Major Changes Expected in Single Skating in 2010-2011

[sunny0760]

In addition, the rule could likely be the result of compromise. It doesn't necessarily mean that the federation didn't request a UR change or increase in base value for the 3a. This could be just the best could do under the circumstances meaning that either their original requests were negotiated down or maybe they thought that members would launch less opposition. The axel rule also is not a substantive change as the other ideas because it keeps its original form: skaters can still do the 2a

Interesting observation/speculation! You may be right.
Anyways, I don't know these changes are the most needed and urgent for the development of figure skating. Think that more consistent and fair UR/edge calls and PCSs in judging are much more needed than revision of rules. Even though this time's changes seem to favor one skater, maybe some federation's argument that the current rule is unfair for at least one skater now and supposedly a few more skaters in the near future to maximize their ability has been more persuasive than so called middle point for URs or increase of already high base value of 3A.

[Mathman]

Not very valuable in itself then.

It is valuable in the same way that winning your semi-final match to advance to the finals is valuable in tennis.

The placement in the short program would be very important. The margin of victory would not

I just can't break away from the feeling that competitive figure skating is an ordinal affair at heart. At the end of the day, you get gold, silver or bronze. Under 6.0 judging, all the scores were reduced to ordinals after both the short program and the long separately. Under the CoP this conversion is done only once, at the end. I think the former method is truer to the spirit of the sport.

[Joesitz]

It is valuable in the same way that winning your semi-final match to advance to the finals is valuable in tennis.

The placement in the short program would be very important. The margin of victory would not

I just can't break away from the feeling that competitive figure skating is an ordinal affair at heart. At the end of the day, you get gold, silver or bronze. Under 6.0 judging, all the scores were reduced to ordinals after both the short program and the long separately. Under the CoP this conversion is done only once, at the end. I think the former method is truer to the spirit of the sport.

It's not difficult to sit and watch a skater'a program and decide personally which skater did the best Technical elements with a minimum of minus goes. That is if you know the technique of the element. In the Senior Division, the top skaters generally all have the ability to execute the technical with clean elements, but will they at the time of a competition? That's what is intended for half the Sport.

And how many fans swoon over the PC portion and lose focus on the difficulty of the elements? We have to admit in Figure Skating that the presentation used in a Technical competition is a distraction away from the purpose of a technical competition. It's only rationale is to give the fans their love for the entertainment of an artsy presentation. Except for financial reasons, there is no real need for an SP presentation when judging the technical portion. However, included in the element scoring there is a form of artistic technique with the addition of the plus GoEs.However many fans are rapt up in 'artistry' and that takes away from the focus of the technical which I believe would be the purpose of a Technical Competition. The LP, imo, should come on strong for the PC scores. That's where the 'artistic' side of FS comes into play. It is the time for the competitors to show off those elements in a musical program with all those basics and MIFs we've been talking about.

Unfortunaately, it takes money to run these comps and there could be a deflation if the artistic portion of the competition would take a back seat in the SP. Most fans do not want to see a lady competitor execute a 2A without music. I'm losing this battle to make FS a real sport but the entertainment (sic) lovers (a vast majority) won't have it. The Entertainment needs money to keep it going at the box office and the TV ratings. But will it ever be acknowledged as a true Sport like Golf, Tennis, Diving, etc. again?

[mskater93]

Have you ever watched a compulsory event? That is basically what you are suggesting for the SP. It's like watching paint dry. If the SP became in essence a compulsory event, it would go the way of figures/CD.

[Mathman]

From the suggestions above, I do not see any change from what the requirements are presently.

I agree. Axel, schmaxel, someone might get an extra tenth of a point next year.

It's not difficult to sit and watch a skater'a program and decide personally which skater did the best Technical elements with a minimum of minus goes. That is if you know the technique of the element. In the Senior Division, the top skaters generally all have the ability to execute the technical with clean elements, but will they at the time of a competition? That's what is intended for half the Sport.

Actually, I would be OK with just one program, do or die, winner take all.

Would it really be necessary to have a separate technical program where the skaters do their jumps and spins without music and then turn around the next day and have another program where they do the same jumps and spins with music playing?

As you say, the judges can easily evaluate a skater's technique in either case. This would save money, satisfy the fans of artistry and of technical mastery at the same time, and fit the whole event into a nice TV slot. (Just a thought.)

[wonbinfan86]

16 points?! You're telling me you want the Triple Axel to be worth nearly the same amount of base points that Kevin VDP got for his 4-3-3 at Worlds? (Though by your formula that would be worth something like 30 points...perhaps).

The triple axel is very difficult, yes, but don't be fooled into thinking a 3-3 is easier. If it was, then why aren't more women doing it? I can count on my two hands the number of women that did a 3-3 at Worlds and on one hand who did a tougher one than the 3T-3T.

It is not easy to keep your speed and flow to rotate that second triple. If you don't have enough speed or your first jump isn't precise you are at risk of UR (or doubling) the second jump.

Besides the Triple Axel as single jump is already 37 percent higher in base value than the triple lutz, the next most difficult jump. (The difference between a lutz from a flip and so forth is only about 9 percent).

By the same argument why isn't Yuna putting two triple axels in her free program instead of doing the 3 double axels?

[Basics]

By the same argument why isn't Yuna putting two triple axels in her free program instead of doing the 3 double axels?

Because it's hard and injury-risking, and perhaps she's thinking she doesn't even need them to win.

16 points for triple axel? come on~ It worths almost 5 times a double axel.

[PROKOFIEV]

Because it's hard and injury-risking, and perhaps she's thinking she doesn't even need them to win.

16 points for triple axel? come on~ It worths almost 5 times a double axel.

Or simply, because she can not do it!

[brownfox]

Or simply, because she can not do it!

Actually she can: http://yunaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1409

And Orser is the right coach to teach her to get even better, who is known for his triple axles.

[PROKOFIEV]

Actually she can: http://yunaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1409

And Orser is the right coach to teach her to get even better, who is known for his triple axles.

WOOW! I could not download the video, but it will be great if she starts landing them. Can you imagine what is going to happen to her score with her amazing 3-3 and 3As? I would not be surprised if she start putting them in her program this season. Then it means 3A rule changes are good for Yuna, too.

[Joesitz]

Whatever happened to the Major Changes discussion? Should we just change the Forum to a Mao/Yuna Debate? It's in every topic. :sheesh:

oooo, that was snarky of me.

[Basics]

Whatever happened to the Major Changes discussion? Should we just change the Forum to a Mao/Yuna Debate? It's in every topic. :sheesh:

oooo, that was snarky of me.

Cuz, some refer these major changes as "Mao rule".

[dorispulaski]

Maybe a little bit snarky, but I have deleted the YuNa vs Mao items from public view. Not only is this is the wrong thread for them.-they kept straying into smearing of different cultures, requiring a lot of moderation.

For those wanting to speculate on cultural norms of different ethnic groups/cultures, please take those to the Politics forum. Feel free to start a thread there.

Please continue with discussion of the ISU changes!

[rtureck]

Actually she can: http://yunaforum.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1409

And Orser is the right coach to teach her to get even better, who is known for his triple axles.

Well great, maybe the new rule will push her out of her comfort zone and do the 3a. So the potential new rule is not intended just for Mao, why am I not surprise?

[Joesitz]

Have you ever watched a compulsory event? That is basically what you are suggesting for the SP. It's like watching paint dry. If the SP became in essence a compulsory event, it would go the way of figures/CD.

That's my argument. It takes away from the Sport, and I'm on the losing side of this debate. Frankly, I just don't give a damn about artistry. For many many years Figure Skating was School Figures and Free Skating. There was no problem. Unfortunatley forBrian Orser et al like him the School Figures won the competition and he with the better artistry had to swallow that. We could now adjust to this situation since the School Figures have been eliminated we could replace it with a show-your-prowess by having a grand Technical competition. No need for the background music so often used in the SPs. But, the free skate should have music for interpretation as a separate but important entity to the final score. Just my suggestion, and I bet you would be keely interested to see those 3x3s, 3As, and Quads being in judged on thei own merits in a separate Tech Comp, and then scored together with the LP How boring is that?
Some of us do not need an artistry fix which will be covered very importantly in the Free Skate as it was in the days of School Figures.

BTW, I do watch Ice Dance except for the Viennese Waltz, and love it.