Page 2 of 17 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 251

Thread: Hersh: Nagasu not on par with Flatt? HUH?

  1. #16
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    3,193
    But Evan and Jeremy BOTH met the criteria to be A, 1 envelope if you read the criteria. If they had given Johnny A, 1 criteria in addition to the aforementioned skaters and not to Mirai, then he would have a point.

  2. #17
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,538
    Actually, I believe Flatt is criticized/bashed more than other current US skaters around here. Just because people don't like her skating or her looks doesn't mean they don't put in a good word about her educational achievements.

    Compared to Flatt, Nagasu (and Wagner) get away with murder Only Zhang can potentially compete here.

    And yes, Czisny was a major disappointment last year, even if it was somewhat expected. She's cool and all, but no way to sugarcoat that one. Likewise, Nagasu and Flatt at Worlds was a real letdown after both did so well at Olys. The light bulb at the end of the tunnel just blew at that point.

  3. #18
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,192
    I never understood all the Czisny bashing last year, either. Did people think that Alissa skated badly at worlds on purpose just to make us mad?

    Alissa tried her best at Nationals. Yay, she won! She tried her best at Worlds. Oh, she messed up, poor thing. What else is there to say?

  4. #19
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I never understood all the Czisny bashing last year, either. Did people think that Alissa skated badly at worlds on purpose just to make us mad?

    Alissa tried her best at Nationals. Yay, she won! She tried her best at Worlds. Oh, she messed up, poor thing. What else is there to say?
    This.......................

    I remember the heat being on Alissa last year. I also recall it only died down after Sasha announced her comeback. Then several of the most persistent Alissa bashers had a new target and gave Sasha a bashing that makes remarks about Flatt seem like high praise.

    So let's be honest about this. Sasha, with barely a peep from the moderator's took more bashing on a daily basis than Rachael has in the last year.

    Rachael, IMO has a long, long way to go before she can begin to threaten Sasha's title as the GS "whipping girl."
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-11-2010 at 02:39 PM.

  5. #20
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,538
    come on now. Cohen is NOT the "GS whipping girl" right now. Maybe she was back in 2004, but not in 2010. The target now (besides the stupid Kim/Asada fan wars) is... yes, you guessed it, Rachel Flatt. Even Hersh has jumped on that train. At least the Emily Hughes bashing has died down considerably. Same with the Czisny bashing but that was only frustration being vented out over not having 3 US Oly spots (IMO)

    Nobody dares to pick on Nagasu even though she bombed possibly harder than Alyssa did in 2009. Somehow Mirai is off the hook, cut slack, given a break that Czisny didn't enjoy. Once again I think it was because OLY spots were on the line, but if someone has an alternate explanation, go for it. And I don't remember much criticism of Wagner in 2008...yet people defended Meissner so vigorously...sometimes I wonder about skatng forums.
    Last edited by R.D.; 05-11-2010 at 04:19 PM.

  6. #21
    Rooting for the divas with Kwanford Spun Silver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    4,880
    I don't understand why skaters shouldn't be compared. It is a competitive sport, after all. And the fact that it is a judged sport means scores, placements, and yes, funding levels, will be controversial and discussed.

    Janetfan is right. Sasha has been a whipping girl on this board at least since 2006 (as long as I've been around) and the criticism of Rachael doesn't begin to approach the nastiness and character attacks that were directed at Sasha without the mods' intervention.

    She may become a more artistic skater this season when she can focus exclusively on skating, but as of now she has not won many hearts. She's a strong jumper but most people want more and many -- including, apparently, the international judges -- think they've found it in Mirai. Rachael has a lot to work on. Maybe a rivalry with Mirai ... and, I hope, Ashley... is just what she needs to push her to higher levels of artistry and personality.

  7. #22
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    221
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    That was kind of my point. I note that in your explanation of the "loud and clear point" of Hersh's post, you did not mention the name "Rachael."
    Why should I mention the name "Rachael" in every sentence of a short post, and why should you feel the need to chastise me? My point is, Phil did not denigrate Rachael, but questioned USFS criteria. The header indicates his issue is with the two (Mirai and Rachael) not being "on par." The bottom section of the post states both deserve top tier. I just didn't interpret this as a knock on Rachael.

  8. #23
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,192
    Same with the Czisny bashing but that was only frustration being vented out over not having 3 US Oly spots (IMO)
    I think you are right about that. Like Sara Lee cupcakes, "nobody doesn't like 'Lissa C." She's pretty, she's nice, you can't stay mad at her for long.

    I think the criticism that Sasha faced last year was mainly scepticism about whether she was really serious about a comback. When she withdrew from both of her Grand Prix events, the naysayers got to say "I told you so."

    But Sasha totally crushed all opposition and made us look like fools when she not only showed up at Nationals, but skated a thrilling, heart-warming SP to the thunderous applaus of an astonished and appreciative nation. She couldn't quite keep up the momentum in the LP, but the short was Sasha's, "In your face, suckers" moment.

  9. #24
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3,083
    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think you are right about that. Like Sara Lee cupcakes, "nobody doesn't like 'Lissa C." She's pretty, she's nice, you can't stay mad at her for long.

    I think the criticism that Sasha faced last year was mainly scepticism about whether she was really serious about a comback. When she withdrew from both of her Grand Prix events, the naysayers got to say "I told you so."

    But Sasha totally crushed all opposition and made us look like fools when she not only showed up at Nationals, but skated a thrilling, heart-warming SP to the thunderous applaus of an astonished and appreciative nation. She couldn't quite keep up the momentum in the LP, but the short was Sasha's, "In your face, suckers" moment.
    I don't know, I still think that Sasha didn't take her return seriously enough. Ie if she had started training earlier, I think she would have had a better shot at making it. And I don't think the issues people were having were really about Alissa, but more anger at the judging at US Nationals. And I don't recall anyone arguing sadness for Rachael last year, when Alissa had higher funding then her. Maybe the criteria should be a little bit laxier for top tier funding, and the rules should be that someone who medals at US nationals and places top 5 at worlds/Olympics should get the funding.

  10. #25
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,192
    Quote Originally Posted by nylynnr View Post
    Why should I mention the name "Rachael" in every sentence of a short post, and why should you feel the need to chastise me?
    I was "chastising" Hersh, not you. You wrote what Hersh ought to have, that the USFS criteria are faulty. You correctly did not mention Rachael to make this point, and Hersh need not have done so either.

    What I was trying to say -- and I thought that your short synopsis of Hersh's main point supported my view -- was that an article raising questions about USFS policy should not feature a bold headline that makes it seem like he is putting down a particular skater.

    My point is, Phil did not denigrate Rachael, but questioned USFS criteria. The header indicates his issue is with the two (Mirai and Rachael) not being "on par." The bottom section of the post states both deserve top tier. I just didn't interpret this as a knock on Rachael.
    I guess so. After reading the Hersh article more closely, it does not seem so bad as I thought at first. I still dont like that big HUH? right after Rachael's name, though.

    Why is everyone so touchy today?
    Last edited by Mathman; 05-11-2010 at 04:15 PM.

  11. #26
    Custom Title
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Texas, United States
    Posts
    4,957
    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    come on now. Cohen is NOT the "GS whipping girl" right now. Maybe she was back in 2004, but not in 2010. The target now (besides the stupid Kim/Asada fan wars) is... yes, you guessed it, Rachel Flatt. Even Hersh has jumped on that train. At least the Emily Hughes bashing has died down considerably. Same with the Czisny bashing but that was only frustration being vented out over not having 3 US Oly spots (IMO)

    Nobody would dare pick on Nagasu even though she bombed possibly harder than Alyssa did in 2009. Somehow Mirai is off the hook, cut slack, given a break that Czisny didn't enjoy. Once again I think it was because OLY spots were on the line, but if someone has an alternate explanation, go for it. And I don't remember much criticism of Wagner in 2008...yet people defended Meissner so vigorously...sometimes I wonder about skatng forums.
    I think part of the Alissa bashing last year was because the judges let her win US nationals and then sent her to Worlds where we all knew she would bomb. If the judging had been fair at nationals, Rachael would have won, Caroline would have been second, and Alissa would have been third and Caroline and Rachael would have gone to Worlds and likely gotten the US 3 spots for the Olympics. Even if Alissa had just been 2nd, the Worlds spot could have arguably been given to someone else.


    Also, all this Mirai bombed worse than Czisny crap, are people still forgetting that Mirai BEAT RACHAEL at Worlds. Last year at Worlds Czisny had a meltdown of a SP and a mediocre LP while this year Mirai had a spectacular, 1st place SP and a mediocre LP. Plus, 7th is much better than 11th and her total score was a whopping 15 points higher than Czisny's score last year and would have put her in 5th place in last year's results. So I mean, considering Mirai was the higher placing finisher at Worlds, if people want to blame someone for not having 3 spots next year, shouldn't they blame Rachael because she finished lower than Mirai? I just don't understand this. Rachael had mistakes too, her mediocre SP and mediocre LP together proved to be more costly than Mirai's great SP and even more mediocre LP. This year, I don't think many people are that mad, because it's not an Olympic year and the spots aren't a huge deal and also Mirai and Rachael were only a few points off getting 3 spot placement and were pretty close point wise to even medaling.

  12. #27
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    28,192
    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    ...if people want to blame someone for not having 3 spots next year, shouldn't they blame Rachael because she finished lower than Mirai? I just don't understand this... I don't think many people are that mad...
    It is the "blaming" and "getting mad" part that I don't get. Give it your best shot. that's all you can do.

  13. #28
    Down With It
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    13,538
    But at the end of the day, we're still stuck with only two ladies' spots. Doesn't matter how close they might have been. That's the point. And I don't think any one skater in particular is to blame or should be blamed. The US ladies in general are just mediocre nowadays, a shadow of what they used to be. I await the day when they can regain that glory.

    But Zhang 2nd at 2009 Nats?? I couldn't have read that right...
    Last edited by R.D.; 05-11-2010 at 04:44 PM.

  14. #29
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    But at the end of the day, we're still stuck with only two ladies' spots. Doesn't matter how close they might have been. That's the point. And I don't think any one skater in particular is to blame or should be blamed. The US ladies in general are just mediocre nowadays, a shadow of what they used to be. I await the day when they can regain that glory.

    But Zhang 2nd at 2009 Nats?? I couldn't have read that right...
    Short memory RD....

    Caroline beat Rachael at 4CC and WTT last season. She competed against Rachael twice in front of Intl judges and beat her both times.

    Sorry if this post is taken as "Rachael bashing" and I am just stating the facts.

  15. #30
    Custom Title bekalc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    3,083
    It is the "blaming" and "getting mad" part that I don't get. Give it your best shot. that's all you can do.
    Well I was pretty angry last year but it wasn't about blaming Alissa. I was more mad because I felt like Alissa was held up at Nationals over Flatt and Zhang, and I didn't get the point behind that. If Alissa had skated well at Nationals, I would have had no problem with Alissa being on the world team "come what may". But I did have a big problem with the USFSA holding up a skater who was notoriously inconsistent, in order to send her to the Olympic qualifier.

    However it was never about Alissa, because I'm sure she tried her best. I was just frustrated because I felt Zhang and Flatt showed at Nationals that year that they were our best possible team for worlds, and it was frustrating to realize we weren't sending our best possible team..

    This year Flatt and Nagasu were clearly our two best, and so the results are essentially the results. Its ridiculous to "blame the athletes who do their best." I think people were just more angry about what went down at Nationals which was never Alissa's fault.

    Short memory RD....

    Caroline beat Rachael at 4CC and WTT last season. She competed against Rachael twice in front of Intl judges and beat her both times.

    Sorry if this post is taken as "Rachael bashing" and I am just stating the facts.
    That was after Nationals though. Going into Nationals, Rachael did better on the GP circuit than Caroline did, and in their last international meet Junior Worlds, Flatt beat her. Carolina got a lot of downgrades in the GP circuit that season, I think if she had done better on the GP that year that the team would have been Flatt/Zhang.
    Last edited by bekalc; 05-11-2010 at 05:30 PM.

Page 2 of 17 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •