I agree with RTureck's point that we needn't read anything sinister into this. Just like I don't think the Chicago Bulls bribed the NBA to let Michael Jordan take four steps instead of three on his driving dunks. (The NBA came yp with that all on its own. )
Skate Canada: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNz5E5Lka50
Cup of Russia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li1yV4z89zI
Grand Prix Final: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TcMbCNzNF-Q
These were ratified. Just because they were ratified, doesn't mean they were fully rotated.
It was about TV broadcasting money and the fact that figures did not work for TV audiences.
With the advent of color TV and better broadcasting possibilties ISU saw an opportunity to increase the popularity of the sport and went with it.
Are you suggesting that the 2A is no longer acceptable to TV and arena viewers and therefore ISU is making this bold move to increase skating's popularity?
I see only one reason for this change and do not think it will make skating more or less popular.
It will help make limited money for a couple of years and then most likely be changed or simply ignored.
I don't believe we will ever see more than 1-2 Lady skaters landing 3A's in the CoP era.
Most are struggling to master the traditional triples and in fact very few do them today.
Maybe it depends on what we like and what we think takes the sport forward.
Last edited by janetfan; 05-01-2010 at 02:43 PM.
My point is that the situation would be even worse if the rules were changed such that throwing 95-mile fastball counted for more than a slider that catches the outside corner. Under the current rules, pitchers like Greg Maddux can exist and be considered a lock for the Hall of Fame. In my hypothetical scenario, where the fastball strikes counts for more than any other pitch, he'd probably have quit very young and become a dentist. Currently, coaches can teach young pitchers the craft because it's a real alternative; but if that theory lost viability under new incentives, you can bet that the off-speed pitch is going to be a thing of the past. The consequence of this would be skyrocketing injuries, because, truth be told, only a very small fraction of pitchers can throw at 95 mph for an extended period without causing serious harm to themselves. I think the analogy I'm trying to draw with figure skating is pretty self-explanatory.
That being said, I can't say that I know for certain one way or the other whether the proposed increase in incentive for the 3A will have such an effect. But IMO it's worth thinking about and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand.
I am not sure which competition that was. To me, it looks as good, if not slightly better, than her 3S.
ETA: I think it was 2009 4CC, LP warmup (she attempted it in the competition and fell).
Last edited by yunasashafan; 05-01-2010 at 01:29 PM.
I like this rule. I'd worry that it will discourage girls from working on spirals but as far as I can tell COP only encourages women to get into horrible positions anyway because they seem to get full credit even if they look awful.
I understand that the spirals are also about the steadiness of the edge and how long you can hold it. But who cares how long a skater holds a spiral if they look like they're in pain the whole time and cheating their back and hip placements just to get their legs a little higher? Ew.
As for the 3a, I am not sure what to think. And I have a question (sorry if it's been answered but haven't seen it): Does the new rule mean that a woman can do two 3a in the SP? i.e. one in combo and one alone? If that's the case it would definitely give skaters like Mao a big advantage, although it would be pretty risky of her to try that in a short, no?
I think we'd have to see how it would play out. Just because girls CAN do a 3a in the short doesn't mean they will necessarily think it would be advantageous to throw their eggs in that basket.
What would someone like Mao do with that extra jump option? If she still had no 3-3 would she still be at at disadvantage because the 3 lutz-3T is still worth more than a 3a? This time she was able to do a 3a in her short AND a 2a. What would she do with her combo if she didn't have to worry about the 2a? I'm not so sure she would have SUCH an advantage over Yuna.
And as for the other girls, Mao is already way ahead of them anyway when she skates clean. Some like Mirai could focus on getting her 3 lutz-3toe consistent and still potentially have an advantage of Mao in the short, no?
Last edited by Layfan; 05-01-2010 at 01:47 PM.
No Wally I'm not because the skaters only get to repeat two jumps and get 3 combos. So the third combo is free. You can choose to add the triple toe to your easiest jump. And make your harder jumps you want to repeat, easier combinations. Plushenko's easiest jump was a double axel (because he wasn't doing the 3flip) so he could have done a double axel/3toe instead of his 4toe/3toe. And heck, if he had done the double axel/3toe at the end of his program and that's a much easier combination so that's more likely-his base value would have been HIGHER. Its fairly ridiculuos. If Plushenko wanted to repeat the 4toe, he could have done a 4toe/2toe instead a 3lutz/2toe. Ideally he'd add on a 2loop at the end of the double axel/3toe/2loop.. :lol:O.K., I get what you are saying now, thanks for the clarification. Your argument has one critical flaw however. You are completely ignoring the strategic positioning of jump repetition in the overall construction of a LP. 2A+3T will automatically cross out a combo box and a wasted opportunity to repeat a more difficult jump in the program. I have explained these many times before so I will just have to refer you to how I answered these questions previously:
Frankly I don't think 10% bonus is enough for combinations. But its better than the current system.
Last edited by bekalc; 05-01-2010 at 02:35 PM.
The only real way that the 3A rule will benefit Mao is that she can do the 3A now without worrying about a downgrade and losing all value. Plus I think this will encourage her to drop the 3A-2t and go for her 3-3 again.
I think this may encourage Ladies to train the 3A since they now won't have to worry about losing a good 2A. This is something I've wanted since the Midori era because of that reason. But I also wouldn't limit women to just triples in the short either.
I love the combo bonus because a combo is definitely harder then two solo jumps. What I wander is, if a half loop is considered a loop, could a skater do 3s-.5loop-3t as a combination (as their 3 jump combo) and then also do a 2a sequence? Just wishful thinking right?