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Thread: Hersh: Nagasu not on par with Flatt? HUH?

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    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    News Hersh: Nagasu not on par with Flatt? HUH?

    I am trying to figure out how U.S. Figure Skating decided Mirai Nagasu does not belong on the same level as Rachael Flatt in the ``team envelopes'' for the 2010-11 season USFS announced Friday.

    That means Nagasu will get lower funding than Flatt.
    http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/...flatt-huh.html

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    Currently frozen as a popsicle Chemistry66's Avatar
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    As much as it stinks for Mirai to not be one the same Tier as Rachael, Hersh is being a bit harsh. The criteria for the next year's envelopes are decided before the competitve season starts. No one could have known that Mirai would beat Rachael at the Olympics/Worlds, much less be the second Olympic qualifier. Last year, it was predicted Rachael and Caroline, then from Rachael/Ashley/Sasha more at the beginning of the season. The qualifications are set early, and the skaters fall where they fall. The tiers are a new development as of last year, and unfortunately Mirai falls in Team A, but Tier 2 and not 1.

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    Actually, USFS has very specific criteria, unlike Mr. Hersh's baseless accusation (again!) of vagueness:

    Criteria for Envelope A, Tier One:

    * Placements 1st-3rd at the 2010 Olympic Winter Games, or,
    * Placements 1st-3rd at the 2010 World Figure Skating Championships, or
    * Placements 1st-3rd in the ISU World Standings at the conclusion of the 2009-10 season, or
    * 2010 U.S. senior champion combined with a top-10 finish at the 2010 Olympics or a top-10 finish at 2010 World Figure Skating Championships


    Since Nagasu didn't fulfill any of the criteria listed above while Rachael Flatt did, it's only logical that the rules are followed. Besides, Nagasu was rather inconsistent internationally. Sure, she did better than Flatt at Olympics and Worlds but not on the GP Circuit or the Nationals. Plus, Flatt actually beat Nagasu at the Worlds FS where Nagasu managed only 11th. All Mirai had to do was beating Laura Lepisto for the World Bronze but somehow, she failed to do that even after holding the lead in the SP.

    That's why anything Phil Hersh writes needs to be viewed with a grain of salt. After GP and right before the Nationals, Hersh and his friends were ready to hand the Olympic Silver medal to Rachael Flatt. He just seems to jump from place to place without any consistency, depending on what kind of pseudo-controversy he thinks he can dig up and make a story out of nothing.

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    Philip Hersh is stupid. Irrelevant and stupid, a combination worthy of -3 GOE.

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    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    For those of you who have not seen the Team Envelopes for the 2010-11 Season, check out this link:

    http://usfsa.org/Story.asp?id=44590&type=media

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Actually, USFS has very specific criteria, unlike Mr. Hersh's baseless accusation (again!) of vagueness:

    Criteria for Envelope A, Tier One:

    * Placements 1st-3rd at the 2010 Olympic Winter Games, or,
    * Placements 1st-3rd at the 2010 World Figure Skating Championships, or
    * Placements 1st-3rd in the ISU World Standings at the conclusion of the 2009-10 season, or
    * 2010 U.S. senior champion combined with a top-10 finish at the 2010 Olympics or a top-10 finish at 2010 World Figure Skating Championships


    Since Nagasu didn't fulfill any of the criteria listed above while Rachael Flatt did, it's only logical that the rules are followed. Besides, Nagasu was rather inconsistent internationally. Sure, she did better than Flatt at Olympics and Worlds but not on the GP Circuit or the Nationals. Plus, Flatt actually beat Nagasu at the Worlds FS where Nagasu managed only 11th. All Mirai had to do was beating Laura Lepisto for the World Bronze but somehow, she failed to do that even after holding the lead in the SP.

    That's why anything Phil Hersh writes needs to be viewed with a grain of salt. After GP and right before the Nationals, Hersh and his friends were ready to hand the Olympic Silver medal to Rachael Flatt. He just seems to jump from place to place without any consistency, depending on what kind of pseudo-controversy he thinks he can dig up and make a story out of nothing.
    Thanks for your post. I read it and then Hersh. Rules are rules so I agree with you - sort of.
    I see nothing wrong with a columnist/blogger offering an opinion. The opinion expressed by Hersh here makes sense to me.

    If you beat me at a Natl competition but I then beat you at two bigger and more important Intl events that would seem noteworthy.

    Rules are rules and I like it when they are followed. I like when Natls appears to be judged fairly too.
    I like a tech panel that does not single out a skater considered too young and inexperienced for Olympic ice. I happened to enjoy it when this young skater proved them wrong and their favorite was shown to be lacking. What a reversal we saw from the opinions of the judges from Natls and the Olympics.

    You feel it is a big deal that Rachael beat Mirai in the Worlds LP?
    And what you point out about Mirai only having to beat Laura at Worlds is just as true for Rachael. Why single out Mirai for not beating Laura when we all know Rachael did not beat her either. We all know Mirai beat Rachael at Worlds so your point about the LP feels like a half truth to me.

    How about this more fair and accurate assessment: Mirai bombed her LP at Worlds yet still managed to finish ahead of Rachael. Now isn't that what happened and what matters as opposed to what you stated?

    I don't know what the difference in support is between the various funding levels. I don't think it matters as much to Mirai since she has become a rising star in the skating world and is earning money to help support her skating or other future plans.

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    By the rules she's not. He needs to just look at it like the rankings. It doesn't always tell the story of who's better. It happens in figureskating... it happens with tennis. In reality Mirai is very much on par/better than Rachel and if they both skated up to their potential Mirai wins.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    I do not see any reason why Hersh has to disparage one skater to build up another. He could just say, Mirai had a great year, the USFSA should have more flexible criteria so that Mirai could be placed in the top funding bracket as she deserves.

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    I like pie. Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Maybe he's trying out a new rivalry - kinda like how we had with Evan/Johnny, which started out as the Media's rivalry and they joined in... unfortunately. Maybe with a rivalry in the ladies more people will watch.

    not that I'm defending Hersh, I can't stand any of his op-eds.

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I do not see any reason why Hersh has to disparage one skater to build up another. He could just say, Mirai had a great year, the USFSA should have more flexible criteria so that Mirai could be placed in the top funding bracket as she deserves.
    You put that very well.
    I think Hersh, like many journalists sees his role as being something other than being as nice and diplomatic as possible.

    As much as posters here love to criticize him he is one of the few journalists in the USA who writes about skating.

    What was it about Jenny Kirk's writing that some of us liked so much?
    Was it because Jenny went out of her way to be as kind and diplomatic as possible?

    Would we discuss her blog if she had presented a more vanilla view of skating?
    I seriously doubt it.

    Many think Hersh goes too far and is often wrong. I would point out he is making a living and has been doing it for a long time now. Would we better off without Hesrh or any of the journalists who tend to take controversial positions?

    In the USA criticism is permissable and there are laws to protect against excessive statements. Are you suggesting a skater was slandered and could take Hersh to court over what hejust wrote about her?

    I don't think so - possibly in some Euro countries but not here.
    It is always an option to simply ignore a writer who bothers you. Your favorite is apparently not his favorite. Many might agree with you while others might not.

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