Major Changes Expected in Single Skating in 2010-2011

[RumbleFish]

ITA. It is so obvious that this rule is meant to benefit a specifc skater at this point in time. But I don't mind having this change at all because a real artist doesn't complain about their brushes. A champion will rise to the occasion no matter what.

ITA. Though it is disgusting to see rules being manipulated to hold up a skater, such acts won't prevent people remembering the real best skater.
I really don't care if Mao Asada could gather some more points with her wonky triple axels.

We all know who gave a monumental performance at skating's premiere event, and who received rave reviews from legendary skaters.
Guess who was selected as Time Magazine's 100 most influential people and about to mingle with Lady Gaga and Bill Clinton at a party in New York.
It is nice to know that there are things in life you can't buy or lobby for. lol

[wallylutz]

We all know who gave a monumental performance at skating's premiere event, and who received rave reviews from legendary skaters.
Guess who was selected as Time Magazine's 100 most influential people and about to mingle with Lady Gaga and Bill Clinton at a party in New York.
It is nice to know that there are things in life you can't buy or lobby for. lol

um...you mean Joannie Rochette? B/C she fulfilled all of the above criteria.

[RumbleFish]

um...you mean Joannie Rochette? B/C she fulfilled all of the above criteria.

I know that JoRo was one of the candidates for the list, but was she chosen in the end?
I don't know whether she will be in the party either.

JoRo performed wonderfully in the Olys, but I'm afraid she is not the one I'm talking about.

[GiuliaPlum]

Oh, come on. Don't tease us like that.

I know the consequences would be dire for you if you spilled the beans. But you could sign up for GS under a new name, then no-one would know it was you!

Wallylitz?

[brianjyw]

Exactly. Noone needs to cry over the changes. I believe it will benefit every skaters in the future.

Nobody is crying over it. They are just stating the obvious.

[Joesitz]

The ISU Congress isn't until next month. I'm sure Golden Skate can fill up a whole thread with speculation and hypotehticals before any of these proposals are decided on.

Amen, Amen, I say to you, let's wait and see just what the ISU Congress has in mind. They may be tyring to improve the SP which certainly needs it. I for one, can not grasp the need for it. A lady skater does her 3x2 in the SP and then falls on it in the LP. What does that tell us about a skater with respect to her skating ability? How can we honestly say a skater has deserved to win a championship on the basis of his SP only. Think Joubert in 2007 Worlds with a huge lead in the SP and then faltering badly to a 5th place LP while Daisuke and Lambiel were outstanding. Does it make sense? I understand the methodology to have him in 1st place but I'm not convinced he was the best in that competition. Best thing for the ISU to decide would be to test only elements in the SP without music and have a Free Skate at a later date. And that's only if they insist on having a 2 part competition.

[Joesitz]

Does anyone have an opinion on the actual merits of the new rule?

Not while there is a hot nationality debate going on.

Sad, that most posters have to think of their Country first and then the Sport. It's all that media blitz.

[dlgpffps]

Who was it that said he/she hates seeing the same spirals put into a program for the sake of garnering points? Would I be the only one glad to see the spiral sequence go as a requirement in the SP? It's one of my least favorite elements in many skaters' programs, at times forced into the routine and ruining flow. I don't, however, like that it will be considered just a "transition element." Would any skater include it, once without any clear benefits? What if one required element was left open for a spin or spiral? Could the rule change concerning spirals in the FS be a blessing in disguise, and in fact encourage greater creativity on the part of skaters? People were complaining about how the levels don't encourage much. Or is that my hopeless little wish

[Joesitz]

Who was it that said he/she hates seeing the same spirals put into a program for the sake of garnering points? Would I be the only one glad to see the spiral sequence go as a requirement in the SP? It's one of my least favorite elements in many skaters' programs, at times forced into the routine and ruining flow. I don't, however, like that it will be considered just a "transition element." Would any skater include it, once without any clear benefits? What if one required element was left open for a spin or spiral? Could the rule change concerning spirals in the FS be a blessing in disguise, and in fact encourage greater creativity on the part of skaters? People were complaining about how the levels don't encourage much. Or is that my hopeless little wish

I agree. I would like to see a back spiral as an MIF and transits to a triple toe-off jump.

[miki88]

Not while there is a hot nationality debate going on.

Sad, that most posters have to think of their Country first and then the Sport. It's all that media blitz.

That's what I was going to say. This thread is turning into the same debate that has populated other threads.

[gkelly]

Who was it that said he/she hates seeing the same spirals put into a program for the sake of garnering points? Would I be the only one glad to see the spiral sequence go as a requirement in the SP? It's one of my least favorite elements in many skaters' programs, at times forced into the routine and ruining flow. I don't, however, like that it will be considered just a "transition element." Would any skater include it, once without any clear benefits?

The benefits will be in the transitions score . . . which we hope will be judged more consistently according to the guidelines, although they'll never be as clearly spelled out as the element scoring.

However, since spirals would no longer be required in short programs, many skaters will choose to do other kinds of transitions instead.

Since it doesn't appear that the short program time limit will be reduced, skaters will have time to do more non-element moves between the elements with only 7 instead of 8 elements in the same time period. We hope that they won't spend the extra time just stroking around or posing. Since the SP time limit is only a maximum with no minimum, what we might see is some skaters cutting their music shorter again.

What if one required element was left open for a spin or spiral?

So which of the existing short program spins would be deleted?
If this did happen, I'm sure it would not be free choice of the skater whether to include a spiral sequence or a third spin. (In long programs yes, but not in the short.)

I could imagine a rotation such as spiral sequence one year, flying spin the next year, layback the year after that.

But what would be the parallel rotation for the men? Some years they do three spins and one step sequence, and other years two spins and two step sequences?

Anyway, that possibility is not currently on the radar.

In the 1970s and 80s, the short program consisted of three jump elements, three spin elements, and a step sequence. The spiral sequence and men's second step sequence were added in 1989. So this change would be going back to the original 7-element SP structure.

Could the rule change concerning spirals in the FS be a blessing in disguise, and in fact encourage greater creativity on the part of skaters? People were complaining about how the levels don't encourage much. Or is that my hopeless little wish

I'm sure it will inspire greater creativity.
Look at the spiral sequences from the 1990s and early 2000s. There was a lot more variety then because skaters could do whatever spiral-related skills they thought would impress the judges without worrying whether it officially counted as a "difficult variation" or whether they could hold the edges for 3 seconds.

The current skaters have spent the last few years working on their edge changes and catch-foot positions and whatever you want to call the position with the free leg in front and the upper body slightly leaning back, because those were the easiest ways to assure higher levels. Now that they have developed those skills, I'm sure we'll still see them plenty often.

But anyone who can do something else that looks just as impressive but wouldn't have counted as a feature in the current rules, or not consistently, will now be free to put their own personal wow moves into the LP spiral sequence and stand out from the crowd that way.

E.g., I expect we'll see more slide spirals (hard to hold for 3 seconds) coupled with a 6-second spiral on the other foot.

My concern is whether judges will have enough room in the GOEs to distinguish between a skater with great edges, positions, creativity, and difficulty vs. someone who excels at only one or two of the above.

[dlgpffps]

My concern is whether judges will have enough room in the GOEs to distinguish between a skater with great edges, positions, creativity, and difficulty vs. someone who excels at only one or two of the above.

Good point. Thanks for your input. I've been wondering about GOE-limits. I guess we have nothing else to do but sit and wait. The first event of the year will probably tell (if the rule's passed, of course).

[bekalc]

Originally Posted by janetfan
Or maybe some judges/fans like to say this skater was an incredible jumper:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQXiiknXAH8

but he lacked the artistry of this skater:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhIiisXRBys

Did the judges get it right - and if so how did the "Crossover King" place ahead of the "Quad King?"

Sigh. Plushenko was not placed ahead of Tim because of artistry. There's a reason the judges put Yagudin ahead of Plushenko at the Grand Prix Final, even though Plushenko was cleaner. The North American judges weren't necessarily "enamored" with Plushenko's artistry.

Plushenko was placed ahead of Tim because of basic skating. I.e Tim had very poor skating skills, basics and posture. And a lot of people felt Tim's medaling was what was wrong with the system. Because he was a poor skater. And even I'm told Tim will admit that.

In contrast, while the North Americans may not have been enamored with Plushenko's artistry. They could not deny the fact that he was a much better skater than Tim. Plushenko in his prime was someone who could generate a ton of speed with a few crossovers and skated with a ton of power. The only thing Tim had over Plushenko was the 4sal (and the fact that a quad was at the end of the program) when it came to quality of his jumps, Plushenko's was much better.

Think Joubert in 2007 Worlds with a huge lead in the SP and then faltering badly to a 5th place LP while Daisuke and Lambiel were outstanding

Joubert didn't "falter poorly" in the long. He just skated safely and watered down his jump content. He wasn't that far ahead behind most of the others in the long. In the free skate at that competition, a LOT of men skated extremely well and that was one of the best free skate portions of a Worlds in recent memory. However, Joubert's win was very much deserved because the other men all made some mistakes in the short.

[janetfan]

Sigh. Plushenko was not placed ahead of Tim because of artistry. There's a reason the judges put Yagudin ahead of Plushenko at the Grand Prix Final, even though Plushenko was cleaner. The North American judges weren't necessarily "enamored" with Plushenko's artistry.

Plushenko was placed ahead of Tim because of basic skating. I.e Tim had very poor skating skills, basics and posture. And a lot of people felt Tim's medaling was what was wrong with the system. Because he was a poor skater. And even I'm told Tim will admit that.

In contrast, while the North Americans may not have been enamored with Plushenko's artistry. They could not deny the fact that he was a much better skater than Tim. Plushenko in his prime was someone who could generate a ton of speed with a few crossovers and skated with a ton of power. The only thing Tim had over Plushenko was the 4sal (and the fact that a quad was at the end of the program) when it came to quality of his jumps, Plushenko's was much better.

I agree with almost everything you said. My post was meant to be a reminder to the quad freaks that there is more to skating than jumps.

As to Tim's quad - they remain the best I have seen. Not a fan of the muscled looking quads with heavy landings we see from most of the guys. Tim's quads looked effortless compared to just about every skater I have seen and had great air position.

Plushy's jumps? Never my favorite and the best thing I could say about them - even back in 2002 is that he had such consistency.

About speed and power - Mirai appears to have better acceleration than Mao - but that hardly means she is a better skater.

[bekalc]

About speed and power - Mirai appears to have better accelaration than Mao - but that hardly means she is a better skater.

Its not like Tim had Mao like knees, posture, or edge quality. He had not very good stroking at all. Sure the spins and stroking improved under Carroll, but it was still no where near the top level. There's a reason Tim only has one national championship in the US, even though Tim was by far our best jumper for years..

And I disagree with the idea that Plushenko's quads were forced back in the day. Plushenko's jumps as a whole were pretty effortless. The guy's one of the best jumpers in the history of the sport. And if you want to give Tim the quad, I'd say the rest of the jumps still go to Plushenko by a mile (like the triple axel)