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Thread: The Kween and the Queen

  1. #91
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    What on earth is a "4-shaped-leg"?
    It is something like the shape of a triangle choke in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu - so my advice is don't mess with little Midori

    Here is BJJ World champion Kyra Gracie showing a triangle choke:

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/gracieva/1163529444/

    Those who follow MMA know the Gracie name - Kyra is the greatgrandaugher of Carlos Gracie, and the niece of Renzo Gracie. I saw her train once in New York and she is totally awesome.

    She is a one of the few girls in the Gracie family to have earned a blackbelt in BJJ.
    And pretty hot too

    http://i556.photobucket.com/albums/s...yraGracie2.jpg
    Last edited by janetfan; 06-03-2010 at 05:37 PM.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren View Post
    I think ehdtkqorl123 means a wrapped leg technique..?
    Oh.....okay. For me, even with a wrapped leg, Midori's jumps are just so exciting to watch!

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by chloepoco View Post
    Oh.....okay. For me, even with a wrapped leg, Midori's jumps are just so exciting to watch!

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftertherain View Post
    Ito was wondeful to watch. What a spirit she had!

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    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    Ito was wondeful to watch. What a spirit she had!
    I absolutely agree!

  6. #96
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    I liked Danse Macabre and would like to see her revisit it in a few years to see how she approaches it. But I thought her Olympic year programs were the best fit so far and showcased her strength. As Doris points out, there are some amazing female jumpers. Yu-Na seems to beat most in terms of the ice coverage of her 3x3. She covers half the rink. Someone on another thread characterized her skating as sleek like a greyhound. I found that interesting. The word panther comes to mind when I see the speed and the approach. The one thing about speedy skating is that positions are not always finished. We saw this with Irina, too, tho Kim I find to be a more elegant skater. Irina's triples had a lot of spring. She answered the question, as Button would say, where is the jump in that jump? Kim has huge jumps, no debate there.

    I do like to see skaters have slower sections to their skating as that is where we see the lines and control.
    I've been thinking about that more recently. I wonder if we'll every see Yuna display the kind of one-foot edge work that Michelle Kwan showed off in East of Eden or Fields of Gold... Mathman was saying he thinks it's a lost art. Is it that Yuna isn't as good at that sort of thing or is it COP's fault?

    I re-watched her 2009 LP to see if I could see a hint of that. Well, not really. Still, the performance gave me goosebumps. I think this time around I appreciated it more than ever. It's like I've always said, Yuna is like another instrument in the music.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-xwx-Z3ijc

    I think polished lines are a different question. It's too bad that Yuna can't achieve a perfect lines (even though Scott Hamilton is always raving about her perfect positions for some reason.) But I think it's more to do with her body and she pushes it as much as she's able to.

    For me Michelle Kwan+Kim Yuna+Sasha Cohen: that would make the perfect skater.

    Michelle: amazing edging, confidence, consistency and greatest ice presence ever.
    Kim: perfect jump technique, speed, confidence and exquisite musicality.
    Sasha: Best lines, posture and positions I've ever seen. And best forward scratch spin in how long?

  7. #97
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    (Sorry this post is a bit long, it s a comparison/appreciation between Yuna’s WC Danse and OGM FS. It ended up so long just because I couldn't stop myself once I got into the 'inspired zone'. Apologies if any points has been covered by the forum already, I am new to this so I guess I am writing this for myself, and all feedback are welcomed.)

    I might not be as well versed as most here recounting figure skating history, but i am well aware that Ito is known as the best jumper of all time and probably ever because her amazing 3A and the full sets of triples (Pop Trivia: In Chinese forums Ito’s nickname is called ‘Grandma Ito’, as a sign of respect as the most senior and respected female in the family; and Mao’s nick name is ‘Cat’ because the pronunciation of her English name is same as the word ‘Cat’ in Mandarin. Perhaps it also has to do with her feline supple quality on ice as well. Her name makes her sounding lovable, because well, who doesn’t like a cute cat or a ‘kitten’ esp given her off ice image fits it well). Shizuka is obviously known for her insane Inner Bauer despite her height which is tall for a skater. They are all best at their elements, but for me Yuna is something new, she is a complete package, similar to Michelle was of her era, the consistent, the artistry, a performances that they truly 'own' because it was told in their unique and very individual style.

    It is hard to pinpoint Yuna’s best quality as there are many. She may not be the most flexible and point her toes, or have straightest back ballet posture, but she more than make up for it with practice so she was at least be able to match amongst the best in GOE scores. Her own arson of signatures moves, like 3:3, spread eagle / inner bauer onto a 3T or 2A and of course her lay back camel spins can not be repeated by the current sets of Ladies. Mirai tried but failed, she is young and will learn and improve. However you can’t discount Yuna’s innate talent because she was also one of the very few in history that were able join all the transitional together as natural as breathing on ice.

    Her efforts at best are natural and invisible; it doesn’t feel like she’s even ‘trying’. This is a huge difference compared to other skaters which you can always tell they are thinking and preparing for whatever big jump next. She can be both fire and/or ice, dark and/or light, depends on whatever the piece is needed. Although she doesn’t have the longevity (yet) with the full breadth and range of performances to consider fully versatile yet, the few she was able perform at her best, they stood head and shoulders amongst the greats. The best contrast can be shown the essence she was able to deliver between her WC Danse and her OGM Gershwin FS.

    Her Dance Macabre I’d say is about displaying athleticism and physical prowess while trying to defy the boundaries of physics and gravity in Ladies skating. To do the performance, she must be courageous and fierce to launch herself at maximum warp speed with complete abandonment and any visible efforts of human vulnerability. A spirit has over taken over her body, and put it on autopilot without the Hollywood special effects for 2.5 mins on acid. Other than those ridiculous jumps, look at how her body spun into a posture, then her head follows, spun then freezes, spuns and then freezes. It was as her body was having a life of its own, and her human constricts are merely slowly trying to catch up. It was almost supernatural and defies logic.

    Her Gershwin number on the other hand is the exact opposite. It is all about light and serenity. A masterful display of ‘control’ and ‘fluidity’. It was far from a character piece like everyone else’s program. IMHO it feels like a summation of Yuna’s own human accomplishments in skating. The Olympics is the climax of her journey. Her FS is her commentary on the purity of ice skating, and Gershwin was merely a backdrop complimenting her reflection and contemplation on display.

    It was as she is taking the judges on walk in central park - nice and easy – while slowly revealing her full sets of repertoires. Just count the number of times she addressed the judges with a different gazes in between each major element. Look for her full sets of definitive expressions and eye contacts.

    It was as if she is asking

    “Look what I can do.” “Look at what I have become.” “Are you impressed?” “Are you delighted?” “Did you like that?” “Have you seen better? etc

    Through out the piece, there were clear junctures that she was able to demonstrate finesse, sophistication, and refinement. It was a case of less is more, quality over quantity. It was decisively elegant, simple, flirty, yet vulnerable and feminine. When she drops her arm, it wasn’t just about letting it fall and onto the next transition, but it is about fine-tuning the speed and the position it falls and how it accentuate to Gershwin’s notes, and punctuate the breaks. At times there implied some invisible elasticity in the other direction holding her upper body on to the next position, but the body is fighting against the motion as it wishes to enjoy ‘the moment’ …just a bit longer while her blade floats across the ice light, fast and dainty.

    It was a nice contrast to her Bond program that was designed to be a populist piece, a fan service designed for the Olympics world wide audience, to be the ultimate crowd pleaser. And it worked. Her signature ending poses is famous and even copied by the entire Japanese Team including Mao during their break time.

    But oh my, her Gershwin in contrast was so sophisticated it felt somewhat elitist it is almost untouchable.

    It felt to truly appreciate it, or earn to appreciate it, you’d have to be some fine sophisticated skinny ladies in full evening Chanel cocktail dresses, adorned with a tres tres chic diamond necklaces which they'd spun around their little finger carelessly, while the other hand holding an ice cold matini peering out from their Manhattan penthouse, preferably with a view overlooking Central park from the upper east side. Her feet dangling a Louboutin leaning against the balcony, while sipping their ice cold drink enjoying a quiet moment of contemplation with a cool glee.
    Last edited by os168; 06-03-2010 at 10:50 PM.

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    I've been thinking about that more recently. I wonder if we'll every see Yuna display the kind of one-foot edge work that Michelle Kwan showed off in East of Eden or Fields of Gold... Mathman was saying he thinks it's a lost art. Is it that Yuna isn't as good at that sort of thing or is it COP's fault?

    I re-watched her 2009 LP to see if I could see a hint of that. Well, not really. Still, the performance gave me goosebumps. I think this time around I appreciated it more than ever. It's like I've always said, Yuna is like another instrument in the music.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-xwx-Z3ijc

    I think polished lines are a different question. It's too bad that Yuna can't achieve a perfect lines (even though Scott Hamilton is always raving about her perfect positions for some reason.) But I think it's more to do with her body and she pushes it as much as she's able to.

    For me Michelle Kwan+Kim Yuna+Sasha Cohen: that would make the perfect skater.

    Michelle: amazing edging, confidence, consistency and greatest ice presence ever.
    Kim: perfect jump technique, speed, confidence and exquisite musicality.
    Sasha: Best lines, posture and positions I've ever seen. And best forward scratch spin in how long?
    Yes, all true, I think. Scott as a commentator brings much excitement. I like him, but he gushes and he wants to be very positive and complimentary with most skaters. The problem is he does a poor job of explaining what we are seeing technically. Skating when it was covered in years past would have these little tutorials I miss explaining different jumps and techniques.

    Still he's fun. Paul Wylie gives more info but not as fun. Scott kind of skates through the program with a skater. He's very emotional. People like that about him.

    I smile every time I see your posts as Nagasu is so adorable. Love that avatar.

    Funny you mentioned East of Eden. What do you think of the performances when she was young then later in her career? That's what I was thinking about when I posted about Danse and how different it might look a few years down. Michelle matured early artistically speaking.

    I think CoP obviously needs to be changed a lot. I agree with most of what Sonia Bianchetti feels about it. But there are certainly experts on this board, like Mathman. For those that like statistics and counting and math complexity its a great subject. One can't blame CoP for any skater's shortcomings but it does seem to reward the technical side of the sport more heavily.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168
    “Look what I can do.” “Look at what I have become.” “Are you impressed?” “Are you delighted?” “Did you like that?” “Have you seen better?" etc.
    I like that description as much as I lked the program!

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    ***whole post***
    What an absolutely amazing post that summarizes everything I felt about Yu-na's LP perfectly :D

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post

    Her Dance Macabre I’d say is about displaying athleticism and physical prowess while trying to defy the boundaries of physics and gravity in Ladies skating. To do the performance, she must be courageous and fierce to launch herself at maximum warp speed with complete abandonment and any visible efforts of human vulnerability. A spirit has over taken over her body, and put it on autopilot without the Hollywood special effects for 2.5 mins on acid. Other than those ridiculous jumps, look at how her body spun into a posture, then her head follows, spun then freezes, spuns and then freezes. It was as her body was having a life of its own, and her human constricts are merely slowly trying to catch up. It was almost supernatural and defies logic.

    Her Gershwin number on the other hand is the exact opposite. It is all about light and serenity. A masterful display of ‘control’ and ‘fluidity’. It was far from a character piece like everyone else’s program. IMHO it feels like a summation of Yuna’s own human accomplishments in skating. The Olympics is the climax of her journey. Her FS is her commentary on the purity of ice skating, and Gershwin was merely a backdrop complimenting her reflection and contemplation on display.

    When she drops her arm, it wasn’t just about letting it fall and onto the next transition, but it is about fine-tuning the speed and the position it falls and how it accentuate to Gershwin’s notes, and punctuate the breaks. At times there implied some invisible elasticity in the other direction holding her upper body on to the next position, but the body is fighting against the motion as it wishes to enjoy ‘the moment’ …just a bit longer while her blade floats across the ice light, fast and dainty.
    Now that's what I call great commentary. Using the descriptive and specific to persuasively demonstrate the larger metaphors and effects (as well as affects), the microscope that is also telescope.

    (I am also glad to finally see a post longer than mine; I was concerned that I'd be holding that dubious title for a while . Although I fear Mathman will now want to plagiarize your post for his post-graduate endeavors. Make sure you charge him at least Cliff Notes rates ).

  12. #102
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    Yes, all true, I think. Scott as a commentator brings much excitement. I like him, but he gushes and he wants to be very positive and complimentary with most skaters. The problem is he does a poor job of explaining what we are seeing technically. Skating when it was covered in years past would have these little tutorials I miss explaining different jumps and techniques.

    Still he's fun. Paul Wylie gives more info but not as fun. Scott kind of skates through the program with a skater. He's very emotional. People like that about him.

    I smile every time I see your posts as Nagasu is so adorable. Love that avatar.

    Funny you mentioned East of Eden. What do you think of the performances when she was young then later in her career? That's what I was thinking about when I posted about Danse and how different it might look a few years down. Michelle matured early artistically speaking.

    I think CoP obviously needs to be changed a lot. I agree with most of what Sonia Bianchetti feels about it. But there are certainly experts on this board, like Mathman. For those that like statistics and counting and math complexity its a great subject. One can't blame CoP for any skater's shortcomings but it does seem to reward the technical side of the sport more heavily.
    Well, you wouldn't get many points, I don't think, for those moves Michelle did in EoE ... so in that sense, COP may be partly to blame for discouraging it.

    The problem with your question to me about Danse Macabre is that I think that was one of the most perfect pieces of skating I've ever seen. I agree that Michelle matured early artistically. Astonishingly early. Yuna matured later. But I happen to find Yuna at 19 a very mature and incredibly artistic skater. I definitely perfer Michelle's style. But Yuna is not Michelle ... she has a different style. It's a matter of taste.
    I know you'll protest but I distinctly get the feeling from many of your posts that Yuna is simply not much to your taste. Nothing wrong with that.
    I have criticized Yuna a lot for her lines and her un-pointed toes. I think those flaws prevent some viewers _ like Emily Frankel _ from appreciating how good an artist and dancer Yuna really is. It's valid to bring those flaws up, of course.

    I agree with you about Scott - In spite of the criticism against him, I can't help but enjoy his commentary and I love how he empathizes with the skaters so much. I'm a sucker for his comentary
    I have to admit I wish he'd call Yuna every once in a while on her toes, though. She definitely gets a pass on that one with the commentators. I came across a youtube video of G&G's 1988 Olympic performance in which Peggy said, "now if only she would point her toes." And I thought, hey, why doesn't she ever say that about Yuna??

    Anyway.... to get to the point, I honestly don't think maturity is Yuna's problem. I think her problem with slightly awkward lines is just physical and she does the best she can.

  13. #103
    I'm out. aftertherain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    I have to admit I wish he'd call Yuna every once in a while on her toes, though. She definitely gets a pass on that one with the commentators. I came across a youtube video of G&G's 1988 Olympic performance in which Peggy said, "now if only she would point her toes." And I thought, hey, why doesn't she ever say that about Yuna??
    I think it's because Peggy doesn't commentate anymore. Ahaha.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    It felt to truly appreciate it, or earn to appreciate it, you’d have to be some fine sophisticated skinny lady in full evening Chanel cocktail dress, adorned with a tres tres chic diamond necklaces which they spun around their little finger carelessly, while the other hand holding an ice cold matini peering out from their Manhattan penthouses, preferably with a view overlooking Central park from the upper east side. Her feet dangling a Louboutin leaning against the balconey, while seeping their ice cold drink enjoying a quiet moment of contemplation with a cool glee.
    I love your whole post but especially this description. I think that when a skating performance opens a whole world to viewers, as it has to you here, then it's a great work.

    In a way, a beautiful routine breaks the boundaries of time. The skater isn't rushing. Every move fills its moment and then floats to the next. The performance becomes almost a living thing. However one ranks YuNa, Mao, and Michelle, they are all capable of performances like this. They are each in the very small group of all-time great skaters.

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    Actually Layfan, I enjoy Yuna much but disagree with those inflated scores. I think she was her best in Vancouver, but it is really hard to judge skaters you have never seen live. And if you did not catch the broadcast, you get to watch on the internet. The word awkward is a word Orser has used, too. Anyway. So much bandwith for 2 skaters. I find Rochette very elegant and think we tend to focus on Mao/Yuna too much.

    Peggy doesn't say very much of interest. I miss Dick Button. He seemed to say what he thought and was the only one who really did. Other than Weir of course. But I don't see any big gigs doing broadcasting in his future.

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