No more Euros and 4CC before Olys!! | Page 2 | Golden Skate

No more Euros and 4CC before Olys!!

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I seem to be one of the only ones who actually likes this idea. Most of the top-tier skaters don't show up to 4CCs anyway in an Olympic year. The only negative to this was that 4CCs was a good competition for second-tier competitors who didn't quite make the Olympics, but maybe another competition could be held for them. You could also see the exhaustion skaters experienced after doing Euros, Olympics and Worlds plus their own national championships. ex. Denis Ten, who did all these plus Jr. Worlds.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
From a logistic standpoint, this proposal could be problematic for the US and Canada who typically have their Nationals in the 2nd to 3rd week of January whereas most European and Japanese Nationals take place in December of the previous year.

This proposal is not without merit but I don't imagine the U.S. and Canada would like this idea that would make it very difficult for them to hold Nationals in January.
 

tommyk75

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Personally, I'd like to see the Worlds not held in Olympic years. They just don't seem to matter too much when compared to the Olympics, especially when many stars (understandably) choose not to compete.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
This placing the Worlds before the Olys is: 1. sensible. it would build up steam for the Olys which, unfortunately is more revered than Worlds by the majority of skaters and fans. 2. Oly buildup which it needs for attracting more interest in figure skating by gathering more media attention with or without a US Starlet.

How much will it interfere with various Nationals if the placing is more of a substitution rather than a radical change? Euros in January does not affect the Northeat I have also been to US Nats running around during intermissions to find results of Euros. They will not put Worlds in January, but where the Olys have always been - in February and they wil put the Olys where Worlds were in March.
However winter sports in March are iffy all around the worlds. BIG QUESTION; Will the OIC agree to this? there is the necessity of lots of snow.

The suggestion that the Worlds be dropped should also be considered if this proposal is to be taken up seriously.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
The IOC ALWAYS has the Olympics in February. This will not change as ISU has very limited pull within the IOC. France will get a lot of blow back from North America and probably Asia too. If Worlds would fall where Euros/4C is normally, it cuts into NA Nationals AND it causes issues for those needing to travel 12+ hours (Worlds in Asia for NA skaters, Worlds in NA for Asian skaters) and the lost training time as that woud be the peak time based on the training periodization table most coaches follow/preach and it's VERY difficult to peak 2X in a 4-5 week period. A lot of skaters would STILL refuse Worlds to prepare for the Olys.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Then the US and Canada would have to move their championships back into mid December (both to allow skaters to rest between Nationals, Worlds & Olympics, and to avoid a major championship in the Christmas/New Year's holiday season--but that would not necessarily be a bad thing.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Then the US and Canada would have to move their championships back into mid December (both to allow skaters to rest between Nationals, Worlds & Olympics, and to avoid a major championship in the Christmas/New Year's holiday season--but that would not necessarily be a bad thing.

And sectionals/regionals would need to be pushed back earlier as well, wouldn't they? I mean, Canada and the USA have their Nationals late because of those competitions, don't they? Or do all countries have those types of competitions, and if so, how do they work?
 

gkelly

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Then the US and Canada would have to move their championships back into mid December (both to allow skaters to rest between Nationals, Worlds & Olympics, and to avoid a major championship in the Christmas/New Year's holiday season--but that would not necessarily be a bad thing.

And sectionals/regionals would need to be pushed back earlier as well, wouldn't they? I mean, Canada and the USA have their Nationals late because of those competitions, don't they? Or do all countries have those types of competitions, and if so, how do they work?

Japan has at least one round of qualifiers. It all depends on the size of the field.

In theory it would be possible for the US to do regionals in October, sectionals in November, and Nationals in December. That would be a lot of competitions in a short period of time for the singles skaters, novice through senior, who have to go through the whole qualifying process.

Regionals can't really be moved much earlier because the kids have to get settled back into their school year first.

At the other end of the spectrum, it would also present a problem for skaters who qualify for the GP final (junior or senior). That has been a conflict or tight turnaround with French Nationals in the past.

So I suppose it would mean not only eliminating continental championships and some countries having to reschedule their Nationals in Olympic years, but also eliminating the series finals. Or moving both series much earlier in the summer/fall, or delaying the finals until after the Olympics which would likely also lead to no-shows from some of the senior qualifiers.

The simplest solution is just to leave things the way they are and accept that the senior ISU championships may have a somewhat weaker field in Olympic years.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Then the US and Canada would have to move their championships back into mid December (both to allow skaters to rest between Nationals, Worlds & Olympics, and to avoid a major championship in the Christmas/New Year's holiday season--but that would not necessarily be a bad thing.
US Nats is in January. No need to change that. The plan as I read it would move Worlds to February and the Olys to March
Resting would be the same as it has been for years past. Nothing has to move backwards. Those holidays are safe for Disson.

I'm ok with the proposal but the ISU must convince the OIC that it is in the best interest (hype and money) for both the OIC as well as the ISU. Personally I don't think the OIC will buy it. I agree with MM that the proposal will be dropped, although I do imagine it could give a big boost to Worlds and Olys mediawise which is sorely needed.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Joesitz said:
The plan as I read it would move Worlds to February and the Olys to March

I don't see how the ISU can just up and declare that henceforth the Olympics will be in March for the convenience of ISU championships. Don't other sports, like skiing, etc., have a say in the matter? Does the International Olympic Committee get to voice an opinion?
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Japan has at least one round of qualifiers. It all depends on the size of the field.

In theory it would be possible for the US to do regionals in October, sectionals in November, and Nationals in December. That would be a lot of competitions in a short period of time for the singles skaters, novice through senior, who have to go through the whole qualifying process.

Regionals can't really be moved much earlier because the kids have to get settled back into their school year first.

At the other end of the spectrum, it would also present a problem for skaters who qualify for the GP final (junior or senior). That has been a conflict or tight turnaround with French Nationals in the past.

So I suppose it would mean not only eliminating continental championships and some countries having to reschedule their Nationals in Olympic years, but also eliminating the series finals. Or moving both series much earlier in the summer/fall, or delaying the finals until after the Olympics which would likely also lead to no-shows from some of the senior qualifiers.

The simplest solution is just to leave things the way they are and accept that the senior ISU championships may have a somewhat weaker field in Olympic years.

This proposal coming from France isn't surprising from their perspective because they don't have an as extensive qualification process as some other countries have to go through for their national competition. However, logistically, it comes across as a nightmare.

Another issue with moving U.S. Nationals to mid-December, in addition to possible conflict with GPF, is network coverage. U.S. Nationals in 2010 had to be split on two separate weekends for senior competitions due to the TV network's being unwilling to broadcast during weekdays. So you can't just move the Nationals to mid-December and not to expect issues from other stakeholders. Plus, what would happen to the attendance number? Japan typically have their Nationals around Christmas because it fits their cultural sensibility but it would not be possible for the U.S. to do that because no one would attend.

As for moving the Olympics to March, that's just beyond ridiculous. The International Olympic Committee (IOC) does not take order from the ISU. This is not something the ISU can decide, when or where the Olympics will happen. Whoever suggests that the IOC will just move the Games to March in order to accommodate the ISU is just plain naive and obviously doesn't understand this sport or the Olympic Games.
 
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seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Me i dont understand whats the problem. In Euros the attendance is usually fine even in Oly year, the 4CC competition faces the problem of the location that they need to figure out anyway regardless of Oly year and just in the olympic season it gets more intense. Finally the non attendance of the medalists at Worlds, I dont see the fuss. If athletes feel like going they do, othewise they have the right to withdraw. Also this year a lot more than I expected appeared at Worlds and it was great event.
In any case if the medalists of Olys dont show up, this doesnt make it a B event, the skaters to enjoy are not just the top 3 in every Olys.
 

mskater93

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 22, 2005
ISU doesn't have enough pull in the IOC to push through that kind of change. France is blowing smoke, clearly.
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Me i dont understand whats the problem. In Euros the attendance is usually fine even in Oly year, the 4CC competition faces the problem of the location that they need to figure out anyway regardless of Oly year and just in the olympic season it gets more intense. Finally the non attendance of the medalists at Worlds, I dont see the fuss. If athletes feel like going they do, othewise they have the right to withdraw. Also this year a lot more than I expected appeared at Worlds and it was great event.
In any case if the medalists of Olys dont show up, this doesnt make it a B event, the skaters to enjoy are not just the top 3 in every Olys.

The problem is that in an Olympic year, 4CC's and US Nationals overlapped, and almost overlapped with Canadian Nationals. As a result, usually the US & Canadian B teams go to 4CC's. The location is just an added complication, the timing is the key issue.
 
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