U.S. Figure skaters announce off-season changes | Page 2 | Golden Skate

U.S. Figure skaters announce off-season changes

Robeye

Final Flight
Joined
Feb 16, 2010
Wow, Kimmie Meissner is still at it. Wonder what the 2.0 version will look like?
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Perhaps. But think of Meissner, Em Hughes and Zhang as counterexamples. Two were supposed to lead us through to this year and the other was supposed to become the next MK. What happened?

sorry I'm so skeptical about all this. I've learned very quickly in my time here not to buy into hype very easily. Only skaters I can think of that actually lived up to it were Mao Asada and to a lesser extent, Miki Ando. I don't remember even Mighty Yuna getting as much hype as these two did and look where she is.

Kostner was hyped around 2004, especially after 2005 when she beat MK. Been a headcase ever since.

Not saying you'll be mistaken but I prefer to wait and see. You never know what can happen.

Yeah but Kimmie has no artistry, I'm sorry, she really just doesn't, and she had even less when she was first starting out, and her flexibility isn't great and her spins average. Plus her edge calls and URs were always there, she was just lucky her success came before the judges started cracking down so hard on edges and under-rotations.

Caroline had awful technique from the getgo, people knew that, she's been getting dinged for edge calls and no speed since the very beginning she just used to be able to make up for it with increased technical difficulty, landing all her jumps, and her spirals and spins.

Emily, IMO, was kind of generic and bland, a bit like Rachael but without as much technical content. She was pretty consistent and had good speed and that's essentially why she did well for herself.

As for Kostner, Gao and/or Zawadzki could turn into headcases in coming years, but right now they both seem like pretty good, reliable competitors. I don't think I have ever seen either girl have a complete meltdown before.

And Yuna did have a lot of hype as a junior, it's just that she was overshadowed a little bit by Mao and her triple axels she was doing at 13-14.
 
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R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003

Silverlake, my point is this: despite the apparent shortcomings of the skaters I mentioned, certain expectations were put on their shoulders, due to either past results, future potential or both. They have fallen short thus far- by running into problems like injuries, setbacks, and/or slumps. And let's not forget Cohen back in 2002, she was expected to win all these titles "if she could just stand up". That day never came. (Although I will say she did very well for herself.)

For Gao and Zawadki, certain expectations are now being put on THEIR shoulders. "Can they be the American skaters who FINALLY rise up to the challenge of Mao and Yuna?" people are basically insinuating. And we can't say "yes they will" or "no they won't". It can be debated how likely that is (which, I suppose, is what off-season banter is for) but that's conversation I'm simply not that interested in, at this point.
 
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Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
All I've been hearing the past couple of months is how great Gao and Zawadki(sp) are and how they'll take over US skating in the coming years- no wait, months.

THE WAIT AND SEE approach cannot be stressed enough...I've seen many come and many go just in the past 8 years. Hyped to the hilt and then fall flat. And at the other end of the spectrum, skaters that come out of nowhere and amaze. I think in the coming season we will still have our current crop of Nagasu, Flatt, Zhang, Wagner, and (I suppose) Czisny. Assuming, of course, they can stay healthy. Everyone else would either be newcomers or old-timers who are long past their prime. But come 2012 who knows.

Well, I agree. All we know for sure is that US skating will be exactly the way it was this year except the highest expectations will be on Nagasu instead of Flatt. She'll have more respect from the international judges, too. Let's hope she deals with it like she did at the Olympics and not at worlds. Nagasu has the potential to be a worlds medalist more than the other U.S. ladies. But fulfilling that potential is another story.

As for Gao, I'm excited about her but I think she needs a transformation like Michelle Kwan's in 1996 to be a world medal contender. Not saying it won't happen this year but we'll just have to wait and see. Judging from the results last year though, she already is a U.S. championship medal threat.

I'm not surprised to hear Alissa is not retiring. Ever since I read that Brian Boitano urged her not to leave competitive skating with any regrets I expected to her to at least keeping training through the summer... I'm glad because I always love watching her. But it's hard to have any expectations. Quite apart from her nerves, I think she'll be at a total disadvantage with the new rules. She'll be able to rely even less on her spins and spirals to compete against much better jumpers. But I"m glad for her that she is not throwing in the towel. Good for her.

If I had to make a very early prediction, I see these three ladies medaling at US championships: Nagasu, Wagner, Gao. Always assuming they skate clean...
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
When you lay it out like that, Layfan, it makes what Michelle did seem even more impressive. She showed up at thirteen, carried the country on her shoulders in Worlds in 1994 when no one else delivered (and several didn't even bother to show up) by skating to I think eighth place and earning us two spots for the following year, kept her place on the podium (often at the top) through thick and thin, persevering for over a decade. Never mind her technique or her artistry; that takes a mental toughness that seems not to be as commonplace as one would hope. (Certainly Tara had it by the bucketful, as well!) If I could wish that trait on anyone, it would certainly be Alyssa!--so we could watch those exquisite spins attached to some jumps as well. And also on Mirai, who seems to have just about everything else going for her. Also on Miki--just because she seems to have so much possibility that we rarely see in competition. I generally don't give up on anyone, because life circumstances will do a fine job of weeding people out without any help from me, but it would be nice to see all our skaters able to perform up to their highest potential.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Well, I agree. All we know for sure is that US skating will be exactly the way it was this year except the highest expectations will be on Nagasu instead of Flatt. She'll have more respect from the international judges, too. Let's hope she deals with it like she did at the Olympics and not at worlds. Nagasu has the potential to be a worlds medalist more than the other U.S. ladies. But fulfilling that potential is another story.

As for Gao, I'm excited about her but I think she needs a transformation like Michelle Kwan's in 1996 to be a world medal contender. Not saying it won't happen this year but we'll just have to wait and see. Judging from the results last year though, she already is a U.S. championship medal threat.

I'm not surprised to hear Alissa is not retiring. Ever since I read that Brian Boitano urged her not to leave competitive skating with any regrets I expected to her to at least keeping training through the summer... I'm glad because I always love watching her. But it's hard to have any expectations. Quite apart from her nerves, I think she'll be at a total disadvantage with the new rules. She'll be able to rely even less on her spins and spirals to compete against much better jumpers. But I"m glad for her that she is not throwing in the towel. Good for her.

If I had to make a very early prediction, I see these three ladies medaling at US championships: Nagasu, Wagner, Gao. Always assuming they skate clean...

Nice post. ITA. The thing new rules will also put Caroline at a disadvantage in addition to Alissa, though I have heard some very promising reports about Caroline recently, who is apparently now doing 3f with no mule kick, 3lo 2a sequences, and even 2a-3t :agree:
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
...though I have heard some very promising reports about Caroline recently, who is apparently now doing 3f with no mule kick, 3lo 2a sequences, and even 2a-3t :agree:

yes but we were told all of that last year, too, IIRC, and yet when the pressure was on...
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
Nice post. ITA. The thing new rules will also put Caroline at a disadvantage in addition to Alissa, though I have heard some very promising reports about Caroline recently, who is apparently now doing 3f with no mule kick, 3lo 2a sequences, and even 2a-3t :agree:

Didn't we hear that last year about Caroline? :rolleye:

But seriously, I hope you're right. If Caroline could fix her speed and mule kick she'd be an astonishingly gorgeous skater, I think most people would agree...

Isn't she also capable of a 3-3 despite her bad technique? So the new rules may not be such a disadvantage for her if she improves. On the other hand, tt's hard to see Alissa pulling a 3-3 out of nowhere. If I were Alissa, I'd focus on the quality of the jumps she does have. Then she could hope for high GOEs, which helped Joannie, for instance.

Come to think of it, the new rules might also put Ashley Wagner at a disadvantage, no? But maybe only on the international stage....
 

miki88

Medalist
Joined
Dec 28, 2009
No, Christina does not remind me of a young Michelle. She lacks the charisma that Michelle already had at that age. Christina has potential but she also has a long way to go.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
yes but we were told all of that last year, too, IIRC, and yet when the pressure was on...

Couldn't have said it better. And as I said on FSU...show me a practice video, or better yet, show me in competition.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
The thing about Gao and Zawadzki:

1.) They aren't headcases like Czisny
2.) They don't have awful technique like Zhang
3.) They aren't as bland and un-artistic as Rachael

That is why they are hyped so much and I tend to think they will live up to the hype. Nagasu and Wagner will still be up there for at least a few more years, but Czisny, Zhang, and Flatt have a lot of things they need to work on, and I actually think Gao and Zawadzki, though juniorish they may be, are more complete skaters than those three.

Anything can happen, but I have to go along with R.D. on this one. Let's wait and see what happens.

Christina Gao is sixteen and Agnes Zawadzki will be sixteen in July. Kimmie Meissner was world champion at sixteen. Mirai Nagasu was U.S. champion at 14. At 13 Caroline Zhang won her junior grand prix events by 53 points and 33 points, won thejunior grand prix final by 20 points, won the junior world championship, and was heralded as the second coming of Sasha Cohen for her positions, spins and spirals.

I think wait and see is all we can say at this point.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Well, I agree. All we know for sure is that US skating will be exactly the way it was this year except the highest expectations will be on Nagasu instead of Flatt. She'll have more respect from the international judges, too. Let's hope she deals with it like she did at the Olympics and not at worlds. Nagasu has the potential to be a worlds medalist more than the other U.S. ladies. But fulfilling that potential is another story.

Exactly. There are shades of hope in Nagasu. She has what it takes in her skating, and she showed signs of mental toughness in 2009 Nats and 2010 Olys. Let's hope the Worlds was just an aberration- an outlier if you will (for the data analysts out there)- and she can get herself back on track. It's not often that mental toughness and true skating talent come hand in hand.

As for Gao, I'm excited about her but I think she needs a transformation like Michelle Kwan's in 1996 to be a world medal contender. Not saying it won't happen this year but we'll just have to wait and see. Judging from the results last year though, she already is a U.S. championship medal threat.

Agreed. You see, I think she has potential but I get the sense she's just a tad bit overhyped (is it her coach?)

I'm not surprised to hear Alissa is not retiring. Ever since I read that Brian Boitano urged her not to leave competitive skating with any regrets I expected to her to at least keeping training through the summer... I'm glad because I always love watching her. But it's hard to have any expectations. Quite apart from her nerves, I think she'll be at a total disadvantage with the new rules. She'll be able to rely even less on her spins and spirals to compete against much better jumpers. But I"m glad for her that she is not throwing in the towel. Good for her.

It was great to see Czisny come out of nowhere and have the skate of her life during 2007 Nats to become the surprise bronze medalist. Her first National medal, and most thought it would be her only one. She usually has good GP results but has never been able to hold it together at Worlds (or Nationals, with the exceptions of 2007 and 2009). Can't see how staying in longer will change that, but more power to her if she wants to continue. It's not always about the medals after all.

If I had to make a very early prediction, I see these three ladies medaling at US championships: Nagasu, Wagner, Gao. Always assuming they skate clean...

Generally I agree, but I would replace Gao with Flatt. Gao, maybe 4th place. She would have been 4th this year if it hadn't been for Cohen's "return" (albeit, a distant 4th).
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Anything can happen, but I have to go along with R.D. on this one. Let's wait and see what happens.

Christina Gao is sixteen and Agnes Zawadzki will be sixteen in July. Kimmie Meissner was world champion at sixteen. Mirai Nagasu was U.S. champion at 14. At 13 Caroline Zhang won her junior grand prix events by 53 points and 33 points, won thejunior grand prix final by 20 points, won the junior world championship, and was heralded as the second coming of Sasha Cohen for her positions, spins and spirals.

I think wait and see is all we can say at this point.

Fair point, but Mirai, Kimmie, and Caroline all dealt with the dreaded puberty monster AFTER those accomplishments, so really Christina and Agnes aren't at a disadvantage because likely their big successes will come after puberty considering they are 16 now and still have work to do. Christina also doesn't have a problematic body type, she is built just like Yuna at that age and will likely end up being built like Yuna now. As for Agnes, the only worry I have is will she get too tall, but I guess she can cross that bridge when and if she comes to it. The other thing, Agnes and Christina have great technique, high jumps, and ALL their jumps are always rotated. Meissner's and Nagasu's jumps have always been cheated they just didn't get dinged for them when they won worlds and nationals, Zhang's technique has always been awful and her flutz has always been a flutz.

You can say what you want, but Kimmie was imploding just one year after she won worlds, Mirai was imploding in the 08-09 season due to her growth spurt, and Caroline imploded this season (save 4CC). The culprit? Growing pains. This is why in some ways Agnes and Christina aren't really at a disadvantage - sure if you're amazing as a 13 year old, 4-foot-8, 70 pound mite then you'll get a lot of hype, but chances are you'll grow half a foot and gain 40 pounds before you stop and then your body is so different that it has to readjust. I mean, Mirai is 17 and she just became a force again recently. In the 08-09 season, she was the same age as Agnes and Christina and was much worse (really, really low GP scores), so technically Mirai's progression in the past year could be compared to a unknown skater the same age who was fairly mediocre and then had a big break aka Agnes or Christina.
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Nagasu was able to bounce back this season. It remains to be seen whether Zhang can do the same next season, or even if Nagasu can keep up the momentum and not let her Worlds slip-up trip her up.

Meissner has had a strain of bad luck lately but honestly I think she is past her prime. Wouldn't mind seeing her put down some skates she is happy with though.

The key for these young up-and comers is to KEEP IMPROVING. Be the best you're capable of and let the chips fall where they may. Unless your name is Mirai Nagasu, keep an eye on that rear-view mirror.
 
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silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
Nagasu was able to bounce back this season. It remains to be seen whether Zhang can do the same next season, or even if Nagasu can keep up the momentum and not let her Worlds slip-up trip her up.

Meissner has had a strain of bad luck lately but I think she is past her prime. Wouldn't mind seeing her put down some skates she is happy with though.

The key for these young up-and comers is to KEEP IMPROVING. Be the best you're capable of and let the chips fall where they may.

KEEP IMPROVING.....I think Agnes and Christina have that down. Agnes didn't even make it to nationals last year and last year Christina was very awkward and gangly and fell a lot, the year before she finished last at nationals in the novice division, and the year before that she was 13th at REGIONALS. So yeah I think both girls are on the right track. Plus Agnes says she is inspired and pushes herself to work harder due to training alongside Rachael Flatt and Christina obviously gets the same drive from skating with Adam and Yuna. Plus I also have the feeling that with Kwak skating at the Cricket Club Christina will be working extra hard, I think having someone her age and approximate ability level to train with will be good and make both girls work harder and become better (hopefully).
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
I wasn't aware that Agnes trained with Rachel Flatt. I knew about Gao and Yuna though. Nothing like having someone better than you around to push you and motivate you.

It was great that NBC took the time to show Gao last year. Even if these skaters DO turn out to be all they're cracked up to be, I don't see it happening next season. Possibly the 2011-12 season at the earliest.

What's more interesting to me is:

Can Nagasu can build upon her stellar season (save Worlds)?

Can Wagner conquer her SP demons?

Can Flatt take it to the next level now with more time/attention to devote to skating?

Will Zhang take the time to try to improve her basics so she can get back in the game?

Will Czisny be able to redeem herself after the crushing defeat at 2010 Nats as the reigning champ?

Will any old-timers (e.g. Meissner, Hughes) try to stick it out at least for another year or two?

That and more, coming up next. Stay tuned.
 
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Tinymavy15

Sinnerman for the win
Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
I wasn't aware that Agnes trained with Rachel Flatt. I knew about Gao and Yuna though. Nothing like having someone better than you around to push you and motivate you.

It was great that NBC took the time to show Gao last year. Even if these skaters DO turn out to be all they're cracked up to be, I don't see it happening next season. Possibly the 2011-12 season at the earliest.

What's more interesting to me is:

Can Nagasu can build upon her stellar season (save Worlds)?
Yes, I think she can. Her growing is over, Frank will continue to push her to work her hardest, she has all that international experience now, she was inspired by Evan yet also had a rough time of it at worlds so we know she won't be resting on her laurels thinking she has conquered her demons

Can Wagner conquer her SP demons?

I hope so. I think she will certainly try. If she is trying to rework her lutz and land 33 combos that might mess with her consistency, especially at the start of the season but the 1/4-1/2 rule will help her.

Can Flatt take it to the next level now with more time/attention to devote to skating?
hmmm. we will wait and see. Racheal's mom said something about looking at coaching possibilities, so maybe she is looking to change coaches and/or move to CA. Honestly I don't see her making leaps and bounds in the PCS section due to her less-than spectacular olympics and worlds (in the judges eyes), and I don't see how flexiblity and toe point can really improve that much in one summer.

Will Zhang take the time to try to improve her basics so she can get back in the game?
If i was a betting girl I would say no. I think she will try and re-work her lutz and try and fully rotate her jumps. She will try and skate faster like she did this past year, but revert back to the slow scared deer when the pressure is on. I think she will improve her jumps but not her skating skills.

Will Czisny be able to redeem herself after the crushing defeat at 2010 Nats as the reigning champ?

No.

Will any old-timers (e.g. Meissner, Hughes) try to stick it out at least for another year or two?

They will try, but i don't see any of them showing up in Greensbourgh

That and more, coming up next. Stay tuned.
my answers are in bold!
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I wasn't aware that Agnes trained with Rachel Flatt. I knew about Gao and Yuna though. Nothing like having someone better than you around to push you and motivate you.
She does and ITA. Agnes said Rachael and Alexe are her best friends at Broadmoor. Gao loves Yuna and despite the age difference they are very good friends. She also tweets a lot to Adam Rippon so he may be another source of inspiration.

It was great that NBC took the time to show Gao last year. Even if these skaters DO turn out to be all they're cracked up to be, I don't see it happening next season. Possibly the 2011-12 season at the earliest.

You may be right. Those two will be making their senior international debuts this season (Agnes maybe not even if she does JGP) so I think this season will be a learning experience for both girls. Further, both Christina and Agnes still have that gangly tween look about them and though I assume most of their vertical growth is over, they likely will fill out over the next season and will need some time to adjust, but the good news is that once they look more grown up they are likely to be taken more seriously by the judges. They both have a lot of potential but we'll need to see how they handle the senior international pressure.

What's more interesting to me is:

Can Nagasu can build upon her stellar season (save Worlds)?

I think so. She is already starting to become so much more mature, both physically and emotionally, that I think next season she will make a splash once again, but this time with more sophisticated programs and packaging. If she can break away from her signature cutesy image and continue skating as well as she has been recently, I think Mirai will be top US lady and an international threat for quite awhile.

Can Wagner conquer her SP demons?

I think there is a good chance. Ashley is VERY motivated and I think just missing Olympics and Worlds has lit a fire in her belly. I think next season with the new rules we'll see Ashley consistently go for the 3-3 and improve her basic skating.

Can Flatt take it to the next level now with more time/attention to devote to skating?

Maybe. I think Flatt is the kind of skater that maybe there's only so much artistry she can develop. I will say though that I found her quite lovely and musical in her younger years when she made her senior debut and won junior worlds, those programs were really nice and suited her well. If she can go back to her old musical self and not focus all her attention on only the jumps, I think she will make progress. Flatt will never be a human pretzel but I think of skater's like Joannie who were mainly jumpers and not very flexible and still managed to become lovely and artistic.

Will Zhang take the time to try to improve her basics so she can get back in the game?

I think she is trying, and I think at the beginning of the season she will look better. When the pressure is on, who knows, but I tend to think at least her speed will be better, and that alone should help her jumps even if the technique stays a bit wonky. She is a good competitor though and I think that will help her.

Will Czisny be able to redeem herself after the crushing defeat at 2010 Nats as the reigning champ?

I'm gonna guess she'll medal at SC, have a solid GP season but just miss the final, and then go back to her usual self at the end of the season. She always seems to do better earlier in the season, and if she manages to make the GPF this year that would be nice for her.

Will any old-timers (e.g. Meissner, Hughes) try to stick it out at least for another year or two?

Hughes I think is done, Kimmie I think just wants to compete for at least one more season before she leaves. I think Kimmie's best years are already behind her but it will be nice to see her skating again. If she can get her URs under control she can likely place respectfully internationally.

That and more, coming up next. Stay tuned.
Can't wait! Also looking forward to Amanda Dobbs, I know she doesn't have all the jumps but she's so pretty and powerful :love:.
 
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