ando finish at the 2006 Olympics? And Rochette's?
You would rather not to underestimate Joannie Rochette. She surely does not have triple axel but has Lutz and Salchow. In the long program, 3A(s) is(or are) just one or two out of 12 elements.Has Joannie Rochette won anything important? Nope.
She wasn't even a serious competitor until last year and that with a huge push from Skate Canada.
Miki boring and labored LP was about 8 points more than Laura. Her SP was a disaster and that's how Laura got the bronze. Joannie could do worse at Worlds had she entered. She's very inconsistent, case in point: her GPF record. She got one world medal in the past 8 years. Somehow that made her Mao Asada's rival? Mao triple axels Asada? LOL.
Believe it or not, only 0.26 points diff. head to head does say alot!:thumbsup:One season (08-09) does not a rivalry make.
It's a bit of a stretch to count the 09-10 season as Mao and Joannie have only met head-to-head once (Olympics), Japan Open was a glorified cheesefest. Maybe if Joannie continues her competitive skating career there may be a rivalry, but that doesn't seem likely at this moment. Besides, Joannie's competitive record pales in comparison to Mao--Mao is 2x World Champion, 2x 4CC champion, and 2x GPF champion while Joannie hasn't won a single ISU championship. Miki is closer to a rival to Joannie than Mao, but even Miki has a world title under her belt.
Believe it or not, only 0.26 points diff. head to head does say alot!:thumbsup:
One season (08-09) does not a rivalry make.
It's a bit of a stretch to count the 09-10 season as Mao and Joannie have only met head-to-head once (Olympics), Japan Open was a glorified cheesefest. Maybe if Joannie continues her competitive skating career there may be a rivalry, but that doesn't seem likely at this moment. Besides, Joannie's competitive record pales in comparison to Mao--Mao is 2x World Champion, 2x 4CC champion, and 2x GPF champion while Joannie hasn't won a single ISU championship. Miki is closer to a rival to Joannie than Mao, but even Miki has a world title under her belt.
In other words, using your logic, Tara Lipinski should not have been considered a rival of Michelle Kwan?
Using my logic, Tara Lipinski should stilll have been considered a rival of Michelle Kwan.
Tara and Michelle both competed on the senior circuit from 1995-1998, so it would be reasonable to only count Michelle's titles in the years that they were actually competing against each other (just as I had only compared Joannie and Mao starting from the 2006-2007 season). If we were to count number of ISU championships won during that timespan, Tara had 1 Olympic title, 1 world title and 1 Champion Series Final title to Michelle's 2 world titles and 1 Champion Series Final title (though Michelle's 1998 world title was won during Tara's absence). Those are very comparable records, especially given that Tara was virtually a nobody during the 95-96 season. True, Tara only really dominated Michelle for the 96-97 season, but Tara did also manage to win the biggest title of the 97-98 season in the midst of Michelle's dominance and moreover, Tara was only on the full senior competition circuit for two seasons.
Using my logic, Tara Lipinski should stilll have been considered a rival of Michelle Kwan.
Tara and Michelle both competed on the senior circuit from 1995-1998, so it would be reasonable to only count Michelle's titles in the years that they were actually competing against each other (just as I had only compared Joannie and Mao starting from the 2006-2007 season). If we were to count number of ISU championships won during that timespan, Tara had 1 Olympic title, 1 world title and 1 Champion Series Final title to Michelle's 2 world titles and 1 Champion Series Final title (though Michelle's 1998 world title was won during Tara's absence). Those are very comparable records, especially given that Tara was virtually a nobody during the 95-96 season. True, Tara only really dominated Michelle for the 96-97 season, but Tara did also manage to win the biggest title of the 97-98 season in the midst of Michelle's dominance and moreover, Tara was only on the full senior competition circuit for two seasons.
That's pretty selective logic. You are omitting that Tara actually competed at the national level against Michelle prior to her winning the 97 U.S. National and not counting that Michelle completely dominated Tara for years prior to that surprise win in 97. Using your logic, since Tara only started to beat Michelle Kwan in 1997 and did not beat her in every single competition since either, including losing the 97 Skate America and 98 U.S. Nationals, which is at a fairly similar rate compared to the Asada/Rochette win/lose ratio since 2008 until 2010. I think your argument is suspect because it seems to me it is based on fairly selective data mining.
No, I think you completely missed my point.
In post #25, the one you questioned, the original point of my post was although Joannie had consistently beat out Mao during the 2008-2009 season, I would hesitate calling it a rivalry as Mao's competitive record regarding ISU championships far outstrips Joannie's within the overall trajectory of their careers. (6-0).
This, however, is not the case with Tara and Michelle. Though Michelle dominated Tara for most of the 95-96 (though I am loath to even include the 95-96 season as Tara wasn't even fully on the senior circuit at that point) and 97-98 seasons, I am much less hesistant calling the Tara-Michelle matchup a rivalry as their competitive records regarding ISU championships are much more comparable.
Sometimes is not bad to read the title.Yes, head-to-head does say a lot indeed. Mao and Joannie have met head-to-head nine times this Olympic quad in ISU competition.
Mao has topped Joannie 6 times out of 9 (2010 Olympics, 2007 and 2008 Worlds, 2008 4CC, 2008 GPF, 2007 Skate Canada) while Joannie has beat Mao 3 times all in the same season (2009 Worlds, 2009 4CC, 2008 TEB). If Joannie continues beating Mao, I'll be more convinced that they have a real rivalry.
Also, isn't it funny how statistics produce very different results when you adjust the size of the sample?
Thanks shine, OMG so touching~Just wanted to share this with everyone - Joannie's performance to "My Immortal"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWycUL02yNM
In the same vein, both Kostner and Lepisto have actually won ISU Championships compared to Rochette, who has zero, thanks to European Championship being significantly weaker compared to 4CC in ladies. Yet, I doubt anyone would use such stats to argue that Kostner and Lepisto are superior by the virtue of the number of ISU Championships they won. Hence, stats on their own are pretty meaningless unless they also made sense and logical argument or inferences can be made from them.
As for selective data mining, wouldn't that be the case if one ignores the years in which Mao was beating Joannie and only focused on their competitive results when Joannie started her rise during the 08-09 season?