What will 2010-11 bring for Caroline Zhang?

Spun Silver · Apr 27, 2010

Olympia said:
I can certainly understand why people repeat suppositions about skaters. We're all so eager to find out how they're doing, especially when previously promising skaters seems to be going through hard times, that we seize on information that sounds knowledgeable. While I know there are posters out there who are malicious, I'm fairly sure that people in this conversation are genuinely puzzled or outright worried about Caroline and want to see her improve.

Are you saying it's fine to spread falsehoods as long as the intention is benign or as long as one is a fan?

Unfortunately in this kind of gossip, something that might or might not have been a grain of truth - after all, some "reports" originate in mere hearsay, opinion, or even envy or malice - gets embroidered in the repetition and is canonized even as its remoteness from objective truth grows. People stop talking about it as a rumor and keep it going as a fact.

It's not as if there's no malice in the skating world, or among fans. :sheesh: We're all very human, AFAIK.

It's one thing to make logical deductions about someone's skating -- e.g., she has bad habits at 17, she had the same bad habits at 14, ergo a responsible person - her coaches or herself - is reprehensibly allowing those habits to continue. It's another thing to spread undocumented rumors, most of which are quite negative.

IMO folks should stick to giving their own opinions and giving some sort of substantiation for the stories they tell. It would be better to say, "Skater X was spotted eating a cookie by a friend of a friend of a friend who visited her rink last year" than "Skater X is reportedly addicted to sweets." Of course it sounds a bit silly.... :eek:

hwell:

silverlake22 · Apr 27, 2010

jjane45 said:
Did you bring up Yag and Plush to show how unstable such situation is?
From FB it seems like Caroline still has not returned to California.
I wonder if she will pull a Patrick Chan and decide to stay in Colorado for coaching...

Hmm, I wonder. Is Patrick still coachless and in Colorado? :laugh:

I love how the ladies world champion and the men's world silver medalist won their medals without coaches!

mskater93 · Apr 27, 2010

Tinymavy15 said:
Well he had Tim Goebel when he took on Evan but sort of had his assistant coach work with Evan most of the time. Rivals do share coaches often, Davis and White/ Virtue and Moir, Naomi Nari Nam/Sasha Cohen, Domina and Shabalin/Belbin and Agosto, all the Chinese pairs, the two Florida pairs, jeremey Abbott/ Ryan Bradley, Yagudin and Plushenko.

Yes, but Tim was on his way out of Frank's system when Evan came in (who was working mostly with Ken Congemi at the time). Evan was up and coming and Tim was on the downward slide of his career so my use of "level" is different than just meaning two Senior Men in this case. I mean two skaters who would be contending for the same title who have legitimate chances at the title in question. Yes, rivals do share coaches but Frank tends not to coach two of the same "level" simultaneously if you look at his history: Linda F, Chris B, Kwan, Goebel, Lysacek, Nagasu....

In any case, it does seem that one of the two rivals DOES get somewhat of the short shrift in the West when they share a coaching team. I think D/W get short shrifted from Igor and Marina a bit as their development is a little behind and their PCS is a little lower. I though B/A got short shrifted from Igor and Marina as well and I think they thought so too since they changed coaching teams before D/S went to Lininchuk. Yags clearly thought so or else he would have stayed with Papa Michin. Same for Jeremy Abbott. Just my $0.02

Layfan · Apr 27, 2010

janetfan said:
I hadn't watched this before - here is Caroline's 2010 4CC Bronze medal winning LP.

Looking at this it is easy to see that Caroline has some very nice qualities but also needs to work on some problems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOkkpgnKCbo

For comparison, here is Sasha skating to the same music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px2VRUSQAKg&NR=1

Wow, Caroline easily compares to Sasha when it comes to lovely arm positions and her spins and spirals.
But geez, her slo-o-o-wness and the mule kick are sooooo distracting.

I was skeptical last year that she had improved and and I'm skeptical that she'll work out her kinks this year. But I can certainly see why a lot of people don't want to give up on her.

silverlake22 · Apr 28, 2010

I know Caroline was a better skater when she was younger but I think there is something to be said about her new found maturity and elegance. She looks like a senior lady out there now, not like a little kid. Yes, she needs a lot of work on her jumps and speed, but in some ways, I think she has improved, and I personally prefer the grown up looking Caroline to the one that looked like an 8 year old at age 14.

cornell08 · Apr 28, 2010

Wow, the bohemoth that is the annual Caroline Zhang thread is already off and running! So Caroline won't be back in Cali until May-- is it normal to spend this much time in another state just choreographing new programs? Am I just paranoid she might be coach shopping within vicinity of Tom Z? *Shudder*

silverlake22 · Apr 28, 2010

cornell08 said:
Wow, the bohemoth that is the annual Caroline Zhang thread is already off and running! So Caroline won't be back in Cali until May-- is it normal to spend this much time in another state just choreographing new programs? Am I just paranoid she might be coach shopping within vicinity of Tom Z? *Shudder*

May starts in 2 days...

PolymerBob · Apr 29, 2010

Well let's see. Caroline has to eliminate her mule-kick, increase her speed, choreograph 2 programs ............. yes, that should take until the middle of May. :biggrin:

janetfan · Apr 29, 2010

PolymerBob said:
Well let's see. Caroline has to eliminate her mule-kick, increase her speed, choreograph 2 programs ............. yes, that should take until the middle of May.

Can we sum it up and say Caroline must begin demonstrating acceptable senior level skills or she will forever be remembered as the adorable junior skater who never progressed after the age of 14.

I don't know if she can change/improve her technique or develope better PE skills but I sure hope she does. I always root for Caroline to do her best but last season was painful fo watch.

As nice as it was to see Caroline smiling again at 4CC - did her 3rd place finish in a very lacklustre field convince her that everything is fine and no changes are necessary?

I wonder if we will hear some news soon........:think:

PolymerBob · Apr 29, 2010

I found Caroline's AT&T commercial. :clap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_DIeJojLRU

feraina · Apr 29, 2010

PolymerBob said:
I found Caroline's AT&T commercial.

Oh, very nice.

I really hope that she's going to change coaches before long. Hopefully her stay in CO is the beginning of something more permanent. Whoever Chan has been working with has really helped his jumps. I can see that he has a lot more height/flow in his jumps, and his 3A is a lot more secure, since he moved there. But I'm especially impressed in the newly gained height and strength in his jumps in general. It's really noticeable. Hopefully Caroline can get some help there too.

PolymerBob · May 2, 2010

feraina said:
Oh, very nice.
I really hope that she's going to change coaches before long. Hopefully her stay in CO is the beginning of something more permanent. Whoever Chan has been working with has really helped his jumps. I can see that he has a lot more height/flow in his jumps, and his 3A is a lot more secure, since he moved there. But I'm especially impressed in the newly gained height and strength in his jumps in general. It's really noticeable. Hopefully Caroline can get some help there too.

I haven't heard anything official, nor even unofficial, about a coaching change. It could be Caroline went to Colorado just to fix certain issues. I wonder who she is working with.

PROKOFIEV · May 2, 2010

PolymerBob said:
I haven't heard anything official, nor even unofficial, about a coaching change. It could be Caroline went to Colorado just to fix certain issues. I wonder who she is working with.

I did hear from my friend who coaches in California that Caroline does not practice much at all.She tends to stay near board a lot. She thinks that she may be very discouraged by the last season's result and harsh criticism of her jump technique. Also she has the teenager rebellious attitude which you know EVERYONE gets. But my friend says when she pratices, she is the mos beautiful thinkg to watch and she has such a strong charisma that pulls your attention. Of course her spins and spirals are the best in the world. I never heard about colorado story, but if it is true, i would be very happy. I really would lik her to get her confidence back and shine next season. I always felt that some people is too harsh on her jumps.

PolymerBob · May 5, 2010

Very interesting. I was checking out a few skater Twitter pages, and saw that Caroline no longer protects her page.

Joesitz (RIP) · May 5, 2010

I think it was at the St.Louis Nationals that I first saw Caroline executing double jumps in Juniors while a few of her competitors were doing triples. But she had such beautiful line which so impressed me that I would announce she would be the next big American skater. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. Her flaws are correctable and I do not understand why her coaches didn't work on them, but since young lady skaters seem to me to be in a hurry to be crowned Olympic Champion that their technique suffers.

Balanchine insisted, among other things, that his dancers have perfect technique. If they made the corps de ballet he believed that the music would give the dancer the personality that goes with a performance.

What I am expecting Caroline to bring to her next competition is the simple take-off for her toe jumps. No need for the mule kick and jam the pick into the ice. That's horrible technique.

The other big flaw as I see it, is her speed, A good coach would encourage her to gather more speed at practice when she is preparing for an exhibition (competitive or otherwise).

Judges, at least subliminally, want to see command of the ice with good technique. Caroline has to work on that. It wont be easy because these flaws are habit forming. We'll soon see if she gets a GP.

janetfan · May 5, 2010

Joesitz said:
Judges, at least subliminally, want to see command of the ice with good technique. Caroline has to work on that. It wont be easy because these flaws are habit forming. We'll soon see if she gets a GP.

Wouldn't Caroline's Bronze medal from 4CC assure her of atleast one GP slot for this season?

I believe it was the only medal won by a US lady at a major ISU event last season.
Unless her skating has deteriorated I would think Caroline might get two GP assignments.

PolymerBob · May 5, 2010

I forget exactly which ISU rule applies, but Caroline is guaranteed one Grand Prix assignment. She will almost certainly get two.

Olympia · May 5, 2010

Joesitz said:
I think it was at the St.Louis Nationals that I first saw Caroline executing double jumps in Juniors while a few of her competitors were doing triples. But she had such beautiful line which so impressed me that I would announce she would be the next big American skater. Unfortunately, that didn't happen. Her flaws are correctable and I do not understand why her coaches didn't work on them, but since young lady skaters seem to me to be in a hurry to be crowned Olympic Champion that their technique suffers.

Balanchine insisted, among other things, that his dancers have perfect technique. If they made the corps de ballet he believed that the music would give the dancer the personality that goes with a performance.

What I am expecting Caroline to bring to her next competition is the simple take-off for her toe jumps. No need for the mule kick and jam the pick into the ice. That's horrible technique.

The other big flaw as I see it, is her speed, A good coach would encourage her to gather more speed at practice when she is preparing for an exhibition (competitive or otherwise).

Judges, at least subliminally, want to see command of the ice with good technique. Caroline has to work on that. It wont be easy because these flaws are habit forming. We'll soon see if she gets a GP.

I also believe that Caroline has too many good points for us to give up on her. I love your quote about Balanchine. I too am puzzled that there are coaches who would let any skater, let alone one as wonderful as Caroline, hold on to such substandard technique, even just for reasons of personal pride--no coach trains a skater anonymously, and every skater is an advertisement, for good or ill, for his/her coach. I understand that some skaters have a strong will, but how hard is it to get a fifteen-year-old girl to practice stroking for speed for a half hour every day?

Joesitz (RIP) · May 5, 2010

PolymerBob said:
I forget exactly which ISU rule applies, but Caroline is guaranteed one Grand Prix assignment. She will almost certainly get two.

You're probably correct. I believe Sylvia or someone mentioned that there are new rules afoot.

Anyway even one with improvements in speed and better toe-pic take-offs will be a happy occasion for one so talented. I still think she is special.

Sylvia · May 5, 2010

Based on past years' Grand Prix selection guidelines, Zhang is guaranteed one Senior GP due to being in the top 24 ISU World Standings rankings (12th) at the end of this season. The top 24 skaters/teams in the ISU Season Best scores list are also guaranteed 1 Senior GP. Since Zhang is 20th on that list, it's likely she will end up with 2 GP assignments.

We won't know for sure if there will be any significant changes in the GP selection guidelines until the 2010-11 GP Announcement is published online.

What will 2010-11 bring for Caroline Zhang?

Spun Silver

silverlake22

mskater93

Layfan

silverlake22

cornell08

silverlake22

PolymerBob

janetfan

Match Penalty

PolymerBob

feraina

PolymerBob

PROKOFIEV

PolymerBob

Joesitz (RIP)

janetfan

Match Penalty

PolymerBob

Olympia

Joesitz (RIP)

Sylvia

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