Major Changes Expected in Single Skating in 2010-2011

[fairly4]

that is right-all federations play up to the federation skaters who the federation wants up their. who the federation wants up-isn't who the people want up-see michelle, tara, sarah and sasha.
but what is really is lack of which they took out of communication---CODE OF ETHiCS--there isn't any-no ethics--no fair play-no now-not back- when- not ever.

not in way of thinking or lifestyle-sorry-until they come across with code of ethics-you can say all you want about judges going out of their way to judge fair-but until actions (they actually do-no ethics-or fair play at all in all olympic discplines.
just favoring which skater that want to win ogm or not. bend and break rules to favor that skater/team.

[Robeye]

I think the ISU is proposing to make it more of a Sport for Figure Skating and it's not just for little girls anymore. I praise them for it as well as Mischin for thinking about the sport rather than the faux artistry. I have nothing against good presentation but some fans seem to me to be engulfed in it

The old short story "The Monkey's Paw" (the theme being that the results of a wish may not be what was expected) suddenly popped into mind when I read this. I don't know about "faux artistry", but if artistry were not a fundamental part of figure skating, it would lose its uniquely addictive appeal, and I suspect not just for me but for a majority of fans, both hardcore and general public. I'd probably stop following it and watch more golf or football, while skating would probably go the way of curling.

And ironically, it's because of the artistry (faux or otherwise) that skating is not completely dominated by little girls (that and the age rule). As a rule, jumps don't age well, but artistry does.

[Bennett]

Likes
- 10% bonus on combos
- Two quads in men and 3A for ladies allowed in SP

Dislikes
- I like spirals and don't want to see them go from SP.
- I like steps and don't want to see one of them go from SP.
- No BV for Spirals in FS does not make sense.
- No BV for the second step sequence does not make sense.

Wally all of the triples are dangerous for girls, not just the triple axel. And to be quite frank Mao has the triple axel and has had less major injuries than Yu-na. Its about how the training is done.

Mao keeps her injuries secret so there's no telling how much she has been healthy. Only long after the competitions, stories occasionally come out that she had broken her finger right before 2006 Nationals, that she used to have constant back pain, and that she twisted her left ankle 3 weeks before Worlds 2008 and was diagnosed to refrain from skating for a month etc. But with a personal physical trainer she's gotten two years ago, they say her injury prevention seems to be under better control even though they do acknowledge that 3A can be risky for injuries.

[Basics]

Dislikes
- I like spirals and don't want to see them go from SP.
- I like steps and don't want to see one of them go from SP.
- No BV for Spirals in FS does not make sense.
- No BV for the second step sequence does not make sense.

Exactly!

[fairly4]

when it passed it does

as far as meaning playing up skaters --i meant they played up =-=-tara, sarah and sasha at michelle's expense-
which is what they did to yu-na and now looks like they are going to do it for mao--same old, same old over 100 years-you wondering why american pubic left is totally suspects your OGM winners aren't really winners--amazing.

[rtureck]

That analogy is OK but not really true since MJ did not have a pet move that was considered dangerous.

In the entire history of Ladies skating how many have done 3A's? How many Ladies had ratified 3A's last season or to make it even more to the point - how many Ladies even attempted 3A's last season?

Why just look at last season and not the last several seasons, like someone said Yukari Nakano landed more 3a than Mao

Personally I agree with Wally about the purpose of the SP being a little bit like the CD in Ice Dancing.
The purpose was to judge the precision skaters demonstrated on required elements while skating to music. The SP is not merely a shortened version of the LP and that was never it's purpose. Nor was showing off the hardest tricks.

People keep saying the rule change might help several skaters - but there are not "several skaters" there is only one Lady skater doing the 3A.

According to Wally, Mao's batting average on the 3a is poor, so how is this rule change benefiting Mao tht much?

I don't really mind the rule change so much - but I find it incredulous that any poster can't see what it is about and who specifically it is meant to help.

I think that is too much of a conspiracy theory. I think the new rules will benefit Yuna the most since they are adding extra points to the 3/3. And BTW didn't Brian Orser said they are already or will be working on her 3a?

Is this 3A rule change created to take Ladies skating forward - or is it being changed to favor one skater - who is immensely popular - but has been having major technical problems with some of her other jumps and needs help keeping up with a rival?

Let's just call it what it is..........

I disagree, since the new rule change most definitely helps Yuna and may even hurt Mao. About immensely popular? The only thread here at GS that has more than 45 pages is about Yuna. Anyway since this is off season conspiracy theories are always entertaining

[Bennett]

UR should be punished, but it should not be more severely punished than more distracting mistakes such as falls, stepouts, and handsdowns. It is frustrating when the audience get excited, professional commentators all agree that the jumps are cleanly rotated even after looking at the slow-mo, and then it's called otherwise. It is frustrating to see something so subtle and controversial can make a big difference in scores.

Do they have any proposals addressing this issue that has been talked about a million of times during the last couple of years?

[RumbleFish]

Double axel is actually half way b/w a double and triple jump, since skaters rotate 2.5 times in air, I find nothing wrong to limit it to 2 per program

I said if number of double axels were to be limited, other double jumps should be limited as well.

Please read Wally's post carefully 3a is not a required element, skaters may substitute it for the 2a.

I advise you to read my post carefully before telling me to read other's post carefully. lol
I didn't say the triple axel would become a required element.
I said I don't like giving advantage to small number of skaters to let them choose triple axel instead of double axels.

Yeah, if yu want to say the proposed rules are "giving small number of skaters advantage", indeed giving one more base point to 3/3 is an advantage to Yuna.

Where to you get the idea of Yuna getting advantage from increased base value?
Rewarding combination jumps more by multiplying 1.1 to the base value is not limited to triple-triples.
The same principle would be applied to Asada's 3A-2T or any other combination jumps.
Please get the facts straight before jumping on other people's posts.

[Basics]

Question!!! Does this mean Mao can now do two triple axels in SP? No, right? I think she can only replace a double axel with triple, but can't do another cuz it's not allowed to repeat any triple jump in SP. Am I right?

Besides a spiral being taken out from sp. I don't have a problem with these rules even though I'm a hugh Yuna fan of course.

It will definitely give a few points advantage to Mao, but no worries to Yuna. She has a plenty of options even with two double axels.

[janetfan]

Why just look at last season and not the last several seasons, like someone said Yukari Nakano landed more 3a than Mao

]

That is why I said "in the entire history of Ladies skating" ...........

If we had Midori, Tonya and Yukari all competing next season along with Mao the rule change might make more sense. Then 4 out of the top 50 might be attempting a 3A in their SP. :indiff:

BTW, the skaters I mentioned did not always try a 3A in the SP - I think Midori much more than the others - and even Midori bagged her 3A in her Albertville Olympic SP.

But the skaters I mentioned - including Yukari - are NOT competing next season.
This rule change is for ONE skater, feels very politically motivated to me and that is part of what I don't like about it.

[rtureck]

That is why I said "in the entire history of Ladies skating" ...........

If we had Midori, Tonya and Yukari all competing next season along with Mao the rule change might make more sense. Then 4 out of the top 50 might be attempting a 3A in their SP. :indiff:

BTW, the skaters I mentioned did not always try a 3A in the SP - I think Midori much more than the others - and even Midori bagged her 3A in her Albertville Olympic SP.

But the skaters I mentioned - including Yukari - are NOT competing next season.
This rule change is for ONE skater, feels very politically motivated to me and that is part of what I don't like about it.

According to Wally, the Japanese federation did not formally request this, but I think there are several factors that influenced the tech committee. One reason may be truly they want to advance the sports. There are some male skaters who were very public on the issue of 3a should be worth more, and they think 3a/2t is more difficult than 3/3. Are the tech guys listening or being influenced. Since Mao is not that consistent with the 3a, this rule change really may not benefit her. But I do see a few ladies finally stepping up to put the 3a in thin practiceeir programs. I am sure many lady skaters are practicing/ working on the 3a, but since there is not much of incentive to put it comp, they are holding back. I have seen Shizuka landing 3a in practice back in 2003

[Mathman]

A closer analogy would be: Major League Baseball increases the value of a fastball in the zone from one strike to two, if it's above 95 mph. Do you think that might not increase the number of injuries, ruined arms and ruined careers?

No, I don't think so. Aspiring pitchers already try to throw the ball as hard as they can, and will continue to do so no matter what rules are in place.

(I will admit this, though. Ludmilla Nelidina landed a triple Axel at Skate America in 2002 -- who says European ladies can't jump?! Shortly thereafter, she suffered a nervous breakdown and never skated again. )

[janetfan]

According to Wally, the Japanese federation did not formally request this, but I think there are several factors that influenced the tech committee. One reason may be truly they want to advance the sports. There are some male skaters who were very public on the issue of 3a should be worth more, and they think 3a/2t is more difficult than 3/3. Are the tech guys listening or being influenced. Since Mao is not that consistent with the 3a, this rule change really may not benefit her. But I do see a few ladies finally stepping up to put the 3a in thin practiceeir programs. I am sure many lady skaters are practicing/ working on the 3a, but since there is not much of incentive to put it comp, they are holding back. I have seen Shizuka landing 3a in practice back in 2003

I did read wally's post and what you are saying is not what I think he was implying.

I am a big fan of Mao's skating and admire her fighting spirit so if I don't agree with the rule change it is not because I am against Mao or for Yuna. Actually I am for Mirai

As to holding the sport back I find that absurd when only one skater is attempting a 3A in her SP.
If one wished to say it is holding Mao back it might feel more truthful to me.

Raising the value of the 3A (again) is not the same thing as changing the axel requirements in the SP.

I think you make a fair enough point that the rule changes might not benefit any particular skater but I can't help feeling the axel change is an attempt to do just that.

[wallylutz]

As for limiting number of double axels, I find it unfair to limit double axels only while allowing other double jumps more than twice.
If the Zayak rule were to be applied to double axels, it should limit number of double toes and double loops as well.

There is no need to limit other double jumps. 1) Their values are too low. 2) Limited number of jumping passes act as a natural restraint.

During 07/08 season, Nakano Yukari had far more success with 3A than Mao Asada, and it could happen again.

I examined those on replay, Nakano's 3A were all under-rotated, so are her 3S+3Lo combos.

[wallylutz]

Question!!! Does this mean Mao can now do two triple axels in SP? No, right? I think she can only replace a double axel with triple, but can't do another cuz it's not allowed to repeat any triple jump in SP. Am I right?

Correct, the Triple Axel cannot be repeated in the SP. For that matter, neither can the Double Axel, which Mao found out in a hard way at Rostelecom Cup GP last fall, causing her to miss the GPF.

It will definitely give a few points advantage to Mao, but no worries to Yuna. She has a plenty of options even with two double axels.

Not sure, with only 4 Triples to work with, she will end up having to either include the Triple Loop and risk an error on that jump or downgrade the 7th jumping pass to something like a Double Flip. That's about 5 points of TES that is at risk here. This is not a trivial change for her.