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Thread: Hersh: Nagasu not on par with Flatt? HUH?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Too bad she wasn't able to do what Meissner did in 2006, but seems like she (MN) saved that skate for when it counted most (Olys).
    Actually I´m glad that Nagasu did not repeat what Meissner did in 2006 WC, much better for her to rise slowly and steadily up to her goals, improving her technic and to become a really strong competitor.
    Last edited by Jaana; 05-13-2010 at 03:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Actually I´m glad that Nagasu did not repeat what Meissner did in 2006 WC, much better for her to rise slowly and steadily up to her goals, improving her technic and to become a really strong competitor.
    I don't know anyone who thought Mirai would pull a "Kimmie" and win Worlds this season. It was a much stronger field and I think after the Olympics many had hopes that Mirai would pull a 2007 "Yuna" - and win the bronze.

    With a decent LP she would have. I certainly hope it will be a learning experience because medals lost can't ever be regained.
    If Mirai were to medal at Worlds next season she would still be missing the medal she let slip away at 2010 worlds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    "The crowd was merely perplexed, and the air went out of the building when the results were announced. You might say the judging left everyone but the winner feeling a little bit Flatt."

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...5304/index.htm
    This is one of those rare cases where the CoP and the 6.0 System work differently. (I usually find that the end result of the two systems are the same.)

    Mirai would have won under the 6.0 system but the CoP went for the points.

    Imo, the CoP is good as a nitty gritty sport determinant but the 6.0 system has more of the essence of Figure Skating. The CoP does not capture the 'Finished' look of a Senior skater. However, the CoP does show Juveniles, Novices the work which leads to a great Senior.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Actually, she got downgraded on 3 jumps...
    My complaint was not that the tech panel was incorrect in penalizing Mirai's faulty jumps. My complaint is that under the CoP figure skating is becoming a sport that is of interest only to experts and insiders, and the general public is more and more being turned away.

    Under 6.0 judging, I, as an average fan, could easily form a well-reasoned opinion about which skater's performance I liked the best. Sometimes the expert judges agreed, sometimes they didn't, and sometimes the judges panel was split, with some judges agreeing with me and some holding a different opinion.

    Now, I am not really permitted to have an opinion at all. I may think that Mirai skated great, but here come the protocols the next day saying, oh you silly person, Mirai didn't skate well at all; you are just showing your ignorance of skating if you think she did.

    Well...OK. Bye.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    My complaint was not that the tech panel was incorrect in penalizing Mirai's faulty jumps. My complaint is that under the CoP figure skating is becoming a sport that is of interest only to experts and insiders, and the general public is more and more being turned away.

    Under 6.0 judging, I, as an average fan, could easily form a well-reasoned opinion about which skater's performance I liked the best. Sometimes the expert judges agreed, sometimes they didn't, and sometimes the judges panel was split, with some judges agreeing with me and some holding a different opinion.

    Now, I am not really permitted to have an opinion at all. I may think that Mirai skated great, but here come the protocols the next day saying, oh you silly person, Mirai didn't skate well at all; you are just showing your ignorance of skating if you think she did.

    Well...OK. Bye.
    If the Mathman says this, it's really a deep problem. After all, you GET the math. And I completely agree with your point about how the CoP puts a barrier between the skaters and the audience. Most of us will stay with skating because our love for it is so deep even when we don't understand the results. But it will indeed drive potential fans away, because fandom starts looking like something they have to be qualified for. You can't say this often enough.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    post #60
    it's definitely possible, but I'd wait another 2-3 years before declaring that Nagasu can't deliver. She's only 16 after all, 17 by next season. Yes, Worlds this year was a red flag but we must see how she handles such a situation in the future. Unlike Cohen she has done clean LPs in her career. That alone is enough IMO to invalidate any comparison between the two. And personally I think she should have been Nats champ this year.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I don't know anyone who thought Mirai would pull a "Kimmie" and win Worlds this season.
    I was hoping.

    On the Sarah Hughes thread I was struck by the similarity between Rachael and Sarah, in terms of public impression. Nice kid, smart, has a bright future outside of skating, steady competitor -- she'll do until someone more interesting comes along. The "more interesting" lades were Sasha and now Mirai.

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    Yeah...but their careers on the ice couldn't be more different. Big Hughes at her best was a world-class competitor (at the time). Flatt at her best is just...well...um, yeah.
    One thing they do have in common is solid mental toughness- you almost never see them fall apart in competition.

    Flatt didn't win Olys and she has a Nats championship...
    Last edited by R.D.; 05-13-2010 at 08:27 AM.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I was hoping.

    On the Sarah Hughes thread I was struck by the similarity between Rachael and Sarah, in terms of public impression. Nice kid, smart, has a bright future outside of skating, steady competitor -- she'll do until someone more interesting comes along. The "more interesting" lades were Sasha and now Mirai.
    Oh for Pete's sake? Where was Rachael on the cover of Time magazine?
    Very little was said about Rachael leading into Vancouver. Is it because so many thought she was not the deserving champion?

    Maybe because skating popularity has dropped quite a bit in USA since the 2002 scandal and the introduction of the CoP.

    Here is where it stands in my family: I would have given Dai the OGM. My mom can't stand Evan and thinks Plushy wuz robbed. My sister said rachael is the least accomplished US Lady champion she ever saw and did not care much about watching the Olympics after the results at Natls.

    My sister skated alot when she was young, took dance classes and doesn't buy into CoP scoring and thinks it is ruining the aesthetic appeal of skating. She said of Rachael "she skates with as much finesse as a truck driver."

    Like many former skating fans she has stopped watching.
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-13-2010 at 08:40 AM.

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    There was little buzz in general re. the US ladies. Instead, the focus was on other sports (skiing, snowboarding). Also, the night of the women's skating event wasn't the most-watched like it usually is. (part of the reason being how late it was on, but still).

    I think TPTB were just DYING for Cohen to qualify. When she didn't it was almost like a big who cares to them.

  11. #71
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    Yeah...but their careers on the ice couldn't be more different. Big Hughes at her best was a world-class competitor (at the time). Flatt at her best is just...well...um, yeah.

    One thing they do have in common is solid mental toughness- you almost never see them fall apart in competition.
    The thing that Rachael and Sarah have in common, in my opinion, is that they both are "girl next door" types, as opposed to red carpet Hollywood glamor girls or attention-grabbing divas.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.D. View Post
    I think TPTB were just DYING for Cohen to qualify. When she didn't it was almost like a big who cares to them.
    The best reason I have heard so far to adopt mathman's "newjump."

    There are millions of fans/potential fans who don't give a darn about a flutz.
    Or an invisible UR.

    What a dilemma for the ISU. For now they will simply have to tighten their belts until they can figure out a way to get back the millions of US TV dollars they have lost.

    Did we ever come up with a better name than "newjump"?
    Last edited by janetfan; 05-13-2010 at 09:31 AM.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post

    Like many former skating fans she has stopped watching.
    a lot of "fans" stopped watching when Michelle Kwan quit skating here in the US. I think that's when the real exodus occurred...

    as for CoP there are a lot of skaters who also love the concept. so it's not that cut and dry.

    I think there are some people who were looking for any excuse not to the love the sport anymore. It's still skating be it 6.0 or CoP... we're just all a bunch of wanna be dramaqueens who watch a sport filled with dramaqueens... so yeah everything is so horrible.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    as for CoP there are a lot of skaters who also love the concept. so it's not that cut and dry.
    I think that is the dilemma right there. The skaters like the CoP, the coaches like the CoP, the judges like the CoP, Mr. Cinquanta likes the CoP.

    Who is missing from the CoP love-in? The fans.

    It's still skating be it 6.0 or CoP... we're just all a bunch of wanna be dramaqueens who watch a sport filled with dramaqueens... so yeah everything is so horrible.
    To me, it seems harder to make an emotional commitment. My reaction at the end of a skate used to be YAY!!!! or Awwww. Now it is, well, let's wait for the tech guys to view the slo-motion so I can decide how I am supposed to feel. (JMO.)

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    To me, it seems harder to make an emotional commitment. My reaction at the end of a skate used to be YAY!!!! or Awwww. Now it is, well, let's wait for the tech guys to view the slo-motion so I can decide how I am supposed to feel. (JMO.)
    but is that CoP doing that to you, or you doing that to yourself. People - including me - balked at the CHANGE... then those that were excited about the mathmatics end of it started talking it up (as I recall you were excited about it at first?). Then as they tweak it more and more people get frustrated because it feels like it's taking 'so long' we're so used to instant gratification that we don't like the waiting, be it for the scores, the standings, the protocols, or for the judges to get it right.

    Interestingly enough we're not arguing more or less over who should have won, and it still boils down to 'my favorite didn't win so I'm gonna cry the wuzrobbed song.'

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