The Kween and the Queen | Page 12 | Golden Skate

The Kween and the Queen

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
[
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHfgjszz_Tk
Wow! What a connection between the audience and her! It was mesmerizing but even though a connection with audience is a part of FS, FS is not all about it.

After having seen all of these clips, I still believe that Yuna's performances are the best ever in Ladies FS history in terms of purely skating quality and difficulties.

In any sports, a great athlete comes along and push the sport to a higher level. In Ladies FS, we are lucky enough to have a list of great skaters who rose to the occasion and pushed the sport to a higher level.

When one pushes the Sport to a higher level, the skater must be better than the previous best skaters. As Yuna has been coronated as FS Queen replacing Michelle, Yuna will be also eclipsed by someone better than her in the future.

You left out this which I think stands as one of the most memorable programs and performances in skating history.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okPRcajUQrM&NR=1

Wasn't it after seeing Michelle's '98 programs that Yuna decided she wanted to be like Michelle? :)
 
Last edited:

SkatingAnalyst

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Very Good Analysis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw9XZAA72lw&feature=related
If this is Peggy Flemming's Tchaikovsky program you are referring to, I admit I am very impressed with her performance considering it was done more than 40 years ago. Ironically, I could see her in Yuna's performances in terms of elegance and lightness of jump and exquisite flow and I am all the more impressed with what Yuna has accomplished despite all the technical difficulties and loads of requirements she has to put up with under the current CoP judging system. I can only imagine how artistically good Yuna would have been if Yuna had to do only singles and doubles and there are no levels on spirals and spins and steps.

I found it very much amusing when I heard the commentators mentioning how elegant Peggy's performance was. Many commentators said basically the same thing for Yuna's performances even though it was much harder for Yuna to pull off artistic side of her programs with aforementioned requirements and difficulties.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0wb...E5920BAA&playnext_from=PL&playnext=1&index=14
As for Dorothy, this was the only clip I was able to find on Youtube. IMO, Dorothy's program was much faster and technically superior than Peggy's program even though Peggy's performance appeared to be much more beautiful artistically, at least to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dozwFZ5NoNs
I think Kristi's jumps are good enough to stand up against today's skaters. But unfortunately not as good as Yuna's.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHfgjszz_Tk
Wow! What a connection between the audience and her! It was mesmerizing but even though a connection with audience is a part of FS, FS is not all about it.

After having seen all of these clips, I still believe that Yuna's performances are the best ever in Ladies FS history in terms of purely skating quality and difficulties.

In any sports, a great athlete comes along and push the sport to a higher level. In Ladies FS, we are lucky enough to have a list of great skaters who rose to the occasion and pushed the sport to a higher level. I believe Peggy, Dorothy, Kristi, Michelle and Yuna all belong to one of these great skaters who rewrote the FS history.

When one pushes the Sport to a higher level, the skater must be better than the previous best skaters. As Yuna has been coronated as FS Queen replacing Michelle, Yuna will be also eclipsed by someone better than her in the future. I believe it must happen for the sake of the sport. Otherwise, Ladies FS is doomed.
Your analysis is very fair and adequate.

If I add one more quality about Yuna...
Yuna is the Greatest Skater ever who can be loved not only skating fans but people who know
nothing about skating... regardless of nationality and race.
 
Joined
Aug 16, 2009
Believe it or not, I hadn't watched that Lyra Angelica again until recently. I guess I was so sad about the Olympic results that I didn't want to see the Olympic version again, but it never occurred to me to look at the Nationals version. What an amazing performance, both technically and artistically. The thing that strikes me is how complex the choreography is. She never just skates from move to move. How could that get just a silver?

Brian, isn't it interesting to see how skating has progressed through the years. Your comment about Kristi's jumps is telling, though: she actually had a triple-triple in her Olympic program, as I recall, and that didn't happen again until Tara. So she was ahead of her time, and she retained her triples well into her pro career (and may have them still, for all I know).

Like you, I was not as impressed with Dorothy as an artist at the time she competed. It was only in her pro years that she became interesting to watch for me. Peggy was always amazing to me, and she was cutting-edge for her time. Did you notice her spread-eagle into the double axel? I think that would have counted as a difficult jump entrance even today.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Brianjw - Thanks for clip of Peggy. Interesting she wore a Chartreuse dress and skated to French Opera in Grenoble. How could she lose? :) :laugh: Seriously, she was the best in her era. As for her country, she was the only athlete to win a god medal for the USA.

Comparing her to Yuna, is difficult because of different eras. It's like comparing Henie to Asada. :eek:
 

SkatingAnalyst

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Audience reaction

Your analysis is very fair and adequate.

If I add one more quality about Yuna...
Yuna is the Greatest Skater ever who can be loved not only skating fans but people who know
nothing about skating... regardless of nationality and race.

Japanese commentators respect Yuna as much as Scott & Sandra.
American audience gave her standing ovation for a long time.
Virtually everybody stood up including myself & my wife.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6iVs5z6J-w&feature=related

Finnish commentators are as enthusiastic as Japanese.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TiCV5HESQk&feature=related

Canadien audience have same reaction as American.
They gave Yuna hearty standing ovation as if Yuna is their own skater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq7433dmpl4

Yuna is the one that can rejubernate the declinig figure skating.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHfgjszz_Tk

In any sports, a great athlete comes along and push the sport to a higher level. In Ladies FS, we are lucky enough to have a list of great skaters who rose to the occasion and pushed the sport to a higher level. I believe Peggy, Dorothy, Kristi, Michelle and Yuna all belong to one of these great skaters who rewrote the FS history.

When one pushes the Sport to a higher level, the skater must be better than the previous best skaters. As Yuna has been coronated as FS Queen replacing Michelle, Yuna will be also eclipsed by someone better than her in the future. I believe it must happen for the sake of the sport. Otherwise, Ladies FS is doomed.
Interesting theory. Something certainly can be said about the era's of a sport, but I really don't lay it on to invidual athletes.

the original sport of skating was racing followed by barrel jumping, and at one point they reached adding another barrel which would be the last one. No one came forward to jump that set of barrels. The Sport died.
I don't think we've reached that point in Figure Skating yet. At some point there will be a Quint, but a Sext will kill the Sport?

All Sports are thrilling during their eras.

There are improvements in equipment; in attire; in music; in makeup, etc. as well as in technical throughout the years. However, contributions to a Sport are always welcomed. I would suggest that Henie brought in the public, Albright brought in balletic line, Lynne brought in emotion. Do you not think these attributes count?

We seem now to be going overboard for Yuna and Mao, and Indeed we should. They are fine examples of excellent figure skating, but what have they brought to the Sport?
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Interesting theory. Something certainly can be said about the era's of a sport, but I really don't lay it on to invidual athletes.

the original sport of skating was racing followed by barrel jumping, and at one point they reached adding another barrel which would be the last one. No one came forward to jump that set of barrels. The Sport died.
I don't think we've reached that point in Figure Skating yet. At some point there will be a Quint, but a Sext will kill the Sport?

All Sports are thrilling during their eras.

There are improvements in equipment; in attire; in music; in makeup, etc. as well as in technical throughout the years. However, contributions to a Sport are always welcomed. I would suggest that Henie brought in the public, Albright brought in balletic line, Lynne brought in emotion. Do you not think these attributes count?

We seem now to be going overboard for Yuna and Mao, and Indeed we should. They are fine examples of excellent figure skating, but what have they brought to the Sport?

Very good points. Yuna and Mao have helped make skating very popular in Asia. They may not have introduced Asians to skating but their excellence and rivalry has certainly taken it to new heights.

Mao's 3A's in Vancouver are and always will be historic. Yuna's mastery of the CoP and record breaking scores will be remembered too.

Perhaps the Asian skaters need another decade before they become the major innovators, but if skating popularity continues to rise this may follow.

Miki is the first lady to land a quad and Dai did attempt a 4F - and who knows, he may be the first skater to land it.
 

SkatingAnalyst

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Interesting theory. Something certainly can be said about the era's of a sport, but I really don't lay it on to invidual athletes.

the original sport of skating was racing followed by barrel jumping, and at one point they reached adding another barrel which would be the last one. No one came forward to jump that set of barrels. The Sport died.
I don't think we've reached that point in Figure Skating yet. At some point there will be a Quint, but a Sext will kill the Sport?

All Sports are thrilling during their eras.

There are improvements in equipment; in attire; in music; in makeup, etc. as well as in technical throughout the years. However, contributions to a Sport are always welcomed. I would suggest that Henie brought in the public, Albright brought in balletic line, Lynne brought in emotion. Do you not think these attributes count?

We seem now to be going overboard for Yuna and Mao, and Indeed we should. They are fine examples of excellent figure skating, but what have they brought to the Sport?

Yuna brought dancing, acting and various facial expression adequate to occasions to figure skating.
Some can argue these attributes were there before Yuna.

But nobody ever showed the highest attractive, complete level Yuna displayed in her performance.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Very good points. Yuna and Mao have helped make skating very popular in Asia. They may not have introduced Asians to skating but their excellence and rivalry has certainly taken it to new heights.

Mao's 3A's in Vancouver are and always will be historic. Yuna's mastery of the CoP and record breaking scores will be remembered too.

Perhaps the Asian skaters need another decade before they become the major innovators, but if skating popularity continues to rise this may follow.

Miki is the first lady to land a quad and Dai did attempt a 4F - and who knows, he may be the first skater to land it.
Adding another turn in the air does not constitute an innovation or a contribution. It's simply an addition to a jump already in existence. Nothing knew here.
Dropping remarks like "historic" will never sell. In fact, most young fans today, will not give a hoot to Henie. People forget or say 'so what?' I've been around a long time and I guarantee that the fans in 2025 will not care one iota about who did what. Those fans will have their own favorites and do not want any old fan bringing up the past.

BTW. I'm waiting for the first Charlotte Spin. :biggrin:
 
Last edited:

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Yuna brought dancing, acting and various facial expression adequate to occasions to figure skating.
Some can argue these attributes were there before Yuna.

But nobody ever showed the highest attractive, complete level Yuna displayed in her performance.

It's about eras. Carol Heiss was the first Lady to land a 2A on Olympic ice. Peggy showed an elegance that had never been seen before. Katarina took theatrical expression to a new level and and Joesitz mentioned other firsts.

Some of us are forgetting that in her day Sonja had more popularity than Yuna and Mao put together. She became a top movie star and in her time more people knew Sonja than any skater whoever lived. I would venture to say no other skater has come close to being the household name Sonja was.

A problem in many parts of the world is that people do not know who Yuna is.
I think the best known athletes in the world are from other sports that have much larger audiences than figure skating. David Beckham come to mind......... and after this World Cup new world wide stars will emerge. Maybe Messi, Ronaldo, Kaka........

Being as big as she is in Korea is quite amazing but I wonder how much people in Buenos Aires care about Yuna. Or for that matter, right here in the USA where she is a virtual unknown.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Yuna brought dancing, acting and various facial expression adequate to occasions to figure skating.
Some can argue these attributes were there before Yuna.

But nobody ever showed the highest attractive, complete level Yuna displayed in her performance.
that's an opinion and I respect it. Others, of course, will have their own favorites showing various emotions.
 

jenaj

Record Breaker
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Country
United-States
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pw9XZAA72lw&feature=related

After having seen all of these clips, I still believe that Yuna's performances are the best ever in Ladies FS history in terms of purely skating quality and difficulties.

I would put Michelle's Song of the Black Swan at 2001 Worlds up as equal, at least, to Yu Na's performances in terms of difficulty and her EOE at 1998 World Pro as superior in terms of skating quality. There many other MK performances that, in my opinion, rank at least equal to Yu Na's. This is not to take anything away from Yu Na. She is the only one to rise to MK's level of overall ability since Michelle first succeeded on the World stage in 1996. They truly are the Queen and the Kween.
 

SkatingAnalyst

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
It's about eras. Carol Heiss was the first Lady to land a 2A on Olympic ice. Peggy showed an elegance that had never been seen before. Katarina took theatrical expression to a new level and and Joesitz mentioned other firsts.

Some of us are forgetting that in her day Sonja had more popularity than Yuna and Mao put together. She became a top movie star and in her time more people knew Sonja than any skater whoever lived. I would venture to say no other skater has come close to being the household name Sonja was.

A problem in many parts of the world is that people do not know who Yuna is.
I think the best known athletes in the world are from other sports that have much larger audiences than figure skating. David Beckham come to mind......... and after this World Cup new world wide stars will emerge. Maybe Messi, Ronaldo, Kaka........

Being as big as she is in Korea is quite amazing but I wonder how much people in Buenos Aires care about Yuna. Or for that matter, right here in the USA where she is a virtual unknown.

What you said is mostly true.
If you are talking about who is most famous sports person, Muhammad Ali is the one.

But we are talking about figure skating.

People must understand it's not only scott & Sandra that are gushing over yuna... It's the phenomenon shown last 3~4 years by commentators thruout the world.
Korean commentators are the least one that praise Yuna... They were too busy worrying about yuna's performance.
I've never experienced such a unanimous compliments over one particular skater.

And I agree with Mathman... Oksana was very very good dancer and actor.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Adding another turn in the air does not constitute an innovation or a contribution. It's simply an addition to a jump already in existence. Nothing knew here.
Dropping remarks like "historic" will never sell. In fact, most young fans today, will not give a hoot to Henie. People forget or say 'so what?' I've been around a long time and I guarantee that the fans in 2025 will not care one iota about who did what. Those fans will have their own favorites and do not want any old fan bringing up the past.

BTW. I'm waiting for the first Charlotte Spin. :biggrin:

Don't hold your breath waiting for a Charlotte spin.....but who knows? :)

I agree about the historic factor as it applies to the public. Still, I hope for more from skating fans.
Back in '98 I became friendly with a bunch of older Italian guys who I spent alot of time with watching soccer/football games.

As they taught me more about the nuances most Americans miss it was also pointed out to me that I knew practically nothing about the history of the World's most popular game.

"Alfredo DiStefano" - who needs to know about him - although many consider him the greatest all around player who ever lived.

So I spent time reading, bought a bunch of tapes and found that my appreciation and understanding for the modern game increased as I learned more about it's history.

Not everyone thinks like me ( a very good thing :laugh:) but it is hard to evaluate the best in our present era without having some knowledge of how we got to this point.

Unfortunately you are right and fans who follow the personality more than the sport itself will mostly care about their favorite. Still it is apparent to me that many fans do show a real interest in the history of skating and a rivalry like we see bewtween Yuna and Mao has done a lot to spark interest beyond the color of a dress or who has the prettier music.

Those of us in N. America should be greatful for the rise in skating popularity in Asia.
Without it we might not have gotten a chance to see Michelle skate again. :yes:
 
Last edited:

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
People must understand it's not only scott & Sandra that are gushing over yuna... It's the phenomenon shown last 3~4 years by commentators thruout the world.
Korean commentators are the least one that praise Yuna... They were too busy worrying about yuna's performance.
I've never experienced such a unanimous compliments over one particular skater.

Michelle Kwan got the gushing before Yuna
Dorothy Hamill got the gushing before Yuna
Katarina Witt got the gushing before Yuna
it's hardly a phenomenon that the commentators choose to cheer on the one 'at the top.'
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
About innovation, I think that as a sport matures and solidifies there is less and less opportunity for anyone to invent a totally unique move that has never been seen before.

In show skating, yes. But as a sport, we do not expect a baseball player to invent a new way of hitting a home run (standing on his head, perhaps?) Just hit the home run in the usual way and win the game.
 

SkatingAnalyst

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Michelle Kwan got the gushing before Yuna
Dorothy Hamill got the gushing before Yuna
Katarina Witt got the gushing before Yuna
it's hardly a phenomenon that the commentators choose to cheer on the one 'at the top.'

Understood. Show me some youtube that foreign commentators gushing over Michelle.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Understood. Show me some youtube that foreign commentators gushing over Michelle.

Years from now the record books will list Joannie Rochette as the 2010 Olympic Bronze medalist.
But most who saw her skate will remember it for a long time. Those who go back years from now and look into it might be amazed by her brave and inspiring performances.

Go back to 1971 Worlds and watch a French crowd hiss and boo the podium - because a young American skater was not on it. How often has this happened?

Or become more familiar with the 1972 Olympics and see how it was the Ladies Bronze medalist who stole the hearts of the crowd and left a lasting impression on the Japanese people.

Yuna and Mao have touched hearts around the world - but they are hardly the first skaters to do so.

The English EuroSport commentators have done a fair share of gushing over Michelle going back to
her 4th place finish at '95 Worlds. They thought even at 14 she should have been on the podium.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
People must understand it's not only scott & Sandra that are gushing over yuna... It's the phenomenon shown last 3~4 years by commentators thruout the world.
Korean commentators are the least one that praise Yuna... They were too busy worrying about yuna's performance.
I've never experienced such a unanimous compliments over one particular skater.
Have you experienced: Sjoukje Dikstra? Jacqueline duBief? Karen Magnussen?
 
Top