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Thread: The Kween and the Queen

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    The Kween and the Queen

    How do you compare their skating? Michelle did not win Gold at Oly but I find her to have been as complete a skater as she would ever be at 19. Will Kim eclipse Kwan? What similarities do you see between the two? I was just wondering how people see these two very popular phenomenons in FS. I read about what a superstar Kim is in Korea and see how her fans have, acc. to one GS poster "rule the internet" at present.

    What is her stardom in Korea comparable to? What celebrity or personality does Kim compare to in terms of influence, earnings, etc. I have a hard time trying to picture it and a visit to this lovely Asian gem of a country is not in my budget. I also wonder if anyone has links to where she lives in Korea. Is there a "Hollywood" type place where the stars live? Just Curious as to the reality behind the hype...

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    Gadfly and Bon Vivant Mafke's Avatar
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    Based on the quality of her 'body of work' performances at nationals and worlds and olympics, Kwan is an alltime great (and her not winning oly gold makes me think less of the olympics than of her).

    Kim is probably the best overall singles skater in the world at present or at least the one who best uses CoP, getting maximum points from her strengths and not letting her weaknesses drag her down. It's way too early to make a final judgement of her since her career is (hopefully) far from over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafke View Post
    Based on the quality of her 'body of work' performances at nationals and worlds and olympics, Kwan is an alltime great (and her not winning oly gold makes me think less of the olympics than of her).
    I completely agree! Kwan's achievements will keep her among the all-time greats for decades to come. Further than that I can't go: I can't compare her to anyone else, because skating has such individuality (unlike a sport like track or skiing) that you can't really rank skaters in a meaningful way--that is, you can't rank them without disregarding some really important elements of their skating. Example: Janet Lynn never won a world or Olympic gold, and yet she's at or near the top of many people's "now and forever best" lists—frequently way higher up than two-time OGM winner Katarina Witt. You can choose your favorites, but you can't really, truly make a ranking that everyone can agree to.

    Princess9, from everything I hear about Kim's impact in Korea, there is nothing, or at least nothing within the skating world, to compare it to. I know that skate fans in Japan are quite avid, but they now have a bunch of skaters from the present and the immediate past to admire, both ladies and men. Korea has just one world-class skater, ever--and she's one of the greatest skaters ever. As someone on another thread recently pointed out, she models. She even sings. (And pretty well, too--there are examples on YouTube.) She is the most famous person in all of Korea, and keep in mind that the current Secretary-General of the United Nations is from Korea. She's probably as unprecedented in terms of fame as J.K. Rowling is (the author of the Harry Potter books, in case you don't know any children).

    As for comparing her to Kwan, I certainly couldn't make a comparison. In strictly objective terms, each has something the other lacks. For sure Kim is one of the best jumpers ever, in terms of speed and the size of her jumps. Now that we can measure point scores, she's the record breaker among women. And, of course, she has the OGM. On the other hand, Kwan has a really unusual longevity and consistency. The fact that she was able to start her international career so young is part of it. She was fourth in the world at the age of 14, first at age 15, and on the podium until her early twenties. Kim didn't start racking up senior world medals that early and doesn't look to be interested in staying around that long. If she does, she's sure to win more world golds.

    Any preference for one or the other enters into the realm of the subjective. I happen to prefer Kwan, but I also love and admire Kim, as well as Mao Asada. Subsequent posts will argue eloquently and fervently for one over the other. It's going to be fun to listen! But there's never going to be a convincing final verdict.

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    If you're talking about influence. Michelle is the most influential skater in modern times. She has influenced skaters such as Yuna, Mirai, Caroline, and the list goes on. Michelle has the longevity factor and a body of work that remains unparalleled. The influence of present skaters can only be seen in future skaters, so now it's too soon to judge.

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    Beliver in Sasha's Perfect Program Tinymavy15's Avatar
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    Kim certainly has the ability to come close to Kwan's legendary status if she keeps competiting for another olympic cycle and remains near the top. If she decides to go pro or leave the sport altogether this summer she will be remembered as a great skater but not as a legend outside her country of Korea.

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    I became a figure skating fan because of Michelle Kwan. Then I never cared for this sport after she retired. When Yuna came I started to appreciate the sport again.

    Both are different skaters. I'm not a figure skating expert but I appreciate both of them and it's a thrill to see them skate even in a small screen.

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    :) aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    She's probably as unprecedented in terms of fame as J.K. Rowling is (the author of the Harry Potter books, in case you don't know any children).
    Only in Korea/mostly in Asian countries though. But I definitely do agree that there's probably no other impact that we can compare it to, not in America, at least. I remember Michelle saying something about how she's considered the daughter of S. Korea and even if we do have Michael Phelps here, he still can't compare to the impact and pride that S. Korea has for her.

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    Yes, Michelle was very polished at an early age and her first world gold showed an amazing maturity. I still can't believe she beat Chen Lu, the most exquisite lady. At 19, Yuna still has a way to go, IMO. It is really fun to see YUNA do those huge 3x3's. I enjoy the speed in her skating the most and find it refreshing since Irina has been gone. I think YUNA's acting is charming but I am hoping she will eventually skate with less artifice and become the music. She is a consistent jumper like Kwan but I don't think we'll ever see YUNA become the music itself as in a program like Lyra Angelica. I am waiting for YUNA to become the artist. I see her athleticism when she skates. Others may disagree. Hopefully not spitefully. They are indeed very different.

    I suspect Michelle might have quit and enrolled ft in college had she won in Nagano. That lack of gold kept her in, I'm sure despite some statements to contrary. And because she did not win that gold she stayed to earn a total 5 world titles. And with wonderful, intense performances. It is interesting that Witt has been the only woman in the modern error to compete with fire after her first oly gold. I don't see YUNA doing that. Katarina entered everything to win. In her day they always called her unbeatable as shee had such determination. She is forgotten it seems in 2010. She was the Queen of Skating for a long time.

    It seems that Mao may have the Kwan longevity and body of work in the end as she will try to compete 4 more years. In the end, I suspect Mao might be mentioned in the same sentence as Kwan for her longevity and titles earned. She is solely focused on her skating, as was Michelle. So there is something to be said for the great skaters who don't win the Oly gold. For me, watching Kwan at ages 15, 16 and 17 is as good as skating gets. She had the joy and purity that made me forget she was competing. I have not seen that in many singles skaters at the top. She seemed to feel no pressure. Those are my favorite years to this day. There was something different at times after she lost to Tara, the air of invincibility was gone. She still improved and gave great performances, don't get me wrong but I just loved those early years. I'm not saying Tara did not deserve her oly gold, she did, but 'Lyra' remains a masterpiece in my mind. It was majestic. I am waiting for Yuna to have her 'Lyra' if she continues to skate. Her placements don't interest me as much as seeing her perfect every move the way the Kween did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    Yes, Michelle was very polished at an early age and her first world gold showed an amazing maturity. I still can't believe she beat Chen Lu, the most exquisite lady. At 19, Yuna still has a way to go, IMO. It is really fun to see YUNA do those huge 3x3's. I enjoy the speed in her skating the most and find it refreshing since Irina has been gone. I think YUNA's acting is charming but I am hoping she will eventually skate with less artifice and become the music. She is a consistent jumper like Kwan but I don't think we'll ever see YUNA become the music itself as in a program like Lyra Angelica. I am waiting for YUNA to become the artist. I see her athleticism when she skates. Others may disagree. Hopefully not spitefully. They are indeed very different.

    I suspect Michelle might have quit and enrolled ft in college had she won in Nagano. That lack of gold kept her in, I'm sure despite some statements to contrary. And because she did not win that gold she stayed to earn a total 5 world titles. And with wonderful, intense performances. It is interesting that Witt has been the only woman in the modern error to compete with fire after her first oly gold. I don't see YUNA doing that. Katarina entered everything to win. In her day they always called her unbeatable as shee had such determination. She is forgotten it seems in 2010. She was the Queen of Skating for a long time.

    It seems that Mao may have the Kwan longevity and body of work in the end as she will try to compete 4 more years. In the end, I suspect Mao might be mentioned in the same sentence as Kwan for her longevity and titles earned. She is solely focused on her skating, as was Michelle. So there is something to be said for the great skaters who don't win the Oly gold. For me, watching Kwan at ages 15, 16 and 17 is as good as skating gets. She had the joy and purity that made me forget she was competing. I have not seen that in many singles skaters at the top. She seemed to feel no pressure. Those are my favorite years to this day. There was something different at times after she lost to Tara, the air of invincibility was gone. She still improved and gave great performances, don't get me wrong but I just loved those early years. I'm not saying Tara did not deserve her oly gold, she did, but 'Lyra' remains a masterpiece in my mind. It was majestic. I am waiting for Yuna to have her 'Lyra' if she continues to skate. Her placements don't interest me as much as seeing her perfect every move the way the Kween did.
    Of course Mao will. The new set of rules will benefit her the most. She has a strong federation to make it easier.
    Last edited by brownfox; 05-26-2010 at 11:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brownfox View Post
    I became a figure skating fan because of Michelle Kwan. Then I never cared for this sport after she retired. When Yuna came I started to appreciate the sport again.

    Both are different skaters. I'm not a figure skating expert but I appreciate both of them and it's a thrill to see them skate even in a small screen.
    Well, my initial response was that is too bad as there are a lot of great skaters past and present. It doesn't begin with Kwan and end with Kim. They certainly are very consistent skaters so one never does get distracted by the falls. I like Mirai Nagasu. Perhaps she is someone you could appreciate, at least her skating. She is not of the status yet of Kim or Kwan but she's a truly excellent skater when feeling confident.

    Not to mention mens, pairs and ice dance. Lots of wonderful talent there, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    It seems that Mao may have the Kwan longevity and body of work in the end as she will try to compete 4 more years. In the end, I suspect Mao might be mentioned in the same sentence as Kwan for her longevity and titles earned. She is solely focused on her skating, as was Michelle. So there is something to be said for the great skaters who don't win the Oly gold.
    You are saying since Asada failed to win OGM, Asada = Kwan?
    BTW, why are you setting up an Asada thread in disguise of Kim Yu Na thread? Having problems drawing attention lately? lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by RumbleFish View Post
    You are saying since Asada failed to win OGM, Asada = Kwan?
    BTW, why are you setting up an Asada thread in disguise of Kim Yu Na thread? Having problems drawing attention lately? lol
    Hmm, right, great logic. LMAO.

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    :) aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    It seems that Mao may have the Kwan longevity and body of work in the end as she will try to compete 4 more years. In the end, I suspect Mao might be mentioned in the same sentence as Kwan for her longevity and titles earned. She is solely focused on her skating, as was Michelle.
    So Mao and Michelle are/were solely focused on their skating and Yuna isn't? I don't really understand what you mean here.

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    yu-na is focused on her skating--however to me the primary difference between michelle and yu-na is the fact how yu-na and other skaters won the ogm--by
    favoritism--like new rules favor mao-and possible evgeny and russian skaters. like the rules the last 4years favored canadian--
    that means cheating--teachers pet in school -advantaged and overlooked mistakes-higher scores, and marks and not get into trouble,

    michelles rules nevered favored her- in fact favor tara/sarah more credence even though didn't do jumps correctly.
    see won ogm-they are great--really how much do you favor (cheat for them) rules wise, by that overlook mistakes
    yu-na at the olympics skated great-her ogm is deserved not so much for others, if favored rules now-how about back than-
    so to me ogm holds no merit unless skater went above and beyond what they should have done at the olympics-yu-na did- not so for kristi, scott, tara, ssarah, oksana
    they did what they was supposed and no more with a few mistakes and won.
    michelle skated decent like the rest since rules didn't favor her she didn't win. mao messed up a bit -to me just enough to help yu-na for ogm spreadc.
    yu-na and michelle are diffrent people but skating styles somewhat alike --difference is michelle expessed more than yu-na where i can feel.
    both are great skaters as well as mao-
    enough of my rant regarding ogm favoritism/cheating.

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    What I meant, aftertherain, was that Kim models, sings, endorses, does lots of commercials. No, I don't think we will see her competing much longer. I think she is done with the "stress." She has huge options in Korea we are told and may not return to comp. ice. We saw her lose interest or something at Worlds.

    Mao and Michelle did not win gold in their first Olympics. Each won silver as you know. and therefore Kwan chose to compete another whole olympic cycle. Michelle is the most decorated skater as she competed at high level for 10 years. Mao, not winning gold is determined to keep going if she can until Sochi. Unless she is injured or we have some new super duper phenom out of the blue, she will likely have many more major titles. If Kim leaves, likely they willl award Mao due to talent, reputation etc.

    I think it's very clear thay MK was totally focused during her eligible years. She was not in school, she was not singing, modeling, making millions doing endorsement deals. Mao has some opprtunities in Japan I imagine but she too does not really attend school. It's still all about skating and winning. She trains all the time. She badly wants to be the next Oly champion. Going down this road is what brought Kwan all those titles. I see Mao as possibly havving a resume like Kwan's when she is done. No one since Witt stayed to win another Gold in Olys but she was a very different person in a differnt era. You know all about Witt and the E. German sports machine. She was not really free to make her decisions and could not come west and make her fortune til the USSR fell apart in 1991.

    All I'm saying is that as many have mentioned, Kim likely won't stay eligible much longer. Why should she? She has the major medals and she has other interests to pursue. It sounds like S. Korea loves her so she might be offered the presidency. Just a jest, but you get my point. She has other fish to fry and I think she will move on now that she has that medal. She seems to have been telling us that for a while now. I predict barring injury or unforseen disaster Mao will have a longevity comparable to Kwan. The situation and the drive are similar, the results may be.

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