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Thread: Team Khokhlova/ Novitski no longer exists

  1. #16
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I think you are forgetting Piseev is gone.
    Doesn't matter. Look before EVERYONE had to wait their turn, not just Russians. Now its been established that young teams can move up quickly. Why wouldn't the Russians take note. The federation is going to be under a ton of pressure to deliver medals at the home Olympics. If Fedor and Jana show they can't compete with the North Americans, the federation will promote a team that they think can. Sure they'd like to have Marina and Igor work with young Russian teams, but there is also a feeling of distrust towards them too. Currently Marina and Igor are trying to tell the Russian press that they aren't the most expensive ice dancing coaches around, and that the only reason they haven't been coaching Russians is nobody but Elena Illinykh has asked. Igor coached Elena for awhile.

    And the thing its not in Marina or Igor's best interests to tick of the Russian federation and insisting that Fedor/Jana are no 1 even if they aren't good will do that. The economy in North America isn't the best, and skating is getting immensly popular in Russia and more and more young Russians are taking it up again. The government is also supporting it. There's a reason people like Morosov are moving back and the main doesn't strike me as that patriotic.

    I doubt Marina/Igor would like to move back. But if the talent in Russia got deep again, 10 years from now, they might not might having the opportunity to coach Russian teams.
    Last edited by bekalc; 05-05-2010 at 11:27 AM.

  2. #17
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    I doubt that Skate Canada has any power or leverage over who Marina/Igor take on as students. Fedor was already released by SC some time ago, I believe.

    Also, having Fedor and Jana skating together in Canton could be a negative for V/M (and D/W too).
    In the past couple of years, the working relationship/atmosphere in Canton seems to have been very friendly and productive. Adding this new couple to the mix could introduce drama to the rink, and distract Marina from her top teams. This is her son, after all, so he could become a priority. Plus I can't necessarily see Jana being best friends with Tessa and Meryl.

    I still don't think the partnership will happen, though, or if it does it won't last for long. It would represent a huge and unprecedented commitment from Fedor, plus he just doesn't have sufficient dance background.

  3. #18
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Didn't we hear that Skate Canada released Fedor OK, but that the glitch in the paperwork came at the ISU level ? ( very interesting , given the ISU's new ..rules? proposals ?..designed to prevent member countries from simply importing their whole team.) Even if Fedor still wanted to compete as a single skater ( at 28)..that may now be a dead issue.

    OTOH , the part of ptichka's translation that mentions training ice dance in his off-time could be taken to mean either that he helped to train other ice dancers (at some level), or that he's been training , himself , as an ice dancer...whichever it is , he may well have more expertise in this area than any of us know about.

    I would think both members of the team would be on notice not to rock the boat in Canton , Z/S wouldn't want to jeopardize the good thing they have going for what may not pan out to be more than a novelty couple..

    As doris points out, both these people want to keep skating..Jana doesn't want to have a long lay-off and Fedor... he's been trying to get back in for a few years.. He can't be quite as flighty as he was in the past ,or he wouldn't still be trying

    Re: the tweet _ FL. is a little off the beaten track ( just ask Patrick Chan ) ..a bit further away from prying eyes than Canton . Fedor has been training there.. Shpilband goes for a holiday in Fl ( there are lots of holiday destinations open to him )..and Fedor tweets that he's excited to get to FL to work on choreography ( from a guy who has no country to skate for , as a single )... how likely is it that it's all unrelated ?

    Everyone concerned has said they see possibilities in the arrangement . Jana's made a formal request... it seems most likely the ink is all but dry. We might as well sit back and enjoy this.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by callalily View Post
    I still don't think the partnership will happen, though, or if it does it won't last for long. It would represent a huge and unprecedented commitment from Fedor, plus he just doesn't have sufficient dance background.
    Jana has already made a formal request to Russian fed re: dissolving her partnership with Sergei. But I don't think it will last very long however. Like I said, 2 years at most. But that two years of time will probably be more than enough to suppress the young Russian teams and prevent the from getting enough exposure to be major factor in 2014. Keep in mind after 2006, the Olympic Champions retired, then the team who followed as World Champs, the Bulgarians, also retired / banned / jailed. By 2008, the field was wide open in Ice Dance for the first time in a long time. V/M and D/W's rise to the top of Ice Dance in 2010 was a combination of their personal perseverance, talent, favorable timing, change in the rules (IJS vs. 6.0) and luck. In the upcoming Olympic cycle, an analysis of the competitive environment would show that the 2 years miracle timeline suggested by bekalc is completely unrealistic because several of the factors present during the 2006-2010 period that led to V/M and D/W's rise are absent this time. The top teams have not retired - i.e. the field is not wide open or clear like the last cycle and the teams who retired are more or less inconsequential and for the Russians, there will be a veteran team who will be trying to hold on to their throne as opposed to stepping aside and let the young teams try their best. If no Russian team make it to the World podium by 2012, with 2013 Worlds widely expect to go to Canada, it would probably be too late for the Russians to regroup by 2014. Evgeny Platov's estimate is that it will need about 7~8 years of time from 2010. Hence, anybody who suggested 2 years is enough is, shall we say, completely unrealistic.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by bekalc View Post
    Doesn't matter.
    Pissev got canned and you think that doesn't matter? Do yo have any idea how big this is for the RSF? It's akin to Speedy got canned by the ISU. A lot of partnership changes and program changes in Russia are on hold because of the Pissev situation. There is a lot of uncertainty right now as to what the future holds. Maybe the new head of RSF will take a complete different direction and even prevent formation of K/A? It's possible. But then again, it may follow the old way. The bottom line is nobody knows for sure. I think it would be prudent not to come across as having all the answers already.

  6. #21
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Hold on.. I thought Jana not only requested the dissolution of her partnership with Sergei, but simultaneously, the formation of a partnership with Fedor. I mean, that's what the tapes were for...Wallylutz is right on (IMO) in regard to Piseev's ouster being a big deal..It just remains to be seen if this is a real change or a cosmetic one.

    But again , it's interesting that in Vaitsehovksaya"s ( Sp?) article ,Piseev wasn't mentioned as being among those who were registering approval.( who knows whether he's seen the tapes or not ?Or whether his opinion would hold any sway...) The important names she singled out from the panel were Gorshkov ( head of the ISU technical committee), Tarasova and Ovsiannikov.

    Everything is in flux...but I don't think the RSF would suppress I/K and B/S either...I think they'll allow a certain amount of jockeying for position among their teams in the next year or two ...

  7. #22
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Jana has already made a formal request to Russian fed re: dissolving her partnership with Sergei. But I don't think it will last very long however. Like I said, 2 years at most. But that two years of time will probably be more than enough to suppress the young Russian teams and prevent the from getting enough exposure to be major factor in 2014. Keep in mind after 2006, the Olympic Champions retired, then the team who followed as World Champs, the Bulgarians, also retired / banned / jailed. By 2008, the field was wide open in Ice Dance for the first time in a long time. V/M and D/W's rise to the top of Ice Dance in 2010 was a combination of their personal perseverance, talent, favorable timing, change in the rules (IJS vs. 6.0) and luck. In the upcoming Olympic cycle, an analysis of the competitive environment would show that the 2 years miracle timeline suggested by bekalc is completely unrealistic because several of the factors present during the 2006-2010 period that led to V/M and D/W's rise are absent this time. The top teams have not retired - i.e. the field is not wide open or clear like the last cycle and the teams who retired are more or less inconsequential and for the Russians, there will be a veteran team who will be trying to hold on to their throne as opposed to stepping aside and let the young teams try their best. If no Russian team make it to the World podium by 2012, with 2013 Worlds widely expect to go to Canada, it would probably be too late for the Russians to regroup by 2014. Evgeny Platov's estimate is that it will need about 7~8 years of time from 2010. Hence, anybody who suggested 2 years is enough is, shall we say, completely unrealistic.
    Well I wouldn't call Fedor/Jana a vetern team. They will have to prove themselves. The Russian federation will allow for jockeying. And second by 2014, the European federations will probably be more than happy to let a European dance team in the fold. And honestly, its not like I'm suggesting that I/K or B/S will go from 10 to 1st place in one year I suspect that one of those teams will be in the top 5 in 2012 Nice at Worlds-if not earlier.

    There's nothing vetern about Fedor ice dancing wise, and the Russian federation is hardly going to drop two young teams in favor of a team with an unproven male skater.

  8. #23
    - * - blue_idealist's Avatar
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    This could work, but I dunno. The possibility of Fedor as a partner for Domnina made me laugh though!

  9. #24
    Forum translator Ptichka's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    But again , it's interesting that in Vaitsehovksaya"s ( Sp?) article ,Piseev wasn't mentioned as being among those who were registering approval.( who knows whether he's seen the tapes or not ?Or whether his opinion would hold any sway...) The important names she singled out from the panel were Gorshkov ( head of the ISU technical committee), Tarasova and Ovsiannikov.
    I think she weas just talking about the skating potential of the team - quite apart from the political potential, which is where Piseev would have come in.

  10. #25
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    /\ It wouldn't have been good for his back to be slinging Domnina about.

    Edit :Oops! ptichka, there you are.. point taken re : skating v. politics...I don't know anywhere near enough about the RSF to have an informed opinion , but I wondered if those names might represent a power bloc of the future... a hint of which way the wind is likely to blow...
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 05-05-2010 at 08:32 PM.

  11. #26
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    Another important aspect that hasn't be discussed about the potential Jana + Fedor partnership (I am using their first names b/c her last name is kind of hard to spell) is the funding and prize money. Fedor is raised and grew up in a system where there is no state sponsored funding but where prize money belong almost entirely to the skaters. Jana, on the other hand, is fully expecting the RSF and her government to foot the expensive bill of training with Marina and Igor and pay for her expenses while she lives in the U.S. I don't know how this will play out but the money issue can be a problem. I think Fedor is going to bolt when he sees his hard earned money mostly going to the coffer of some Russian state sponsors while he gets almost nothing. He may be Russian born but he ain't Russian as far as mental preparation as a skater is concerned.

  12. #27
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    wallylutz - the money thing is interesting isn't it ? Someone , somewhere, earlier on, was saying it looked like it was mainly the financial arrangements that were yet to be worked out. And I'm sure many people were thinking that meant how much of a discount Marina and Igor would be willing to give...but there may have to be some kind of different arrangement. maybe it's not all over but the signing..just all over but the haggling..

    Edit: Hmmm..just re-thinking..it seems it would be a bit premature to worry too much about GP winnings..
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 05-06-2010 at 12:59 PM.

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