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Thread: Sarah Hughes

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by miki88 View Post
    Yea, but I don't think anyone expected her to win the gold. I still remember when she won, my reaction was like "what?!!!" She skated well, but there was nothing special about it. Of course, seeing OGM slip pass Michelle a second time didn't help either. But I guess I was more tolerant when Tara won, because her performance was much more impressive than Sarah's.
    Oh my goodness, as Tara used to say! There was so much special about Sarah's Oly gold which we've mentioned, speed, technical difficulty, sheer freedom/joy, good spirals, best layback (as good as Sasha's) musicality. She was 16 and on fire! Hughes girls love to compete! Since I can remember the only Oly gold that was not very memorable is Shizuka's. She won as others made so many mistakes. Her clean, lovely performance was not exciting. I guess "cool beauty" is her name for a reason. Beautiful but I barely remember it. It was nice but the weakest one I remember in terms of gold.

    I remember not understanding the scoring, but as for memorable Oly skates, I thought Manley was awesome, and bought Sumners over Witt. And I couldn't get how Petrenko beat Paul Wylie with that awesome LP. I thought Orser beat Boitano. My point is its so subjective but if a skate pops out after years of watching hundreds of performances, well, then, there's usually a lot to recommend it.

    I'm a Shizuka fan but Snooze button!

    As for Vancouver, I thought we had 4 memorable ladies LPs. I think I'll recall Mao most for her incredible jumps. I'll remember the sheer guts and beauty of Rochettes SP and crying with the world as she ached. Not since Katia Gordeeva has a skate touched me so deeply. I'll remember how great Nagasu skated and how freely joyous it was to watch. She skated with seemingly "no pressure." I'm sure she knew the podium was decided before she skated. When she leads, she so far cannot skate with fire and confidence, but I will think of that Oly skate she gave us for as long as she is on the scene. Remarkable given she had to skate after Rochette's flawed but moving LP.

    Kim was all that but she was going to win unless she made big errors. It was lovely but not intense or emotional. That partly was of course her music, the easy footwork, the whole look they give her. And she was so heavily favored it seemed to me a coronation more than a competition. She seemed very free of fear/nerves. Full of confidence she'd score high as that's how it is for her these last couple years. I'm a fan, but I have yet to see her skate with the tension one needs to generate excitement. Funny she loves Michelle who truly attacks and has great tension in her skating. Everything looks so easy for Kim, although it of course is not. Her Gershwin looks deceptively easy. Her LP reminded me of Kulik's LP at Nagano. I know she loves his skating, still.

    But I can imagine the way Koreans experienced every little step! I'll bet there were so many millions on the edge of their seats skating that program like Orser did from the boards. He looked quite wired!

    Sarah was exciting as no one expected her to be that good and fight that hard while looking so joyous. But that was just my 'experience' watching. I expected Slutskaya to be really great. She was the favorite and her LP for me was disappointing. I really hoped the BIG story might be Sasha. Our true ballerina but not the best competitor, sadly.

    I wonder what everyone's most memorable Olympic SP or LP was for "all time." And why?















    Hey, I'll start a thread!

  2. #47
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Sarah was one of the favorites to medal in SLC. I am not sure where you are from - but in USA there was a buzz about here.

    This "little" magazine featured Sarah on the cover of their Olympic preview:

    http://www.coverbrowser.com/image/time/4124-1.jpg


    and they predicted her as the one to beat in their feature skating article about the Ladies event:

    http://www.time.com/time/olympics200...198869,00.html


    And here is how it ended when the skating was over:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fm9ar...eature=related

    At the end of this clip it shows a four year old Sarah saying " I want to to go to the Olympics and win the Gold medal. Maybe that is why she had "no pressure" - because she already knew at age 4 she was going to be an Olympic Champion.
    First of all, what was so great about that Olympics is that the U.S. sent three girls who were ALL GM threats. Sarah didn't have as much buzz and Michelle or Irina but both she and Sasha were certainly considered threats. How great was is that the Americans were 1-3-4 that year? Oh, for those days....

    Oh my goodness, as Tara used to say! There was so much special about Sarah's Oly gold which we've mentioned, speed, technical difficulty, sheer freedom/joy, good spirals, best layback (as good as Sasha's) musicality. She was 16 and on fire! Hughes girls love to compete! Since I can remember the only Oly gold that was not very memorable is Shizuka's. She won as others made so many mistakes. Her clean, lovely performance was not exciting. I guess "cool beauty" is her name for a reason. Beautiful but I barely remember it. It was nice but the weakest one I remember in terms of gold.

    I remember not understanding the scoring, but as for memorable Oly skates, I thought Manley was awesome, and bought Sumners over Witt. And I couldn't get how Petrenko beat Paul Wylie with that awesome LP. I thought Orser beat Boitano. My point is its so subjective but if a skate pops out after years of watching hundreds of performances, well, then, there's usually a lot to recommend it.

    I'm a Shizuka fan but Snooze button!

    As for Vancouver, I thought we had 4 memorable ladies LPs. I think I'll recall Mao most for her incredible jumps. I'll remember the sheer guts and beauty of Rochettes SP and crying with the world as she ached. Not since Katia Gordeeva has a skate touched me so deeply. I'll remember how great Nagasu skated and how freely joyous it was to watch. She skated with seemingly "no pressure." I'm sure she knew the podium was decided before she skated. When she leads, she so far cannot skate with fire and confidence, but I will think of that Oly skate she gave us for as long as she is on the scene. Remarkable given she had to skate after Rochette's flawed but moving LP.

    Kim was all that but she was going to win unless she made big errors. It was lovely but not intense or emotional. That partly was of course her music, the easy footwork, the whole look they give her. And she was so heavily favored it seemed to me a coronation more than a competition. She seemed very free of fear/nerves. Full of confidence she'd score high as that's how it is for her these last couple years. I'm a fan, but I have yet to see her skate with the tension one needs to generate excitement. Funny she loves Michelle who truly attacks and has great tension in her skating. Everything looks so easy for Kim, although it of course is not. Her Gershwin looks deceptively easy. Her LP reminded me of Kulik's LP at Nagano. I know she loves his skating, still.

    But I can imagine the way Koreans experienced every little step! I'll bet there were so many millions on the edge of their seats skating that program like Orser did from the boards. He looked quite wired!

    Sarah was exciting as no one expected her to be that good and fight that hard while looking so joyous. But that was just my 'experience' watching. I expected Slutskaya to be really great. She was the favorite and her LP for me was disappointing. I really hoped the BIG story might be Sasha. Our true ballerina but not the best competitor, sadly.

    I wonder what everyone's most memorable Olympic SP or LP was for "all time." And why?
    Second of all, maybe how memorable Shizuka's skate is depends on where you are from. As much as I think Sarah deserved her win, I don't find her skate nearly as memorable as Tara's or Oksana's or Kristi's or even Sasha's silver medal performances in 2006.
    Sarah was an amazing skater but there is something awkward about her and it's not one of those skates that I feel like watching over and over again. That's just me.
    Even so, her victory was much more memorable to me than Shizuka's. But I suspect it's because I'm American and Sarah was American and her win was huge news that Olympics whereas in 2006 the huge news from the American perspective was that Sasha fell twice in her LP and lost to a Japanese skater.
    I'm sure Shizuka's gold medal victory was HUGELY memorable in Japan, however.
    As for the skates themselves, I remember that Sarah's skate was free and daring but that I found her style a bit awkward. I remember that Shizuka's skate was reserved but very elegant and I remember her gorgeous Ina Bauer and her spiral positions.
    Last edited by Layfan; 05-13-2010 at 12:03 AM.

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Nah, this article was Time magazine's little attempt at trying to find something mildly controversial to say about the Olympics. Time's editorial staff was based in New York and this article was pretty much just smiled upon in the skating world as playing up the "home-town girl nakes good" angle.

    In sober fact, Irina Slutskaya was the Olympic favorite, Time magazine's patriotic flag-waving about an American sweep notwithstanding. Time didn't even assign a sports writer to do the piece. (Alice Park is Time's senior science reporterr. She writes about health and medical news.)

    When Sarah won, Time came up smelling like roses.and got to lord it over all the other prognosticators.
    ITA.

    Also Michelle was a heavy sentimental favorite by many fans.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nadia01 View Post
    ITA.

    Also Michelle was a heavy sentimental favorite by many fans.
    Yes, she was my sentimental favorite too. And if the fans had voted Michelle would have won. But Kwan fans would have been wrong then just as they are wrong now.

    As Time correctly pointed out Sarah had superior ice coverage and bigger, more difficult jumps than Michelle. Sarah beat Irina earlier that season and outskated her again on Olympic ice.

    Time was not simply lucky - they also saw Sarah beat Michelle that season. They knew she had a good chance to win in SLC.

    And how dare Time have a lowly science reporter write about skating! The only thing worse would be letting a math reporter write about skating. Then we probably would have seen a dull column of stats most likely leading to the wrong conclusion

    It is interesting reading so many different opinions.
    Personally, I was and will forever remain disappointed by the outcome in Nagano.
    For me Tara's skating was inferior to Michelle's in every possible way. I thought Michelle had better looking jumps too. Tara did one more trick but no other aspect of her skating seemed as good as Michelle's.

    Imagine if Tim had won Gold in SLC? He did the extra big trick - the third quad neither Russian boy could match. But I think the judges got it right as the rest of Tim's skating was not as good as Plushy or Yags. That is how I felt about Tara's skating in Nagano. It simply and for me obviously was inferior to Michelle's skating.

    In SLC it felt different. I thought Sarah deserved the Gold medal. Her skating that night looked better than irina, Sasha or Michelle.
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-13-2010 at 07:15 AM.

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    A math reporter...I love it! I wish more newspapers and magazines had a math reporter; we'd be better off. I'm glad we have one here at GS!

    Practically every post I've read on every side of this makes so much sense that I finish it and say to myself, "That's the right take on it!" I guess that proves that there's a lot of subjectivity coloring all of our perceptions. And that's a good thing! Just considering 2002, I remember how much I loved that short program of Sasha's--one of her best ever--and I still love it despite the fact that she didn't get a medal to show for it. I still love Michelle's skates even with the fall that cost her everything. Half the time, this winning thing is just superfluous for me.

    Remember how thin skate blades are, and how slippery the ice is. Then there's the matter of gravity! The truth is that there's rarely an overwhelming favorite in the Olympics, even this time, when YuNa was practically voted in ahead of time. (Remember Mao? Triple axel? That Mao? She was there too! Ya never know.) The winner in any competition is the one who won. (Except for Usova and Zhulin, who wazrobbed in 1994....sorry, couldn't resist.)

    Janetfan, I love your point about how Japanese fans might consider Shizuka's free skate a lot more exciting than we might. (Though I was so thrilled to see her rise to the occasion, and of course to see her Ina Bauer, that I did not snooze for an instant while she skated.)

  6. #51
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    In SLC it felt different. I thought Sarah deserved the Gold medal. Her skating that night looked better than irina, Sasha or Michelle.
    I don't think anyone is questioning that. Sometimes underdogs rise to the occasion and outperform the favorites. Most people were surprised at Sarah's victory, but hey, good for her.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    A math reporter...I love it! I wish more newspapers and magazines had a math reporter; we'd be better off. I'm glad we have one here at GS!


    Janetfan, I love your point about how Japanese fans might consider Shizuka's free skate a lot more exciting than we might. (Though I was so thrilled to see her rise to the occasion, and of course to see her Ina Bauer, that I did not snooze for an instant while she skated.)
    More math reporters - and writing about skating (where is the good "eek" smilie when you need it )

    I recently read several novels that have had delightful math puzzles in them. I became familair with Fibonacci through the "DaVinci Code" and "The Girl Who Played With Fire" has a few too:

    x3 + y3 = z3.
    Please don't tell me the answer mathman as I can work on this in my spare time for the rest of my life

    I appreciate any kind words here at GS Olympia - but I believe it was layfan who mentioned Shiz and how she was viewed in Japan vs USA. I also happen to love Shiz

  8. #53
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    That Fibonacci page is the best thing I took away from The DaVinci Code as well, Janetfan! I actually worked out the Golden Ratio from what the author told us there. It's an amazing thought to realize that this ratio of phi (1.6 to 1) is repeated all over the place in nature: sunflowers, pinecones, pineapples, the chambered nautilus.

    I'll have to find out more about x3 + y3 = z3. Sounds a bit like the Pythagorean theorem about the area of certain right triangles, except cubed instead of squared. A music professor friend of mine was very big on the mathematical element in music, which, as you say, I can work on in my spare time for the rest of my life. There are some glorious patterns in the universe, aren't there?

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    That Fibonacci page is the best thing I took away from The DaVinci Code as well, Janetfan! I actually worked out the Golden Ratio from what the author told us there. It's an amazing thought to realize that this ratio of phi (1.6 to 1) is repeated all over the place in nature: sunflowers, pinecones, pineapples, the chambered nautilus.

    I'll have to find out more about x3 + y3 = z3. Sounds a bit like the Pythagorean theorem about the area of certain right triangles, except cubed instead of squared. A music professor friend of mine was very big on the mathematical element in music, which, as you say, I can work on in my spare time for the rest of my life. There are some glorious patterns in the universe, aren't there?
    A while ago we had a Fibomnacci discussion here - and I recall it was Caroline Zhang's "pearl spin" that we decided best showed the golden ratio. Too bad the golden ratio does not equal the Gold medal

    In "The Girl Who Played With Fire" it is mentioned that x2 + y2 = z2 led an amateur French mathematian to playfully come up with the same equation cubed. (Did I say that right?)

    This novel is part of a triology and the third volume comes out May 25. At the end of the second book, the main character sees the answer to this equation in her head. I am sure the next book will have more about it.
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-13-2010 at 08:20 AM.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    I'll have to find out more about x3 + y3 = z3. Sounds a bit like the Pythagorean theorem about the area of certain right triangles, except cubed instead of squared.
    *Ahem* That there is no solution in non-zero integers to this equation was first proved by Leonard Euler in the late eighteenth century. Euler actually gave two proofs. His first proof (by the method of “infinite descent” pioneered by Pierre Fermat a hundred years previously) contained a mistaken assumption about unique factorization in certain extended complex number fields. Efforts at understanding Euler’s mistake led, in the middle of the next century, to the development of ring theory and p-adic number theory in abstract algebra by Ernst Kummer and Richard Dedekind.



    http://fermatslasttheorem.blogspot.c...of-for-n3.html
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-13-2010 at 08:35 AM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    In "The Girl Who Played With Fire" it is mentioned that x2 + y2 = z2 led an amateur French mathematian to playfully come up with the same equation cubed. (Did I say that right?)


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat's_Last_Theorem

    Although -- it is a little misleading to say that Pierre de Fermat was an "amateur." Along with Blaise Pascal, he was the leading mathematical genius of Paris in the seventeenth century and left a substantial legacy down to modern times.

    By profession Fermat was a lawyer and judge. As was the custom of the times, he delighted in composing little mathematical "challenges" and sending them around to his mathematical friends. The famous "Last Theorem," however, was discovered only posthumously, when Fermat's son went over his father's papers. Fermat had written in the margin of his copy of Diophantus' Arithnmetic a little note that said, "I have discovered the most wonderful theorem, but the margin of this book is too narrow for me to write it down here."

    It took three and a half centuries for mathematicians finally to complete the proof of Fermat's conjecture.

    And how dare Time have a lowly science reporter write about skating! The only thing worse would be letting a math reporter write about skating.
    That was kind of my point. Anyone can have an opinion.

    Maybe eight years from now people will be settling arguments about figure skating by saying, "oh yeah? well back in 2010 Mathman wrote..."
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-13-2010 at 08:59 AM.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat's_Last_Theorem

    Although -- it is a little misleading to say that Pierre de Fermat was an "amateur." Along with Blaise Pascal, he was the leading mathematical genius of Paris in the seventeenth century and left a substantial legacy down to modern times.

    By profession Fermat was a lawyer and judge. As was the custom of the times, he delighted in composing little mathematical "challenges" and sending them around to his mathematical friends. The famous "Last Theorem," however, was discovered only posthumously, when Fermat's son went over his father's papers. Fermat had written in the margin of his copy of Diophantus' Arithnmetic a little note that said, "I have discovered the most wonderful theorem, but the margin of this book is too narrow for me to write it down here."

    It took three and a half centuries for mathematicians finally to complete the proof of Fermat's conjecture.

    )
    The definition of "amateur" traditionally was more like this one:

    "A person who engages in an art, science, study, or athletic activity as a pastime rather than as a profession."

    Today it can be used a little differently but as you pointed out Fermat could be considered an amateur without any slight intended using the original definition of amateur.

    I mentioned the equation because I find math becoming more interesting and fun as I grow older.
    Also let's remember I mentioned this from a literary reference and not a journal article.

    Can I ask this - towards the end of the book, "Salander" a math-savant and hacker extraordinaire who puzzled over the cubed version of the equation throughout the book suddenly smiles and sees the point of the equation in her head.

    Using literary license, does that make any sense to you?
    I can't wait for May 25th - to read the final book in this triolgy and part of it is because the math equation is interesting to me. Also, Salander is such a kick-axx character
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-13-2010 at 09:29 AM.

  13. #58
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Can I ask this - towards the end of the book, "Salander" a math-savant and hacker extraordinaire who puzzled over the cubed version of the equation throughout the book suddenly smiles and sees the point of the equation in her head.[/qute]

    Using literary license, does that make any sense to you?
    That makes perfect sense to me, especially if Salander sees herself as a geometer more that an algebraist.

    By an astonishing coincidence -- this is true -- I have just put the finishing touches on a paper titled "Picture proofs of Fermat's Last Theorem," which I hope to publish next year. The point of the paper is that if you have strong enough geometric intuition you can cut to the chase and "see" why certain mathematical results just have to be true.

    This approach to mathematics, by the way, was the hallmark of the mathematics of classical India. A perfect proof in the Indian tradition consists simply of a picture that is so convincingly drawn that the accompanying proof consists of a single Sanskrit word, "Pasya!" (Behold!)

    (I thank Seniorita on this board for helping me get the Greek version right: Óπερ Éδει Δείξαι. )

  14. #59
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Personally, I was and will forever remain disappointed by the outcome in Nagano. .
    yeah that CoP system is crap isn't... letting the wrong girl win.

    oh, wait, that wasn't the CoP. hmmm

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    yeah that CoP system is crap isn't... letting the wrong girl win.

    oh, wait, that wasn't the CoP. hmmm
    The system would not have changed anything since Nagano was driven by politics.

    Oh, you say that is gone?

    D/S winning Bronze in Vancouver felt as politically driven as any judging I can recall from the 6.0 era.

    Some claim Evan's OGM had to be paid back with the bronze for D/S.
    Geez, it is so nice that Speedy's CoP with it's secret judging has rid skating of politics and controversy

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