Re-using old programs

Shen & Zhao and Sasha all re-used old programs at Skate Canada. I thought judges marked down a bit for that, but from what I could tell, they did not. Can someone help me out? What do judges think about old programs? Are they forbidden from judging a program based on how long it's been around?

Skater reuse old programs all the time.

There is no deduction for it, it's perfectly acceptable.

I think what people talk about is the subjective presentation mark. If two skaters both skate very well and the competiton is close, perhaps some judges may give the edge to the one with the newer program justifying it as more fresh and therfore more difficult. It's just gossip, not an actual rule.

Notible successes with reused programs:
S&P Oly gold
S&Z two world titles with same LP
MK winning Oly SP with same program twice
W&S Oly bronze and world title with same LP
K&D Oly gold and world bronze with same LP
Maria world title with old LP
Nancy world bronze and Oly bronze with same LP
the list goes on and on.

How could I forget! Oksana's Oly gold LP that beat out Nancy was the previous years LP which she won worlds with.

Kurt also used his 93 worlds winning LP in Lillehammer, but without the same success because of the SP mistakes.

berthes ghost said:

There is no deduction for it, it's perfectly acceptable.

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ITA!
Yet, only "certain" skaters would be raked over
the coles for doing such.

Yet, only "certain" skaters would be raked over
the coles for doing such. [/B]

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Are you referring to any skater in particular or just in general?

In general I dislike skaters using old programs. I was especially disappointed in how many skaters used old programs in the 2002 Olys - even though I ended up enjoying many of the performances.

The only time I like for a skater to reuse a program from season to season in competition is if 1) it's a *great* program that was never skated to its potential (Yagudin's Gladiator is the one program I wish HAD been reused at Olys!), or 2) if a skater's season is cut short by injury or any other reason, and so only a few people ever even saw it (again to use Yags as an example, if he had stayed eligible I would want him to use the race car SP).

JMHO - obviously using old programs has been a very successful strategy for many skaters, so maybe I'm just a big crab about it

guinevere

I remember when Viktor Petrenko used the same LP from 1990 until 1992. With that program he won:

Silver: Worlds 1990, 1991
Gold: Olympics 1992, Worlds 1992

Of course it helped that it was a great program.

Kurt used the same LP in 1989 and 1990. He won Worlds both years.

I don't mind skaters rehashing old programs if they were quality the first time around. And as far as judging goes, I agree with Berthes Ghost. New and fresh might be a deciding factor in a close competition, but if the skater using the rehashed program is far and above the rest of the field it really doesn't matter. I'm glad Sasha kept "Malaguena". It is the best short she has ever done and fits her personality perfectly. She also never got to perform it to potential at Nationals or Worlds. I was a bit disappointed in Michelle choosing "Rach" again for SLC. It was a phenomenal program, but I thought "East of Eden" was better. And by better, I mean that Michelle seemed to be in a different place with her skating in 2001-2002 and she seemed to really relate and come alive to the music and choreography of "East of Eden". LOL..but, the international judges did seem to be tiring of this program just a bit by the time Skate Canada rolled around.

Others:
Didn't Yuka Sato use the same long program at the 93 and 94 Worlds?
Maria used the same short program in 2000 and 2001

Skaters have different reasons for reskating an old program. Sometimes due to injury, they may not have had time to work on a new program and get it ready in time for an event - such as Skate Canada - it is early in the season. So using a program they are familiar with is not out of the question. Also, skaters are in more competitions now than they used to be so may have two or three programs they are working on. Just because they recycle one program does not mean they are sticking with it the whole season.

BronzeisGolden said:

Didn't Yuka Sato use the same long program at the 93 and 94 Worlds?
Maria used the same short program in 2000 and 2001

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Yes to both.

I remember that at the Olympic Test Event (93 Piruetten) Yuka had a new program. However, it wasn't clear why she went back to the old program. Maybe she felt more comfortable with it.

Maria used Scene d'Amour in 2000 and 2001. I'm sure part of it was that she actually won the SP at 2000 Worlds over both Irina and Michelle.

Both Katarina and Debi used the same programs (West Side Story and a classical mix, respectively) in 86 and 87.

As Ladskater said, skaters have different reasons for using an old program. I think for Shen/Zhao, they said that they lost some training time because of the SARS incident. I would think that's also why they went back to their Olympic SP (which I like) as they didn't have enough time to do a new SP. However, I like Firebird (2000) and Palladio-Diamond Music (2001) better and would have rather seen either of those used again.

I think that sometimes it is a bit disappointing when we see an old program because with so many competitions we see programs a lot more than in the past and the reaction is 'that program again????'. If I recall correctly (from her book), Peggy Fleming actually used her LP for 3 years (including Grenoble). The last time anyone did that (at least that I can remember) was Viktor Petrenko, who won in Albertville with a 3 year old program.

Herm (sk8ngnutt)

I remember that from Peggy's book too. I also remember he talking at the start of a GP event several years back that she skated a new LP at 67 Nats, but that it wasn't well recieved by the judges so she went back to her old LP for worlds.

Another log for the fire: Meno & Sand used the same LP for all 3 of thier world medals. In 96 they said that they were reusing the 95 program because they had been busy getting married. They had a new one for 97 (their worst year results wise - I liked the LP) but reverted to the 95 Nessum Dorma LP for the 98 Oly season. I assumed it was an effort to get back on track.

Elvis used the 1492 LP in 95 and 96.

Like I said, the list goes on and on.

I don't know how I feel about this. I do think it's hilarious when some fans harp on certain skaters for recycling, and then their favorite does the same. I don't care one way or another though. Whatever makes a season more exciting.

***hoping Sarah skates at Nationals***