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Thread: Who will be the next sweet heart of American figure skating?

  1. #61
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    Layfan, I hope Mirai has some wondeful international wins. When you are skating in the shadow of a favorite champion and other world medalists it can be very intimidating. Kwan, Lipinski, Hughes, Kim are great event skaters. All do (did) well under stress and pressure for the most part. Mirai is someone who lacks that confidence. She has lovely combination jumps. Kim will be remembered for her speed and flow and her huge jumps softly landed. This years programs show the growth in her artistry under the expert team she has. As Bezic once said OGM does not always define success. People obsessed with CoP scores and Kim's will always say (especially the young, new Korean fans of Kim who really love her to death) that these scores prove she is the best now and forever, until someone (and it will have to be a Kim protege!) shatters those numbers.

    To be totally fair, was MK so great because she got all those 6.0 s? More than any male or female by far? That is not how I look at it. Judges gush too. How can one say she was better than Brian Boitano? It is impossible to compare male and female single skaters. Yet if we take the scores we must all agree she is the best American skater ever, male or female. Reputation marks helped Kwan at times when she wasn't clean or the best. They will and have helped Kim and Asada. Kwan is always introduced as the most decorated American in history. No authorities ever say MK is the best lady ever. It just is not stated this way. I guess it would upset Albright, Heiss, Flemming, Hamill, Yamaguchi, Kerrigan (two Oly Medals -same as Kwan's) Lipinski, Hughes, Sumners, Lynn and their ardent fans. It is us, her ordinary fans fans that gush about her most.

    As a few posters have pointed out, if you have just started watching skating since Yu-Na or some have said they have only seen the Olympics, do you feel you are as qualified to judge skating as say, Joesitz who has watched several decades?

    I enjoy skaters who really are musical and skate with passion. This performance quality is a bit harder to achieve under CoP, I think. But Mirai seems to wow many people, internationally. This performance passion, or joy in the moment is why MK has fans all over the world.

    No other judged sport is like figureskating. Popularity, insider favoritism, audience appeal, time in the sport (dues) affect outcomes. Look at how powerful federations are and how they lobby, cheat, even for their skaters. And powerful commentators like Button, Bezic, Hamilton can make or break a skater with their gushy favoritism. Two words. Salt Lake. Nuff said about favoritism and $$ incentives.

    The best doesn't always win. And numbers are easily manipulated under CoP as they were under 6.0. Kim was going to win even if she fell on her triple triple. 23 points? Go back and read all the comments on GS or FSU on the Olympic threads to see how all the folks were so appalled by the overscoring in general. It seems everyone had personal bests in the judged sports, certainly FS.

    Some may say it is cultural or personality, but Kim is rather a cool competitor. Don't get me wrong, she was the best in Vancouver, two great performances. Best packaged lady out there. Now go watch her gala skate. She had just won the Gold! I know a lot of people said they were underwhelmed. Was it her? the music? The boring choreo? They did not even get the dress right. This should have been an exciting or at least memorable skate! She should have done her Bond SP. For someone who likes to skate shows, well, it was emailed. Her moment to revel in her win and it was lacklustre. I know her ardent supporters will see it very differently. I wish she had reprised Bond as that is a great program for her. She did not look like she was happy, excited! She is a stunning pressure/big event skater but I am still waiting to see her skate without self consciousness and with her heart. Yu-Na is an ice queen and seems very sweet and nice, so everyone likes her. But I don't see passion. Maybe way too much stress to win. Her worlds was ? She seemed like a different girl.

    A lot of people feel cool about Arakawa. She had everything, can do everything, but she is a very "cool" skater. Beautiful, elegant, eveything you would expect of a champion and womanly. It was not the best OGM ladies performance. It was not her best skating. Still, it was enough that night. Still her fans and Japan fans can say she's the best female because she has that gold. I wonder who Japan favors most. Ito? Asada? Sato? They have so many great ladies. I guess now it is all about Asada and her 3 axels.

    For me Sato is the most elegant, naturally gifted skater. But Arakawa has Oly gold. By what criteria do you judge so many talented people? For me it comes down to performance ability and joy. Also, passion, excitement and intensity. And jumps matter. Sasha was said by Peggy to have been the greatest practice skater. As exquisite as she is, she could not compete. She even said her Oly silver was a gift. If Sasha had stayed on her feet and not two footed so many jumps, she'd have won every event. So, of course Kim's consistency is great, as well as the speed into her huge difficult 3x3. That part is stunning. But speed without proper lines, finished positions is not something I gush about. Katia had no jumps but she succeeded in part as a singles skater because she was fast, light, and had flawless beautiful basic skating. Her blades are silent. She has always been an artist, bringing her heart and soul to every performance. This is why people still watch her at nearly forty. Obviously there are other reasons for her fandom in the US.

    I can't convince anyone that Mirai is super talented. I can only say that when she is on, her skating holds my attention and satisfies me. Will she be lucky? I hope so. She is someone who will get even better. At 20, I hope she wins her Oly gold, if she earns it fair and square. I'm for Mirai!

    I don't want to underestimate her ability to compete. I hope she proves me wrong.

    And I'm hoping Flatt gets fair scores this year. I know everyone prefers Mirai to Flatt and Wagner, but I enjoy both of these skaters as well. It's tough when you like everybody.

    As for natural talent, I'd say two very hardworking people won OGM this cycle. Evan and Kim are known for natural talent plus work ethic plus best teams. It takes more than talent to get where they are.
    Last edited by princess9; 06-08-2010 at 11:58 PM.

  2. #62
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    hands down: adam rippon
    Last edited by 1795; 06-10-2010 at 04:22 AM.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post

    To be totally fair, was MK so great because she got all those 6.0 s? More than any male or female by far? That is not how I look at it. Judges gush too. How can one say she was better than Brian Boitano? It is impossible to compare male and female single skaters. Yet if we take the scores we must all agree she is the best American skater ever, male or female. Reputation marks helped Kwan at times when she wasn't clean or the best. They will and have helped Kim and Asada. Kwan is always introduced as the most decorated American in history. No authorities ever say MK is the best lady ever. It just is not stated this way. I guess it would upset Albright, Heiss, Flemming, Hamill, Yamaguchi, Kerrigan (two Oly Medals -same as Kwan's) Lipinski, Hughes, Sumners, Lynn and their ardent fans. It is us, her ordinary fans fans that gush about her most.
    So you love Kwan.

    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    I enjoy skaters who really are musical and skate with passion. This performance quality is a bit harder to achieve under CoP, I think. But Mirai seems to wow many people, internationally. This performance passion, or joy in the moment is why MK has fans all over the world.
    And you love Mirai...

    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    No other judged sport is like figureskating. Popularity, insider favoritism, audience appeal, time in the sport (dues) affect outcomes. Look at how powerful federations are and how they lobby, cheat, even for their skaters. And powerful commentators like Button, Bezic, Hamilton can make or break a skater with their gushy favoritism. Two words. Salt Lake. Nuff said about favoritism and $$ incentives.
    And you hate judges and commentators...
    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    Some may say it is cultural or personality, but Kim is rather a cool competitor. Don't get me wrong, she was the best in Vancouver, two great performances. Best packaged lady out there. Now go watch her gala skate. She had just won the Gold! I know a lot of people said they were underwhelmed. Was it her? the music? The boring choreo? They did not even get the dress right. This should have been an exciting or at least memorable skate! She should have done her Bond SP. For someone who likes to skate shows, well, it was emailed. Her moment to revel in her win and it was lacklustre. I know her ardent supporters will see it very differently. I wish she had reprised Bond as that is a great program for her. She did not look like she was happy, excited! She is a stunning pressure/big event skater but I am still waiting to see her skate without self consciousness and with her heart. Yu-Na is an ice queen and seems very sweet and nice, so everyone likes her. But I don't see passion. Maybe way too much stress to win. Her worlds was ? She seemed like a different girl.
    And you don't like Kim's gala ...
    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    A lot of people feel cool about Arakawa. She had everything, can do everything, but she is a very "cool" skater. Beautiful, elegant, eveything you would expect of a champion and womanly. It was not the best OGM ladies performance. It was not her best skating. Still, it was enough that night. Still her fans and Japan fans can say she's the best female because she has that gold. I wonder who Japan favors most. Ito? Asada? Sato? They have so many great ladies. I guess now it is all about Asada and her 3 axels.
    So you love Arakawa...
    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    For me Sato is the most elegant, naturally gifted skater. But Arakawa has Oly gold. By what criteria do you judge so many talented people? For me it comes down to performance ability and joy. Also, passion, excitement and intensity. And jumps matter. Sasha was said by Peggy to have been the greatest practice skater. As exquisite as she is, she could not compete. She even said her Oly silver was a gift. If Sasha had stayed on her feet and not two footed so many jumps, she'd have won every event. So, of course Kim's consistency is great, as well as the speed into her huge difficult 3x3. That part is stunning. But speed without proper lines, finished positions is not something I gush about. Katia had no jumps but she succeeded in part as a singles skater because she was fast, light, and had flawless beautiful basic skating. Her blades are silent. She has always been an artist, bringing her heart and soul to every performance. This is why people still watch her at nearly forty. Obviously there are other reasons for her fandom in the US.
    so you like other skaters too...
    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post

    I can't convince anyone that Mirai is super talented. I can only say that when she is on, her skating holds my attention and satisfies me. Will she be lucky? I hope so. She is someone who will get even better. At 20, I hope she wins her Oly gold, if she earns it fair and square. I'm for Mirai!

    I don't want to underestimate her ability to compete. I hope she proves me wrong.

    And I'm hoping Flatt gets fair scores this year. I know everyone prefers Mirai to Flatt and Wagner, but I enjoy both of these skaters as well. It's tough when you like everybody.

    As for natural talent, I'd say two very hardworking people won OGM this cycle. Evan and Kim are known for natural talent plus work ethic plus best teams. It takes more than talent to get where they are.
    You love Mirai most. (I just simply put it. )


    Go Kimmie! Go Ashley!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Why aren't U.S. promoters aren't all over Yu-na Kim? Kim is probably too busy being Korea's sweetheart, but still...
    Don't you know Mathman? Kim costs much and we are in recession.

    Go Kimmie! Go Ashley!

  5. #65
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    If we consider the major senior ISU events to be Olympics, Worlds, 4CC, Europeans and the Grand Prix; when was the last time a U.S. lady won one of them? Kimmie won Skate America in the fall of 2007. That's right - almost 3 years ago. We have gone 2 and a half seasons without a U.S. senior lady winning a major ISU event. It could be that the next winner will be annointed by the news media as our sweetheart. But who will that be?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    If we consider the major senior ISU events to be Olympics, Worlds, 4CC, Europeans and the Grand Prix; when was the last time a U.S. lady won one of them? Kimmie won Skate America in the fall of 2007. That's right - almost 3 years ago. We have gone 2 and a half seasons without a U.S. senior lady winning a major ISU event.
    Actually I would not call Skate America or other GP-events a major ISU event. Such events are Worlds and Olympics only, in my opinion.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaana View Post
    Actually I would not call Skate America or other GP-events a major ISU event. Such events are Worlds and Olympics only, in my opinion.
    In a way, the Grand Prix Final is the most major event. You have to be very good to get to the Final, but you can be mediocre and skate at Worlds or Olympics.

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    Without network coverage of these events there can be no ice queen or king. For now it is a pretty dead question. In the 90's everyone would know who Rachel or Mirai was. Major league skating has become an elitist sport. Too expensive - too confusing. Is it time for Katarina to come out of retirement and skate to some version of "Requiem?"

  9. #69
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    My choice: Mirai Nagasu

    When she can controll her nerves, improve like she did last season, there is no question. With the new rules for downgrades, I think she IS the next big superstar in figure skating. I will not wunder, if she medals at worlds this year.

    And one thing: Nagasu is a big star, also without the big victories. So many people love her. She really have something special, which f. e. Flatt do not have. People all around the world, love this teenager!

  10. #70
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by princess9 View Post
    Layfan, I hope Mirai has some wondeful international wins. When you are skating in the shadow of a favorite champion and other world medalists it can be very intimidating. Kwan, Lipinski, Hughes, Kim are great event skaters. All do (did) well under stress and pressure for the most part. Mirai is someone who lacks that confidence.

    I think Mirai showed much confidence last season. She skated last at the U.S. championships, without a doubt the most pressure-filled competition for her last season. Everything was the line and Rachael and Ashley has just skated their hearts out right before her. But Mirai went out there flashed a huge smile as if to say, "oh yeah? well watch this." Then she won the audience over. Her UR calls kept from the gold but she stayed on her feet and performed her heart out.
    Then at her very first Olympics she gave two more near-perfect performance - again skating last!! - and nearly made the podium.

    It would have been amazing if Mirai had duplicated that near-perfection three times in a row for Worlds. Kim, Mao and Rachael all failed to do that.

    I think Mirai showed she as a good a competitor as anyone else last season. Problem is, going into next season she'll probably be considered a favorite at many competitions so we'll see how she does when she's not considered the underdog.
    Last edited by Layfan; 06-13-2010 at 12:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    In a way, the Grand Prix Final is the most major event. You have to be very good to get to the Final, but you can be mediocre and skate at Worlds or Olympics.
    I bet if you asked Ashley she would say last season was very disappointing.
    She did not make her National team and did not get to skate at Worlds or the Olympics.
    She did get to skate at the GPF.

    As a skater, I seriously doubt if the GPF is their top priority. I know as a fan it is not anywhere near as important to me as Natls - let alone Worlds or the Olympics.

    The GP series is fun and feels like the pre-season as it sets the table for the bigger and more prestigious events. It was created to make make more money for I$U and to kill professional skating.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    As a skater, I seriously doubt if the GPF is their top priority. I know as a fan it is not anywhere near as important to me as Natls - let alone Worlds or the Olympics.

    The GP series is fun and feels like the pre-season as it sets the table for the bigger and more prestigious events. It was created to make make more money for I$U and to kill professional skating.
    I don't know why the GP was created, but I feel it's important. Why? Let's assume there is no Grand Prix. What is the season? Nationals, 4CC, Olympics ( some years ) and Worlds. The season is late January to late March. Do you want a skating season 2 months long? Or would you rather it be 5 months long?

  13. #73
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I bet if you asked Ashley she would say last season was very disappointing.
    She did not make her National team and did not get to skate at Worlds or the Olympics.
    She did get to skate at the GPF.

    As a skater, I seriously doubt if the GPF is their top priority. I know as a fan it is not anywhere near as important to me as Natls - let alone Worlds or the Olympics.

    The GP series is fun and feels like the pre-season as it sets the table for the bigger and more prestigious events. It was created to make make more money for I$U and to kill professional skating.
    Also, I think it's harder in some countries than others to make world/Olympic teams. I'd say it was pretty tough this year to make the U.S. team because there were only two spots and about five girls who had a decent shot of making it. And I'd say it was pretty tough in Japan because of all the world class skaters they have.

    Two American girls proved they had what it takes under one of the most pressure-filled competitions of the season - Rachael and Mirai.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by PolymerBob View Post
    I don't know why the GP was created, but I feel it's important. Why? Let's assume there is no Grand Prix. What is the season? Nationals, 4CC, Olympics ( some years ) and Worlds. The season is late January to late March. Do you want a skating season 2 months long? Or would you rather it be 5 months long?
    It all depends. Some of the early season skating we see at the GP's is downright sloppy.

    If there was a some decent pro skating I might rather see that than a GP splatfest.

    The longer season is good in ways - but I simply disagree that a GP event or final matches the intensity of Natls or Worlds.

    Remember, at the GP's Michelle and Irina used to go shopping together. I doubt that happened at the Olympics.

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    Yes, Janetfan, but I think the GP season can be like "the first pancake." It's a bit sloppy, but you can't make a good second pancake without it. Maybe you and I don't find the programs so inspiring at the start of the season, but for the skaters it's a huge benefit. So in a way we viewers (both in the arena and at home on our couches) are helping the skaters try stuff out. Think of it as a dress rehearsal.

    It can also build audiences. Like you, I remember the days when the only times you could see skating all year on TV were at Nationals and Worlds, except in Olympic years. Having a longer season gives us more chances to see skating, which is great for us who are already mavens, but it's also good for people who are just getting acquainted with it.

    Moreover, it gives a lot of fledgling skaters the chance to be seen. You never know, but you might be seeing someone who in a year or two will be the one we watch with bated breath in the Olympic long program.

    If it's a choice between a splatfest and "decent pro skating," one could argue the issue, but they're not going to substitute any pro programs for the GP. They'll just take away the skating and leave us with Nats and Worlds.

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