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Thread: Johhny-help or hindrance?

  1. #31
    Dedicated follower of the black line Wicked's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bennett View Post
    I agree with the first part. I am not sure if the establishment is hesitant to acknowledge it. It depends on where you are, I guess. Isn't it just an open fact?
    I think it's the elephant in the room.

  2. #32
    Dreaming and dancing Bennett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wicked View Post
    I think it's the elephant in the room.
    This is a new English expression I've just learned from you. Thanks!

    It does not seem to be like the don't tell policy in the US military. There are many who neither make all the efforts to specifically hide it nor say it aloud. The skating community is not the biggest community in the world and people tend to know each other well. Yet, the elephants do not necessarily seem to damage their careers.

  3. #33
    Dedicated follower of the black line Wicked's Avatar
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    Elephants usually don't damage people's careers as long as they're ignored. It's when someone says, "I have an elephant" that the problems start.

  4. #34
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    I find that elephants make wonderful pets. I've had the most luxurious bathing experiences ever since bringing 2 elephants into my household. Their trunks have officially replaced my shower head. Very highly recommended.

  5. #35
    Custom Title heyang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I believe we must wait and see if any major TV network is interested in picking up Figure Skating. Are we sure the cable showing Universal Sports will be in business in the future? Is Icenetwork still viable after dying out on major events?
    Universal Sports is a subsidiary of NBC. However, not all cable operators have contracted for it... I just wish it was in HD.

  6. #36
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heyang View Post
    Universal Sports is a subsidiary of NBC. However, not all cable operators have contracted for it... I just wish it was in HD.
    Yes, but NBC is out of the market for figure skating, and I was just wondering since Unisport was started to get people interested in the Olys, will it continue to exist? I have no idea, if it is making money.

  7. #37
    ~ Figure Skating Is My Passion ~ Ladskater's Avatar
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    Well for what is worth, Toller Cranston (who was a very controversial skater here in Canada) was ahead of his time and did not mind causing an uproar in the skating world. The fans loved it. Toller is still one Canada's great male figure skating legends and helped to break the mold in men's figure skating in his day. Johnny Weir is no different and definitely adds drama to the sport.

  8. #38
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    I wondered whether Toller was controversial in Canada. Interesting to hear about his reputation at the time, Ladskater.

    Certainly he did Canada proud, with his long string of national championships and his Olympic bronze. More than that, he can probably be considered, along with John Curry, one of the two pillars of modern men's skating. These two rivals were both as athletic as they were artistic, in command of their jumps as well as musically expressive. Toller's problem was mainly his weakness in school figures, as I recall. I think he was something like ninth after school figures in the '76 Olympics, but he dramatically pulled himself up to a bronze medal after the long program. The efforts of Curry and Cranston (and I'm sure that each thought of the other as his main competition) made the men's event, to my mind, one of the most memorable in Olympic history. (In fact, I think I'll go check the "great rivalries" thread to see if their names have been mentioned.)

    I can see why one might compare Toller to Johnny in terms of the bohemian quality both bring to skating, but so far Toller has had more of an impact. For one thing, as several of us have said, during his time he was indeed a pathfinder who really advanced the discipline of men's skating. For another, he spent many years as a professional skater, both in televised events and in ice shows, including one in which he headlined. I hope Johnny has an equally long and illustrious career, but for now he hasn't reached that level of consistency.

    As for whether Weir's particular outrageous style is damaging to skating, I can't see that it is. A lot of people who are down on skating think the whole sport is a bit on the frilly side, I'm afraid, and even if Johnny started skating in a Michael Weiss muscle shirt, they'd continue to think that way. Preconceptions are hard to overcome. One great thing about TV dance shows like Dancing with the Stars is that people who were not previously exposed to dancing come to see that it's got strength and athleticism as well as sequins. They might start realizing that this is also true of skating. (A fan can dream!) I personally think that Maksim Chmerkovsky will turn out to be a boon to figure skating. (The fact that Evan Lysacek is currently on the show can't hurt, either!) But I confess I'm greatly disturbed by the lack of television coverage in the U.S. IceNetwork? What casual couch potato is going to come across that? We need to be on Wide World of Sports, flanked by auto racing and downhill skiing. How'd the USFSA and the ISU let major network coverage slip away?

  9. #39
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    How'd the USFSA and the ISU let major network coverage slip away?
    by charging more than it was worth ratings wise. they lost big sponsers that TV rely on for commercial profits.

  10. #40
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Jim McKay first retired & then died and Wide World of Sports is no more-can I say I really miss that show ?

    ABC is not the same without Jim.

  11. #41
    Gotta Have Music iluvtodd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    Jim McKay first retired & then died and Wide World of Sports is no more-can I say I really miss that show ?

    ABC is not the same without Jim.
    So true! To me, Jim Mckay will always be "Mr. Olympics" in my book!

  12. #42
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    I don't remember anything about Toller's off-ice interests, and I believe his style was based on his belief that skating should incorporate a bit more flair into the Men's programs. I don't remember if his style would be considered flamboyant albeit, it was not the standard of Men's programs. Johnny, on the other hand, is considered flamboyant, and his off-ice interests back that up. However, there are so many other good competitive points about Johnny's programs which make him a top skater. I don't think Johnny's style is complete. Imo, it needs a bit more masculine touch a la Ryan Bradley.

    It's boring when all the Men skate with that 19th century style.

  13. #43
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Toller is a very good painter - his ideas of art - whether in skating, choreography or other areas - imo reach a much greater depth than Lady Gaga

    http://www.adelecampbell.com/dynamic...?ArtistID=1308
    Last edited by janetfan; 04-29-2010 at 07:58 AM.

  14. #44
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Oh , Toller was definitely considered flamboyant, on the ice and off. It was the era of Nureyev , and Toller was widely considered to be his counterpart in the skating world. His wardrobe off the ice was equally dramatic to Nureyev's...talk about Panache !

    But I always felt that Toller , in his realm, was the more unique. Everything he did was his own creation ; his art , his choreography , his costumes , you name it. He created his style without the benefit of formal dance training; the artist in him just wanted to create beautiful shapes and positions on the ice.

    Of course he'll always be compared to John Curry , but they're really two different things. If we can switch genders for a moment, it's a little like trying to compare Anna Pavlova to Isidora Duncan. It can't really be done. You just have to give them both their due.

  15. #45
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=colleen o'neill;499722
    Of course he'll always be compared to John Curry , but they're really two different things. If we can switch genders for a moment, it's a little like trying to compare Anna Pavlova to Isidora Duncan. It can't really be done. You just have to give them both their due.[/QUOTE]
    Definitely different, and Curry was more into making figure skating an artform, hence his Company.

    But was Toller the same as Johnny Weir?

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