Kim and Kwan to headline "All That Skate Summer 2010"

Blades of Passion said:

Yu-Na has never lost both the SP and LP at a single competition.

Click to expand...

An utterly astonishing achievement, even with the correction. The only thing more remarkable is, she has NEVER finished off the podium in her whole life in any competition at any level.

She is the richest female Athlete at the Olympics at age 19, and probably most made the most charitable donations among female athletes and people her age.

Click to expand...

Sonia Henie was reportedly worth US$50,000,000 (about US$200,000,000 in todays dollars).when she died, mostly accrued through investing all the money she earned as a Hollywood movie star after her skating career was over.

But she was stingy and mean, and even cheated her own brother out of his land holdings (so they say.) So good for Yu-na!

R.D. said:

I agree, I'll give her credit there. That's where she was so dominant this past season and no one else was even on the radar. Quite a rare feat to have someone like that. But anything else, she's competent, maybe decent, but there are other skaters who are better in those fields. JMHO.

Click to expand...

IMHO, she is one of the greatest in history both technically and artistically. Yes, we have different opinions. Fine.

Blades of Passion said:

os168 just typed his/her statement incorrectly. What he/she meant to say is Yu-Na has never lost both the SP and LP at a single competition. Which is true, but only because of bad judging.

Click to expand...

I would call it a good judging.

Mathman said:

Sonia Henie was reportedly worth US$50,000,000 (about US$200,000,000 in todays dollars).when she died, mostly accrued through investing all the money she earned as a Hollywood movie star after her skating career was over.

But she was stingy and mean, and even cheated her own brother out of his land holdings (so they say.) So good for Yu-na!

Click to expand...

Sonia was such a character, isn't she? I think they should make a movie on her (or is there one already?)

Hehe. Can you imagine if Yuna flops next year? LOL. I will be reading new threads/posts like, she is not that great of a skater.

Nobody is trying to undermine Yu-Na, ehdtkqorl123 (at least not me anyway).

I fought very hard for Yu-Na on multiple occasions when I felt unfair decisions had been made by the tech specialist against her. When that ridiculous "e" mark she got for her Triple Flip happened I was quite angry. Yu-Na has an excellent Flip jump and never should have had to change her jump combination to 3Lutz-3Toe in order to avoid those bogus edge calls. Her 3Flip-3Toe is the best in the history of ladies figure skating and I'm sad she had to remove it this past season because the way she flies into her 3Flip-3Toe is uncanny and her programs lose a little bit of spark with the 3Lutz-3Toe being there instead. Don't get me wrong, she's excellent at that combination too, but it just doesn't have quite the same explosive quality.

The other time she got screwed over was during the SP at the 2009 GPF, when her 3Toe in combination was called as underrotated. A completely ludicrous call. I was furious.

I strive to be objective about all things no matter what. I'm going to call it like I see it. Criticizing a skater about some aspect of their skating doesn't mean you dislike them or are out to get them.

cosmos said:

I would call it a good judging.

Click to expand...

Yes, you would, you're a completely unobjective fan. Nobody in their right mind thinks Yu-Na deserved to win the LP at 2010 Worlds. She fell twice and the performance lacked energy.

Blades of Passion said:

Nobody in their right mind thinks Yu-Na deserved to win the LP at 2010 Worlds. She fell twice and the performance lacked energy.

Click to expand...

She fell just once. and, yes, she lacked energy but so what? Mao didn't skate clean either. If you claim yourself an objective fan, then you need to provide the reasoning behind why you think it was ridiculous that Yuna won 2008 World LP. I hope you are not serious about this one.

Blades hates the way URs are/were called and I believe he/she thinks Nakano should've won the LP in 2008. I pretty sure the correct answer for who should've won the 2010 LP was "no one."

I also don't like how the URs were called before. The calls were ridiculously strict and inconsistent. However, I don't think Nakano would have won the FS even with the new rules (fully rotated jumps are still scored higher).

I strive to be objective about all things no matter what. I'm going to call it like I see it. Criticizing a skater about some aspect of their skating doesn't mean you dislike them or are out to get them.

Click to expand...

I'm the same way and I agree with the last sentence. Over the years people have assumed things but at the end of the day, I'm just an equal-opportunity skeptic.

R.D. said:

I'm the same way and I agree with the second sentence. Over the years people have assumed things but at the end of the day, I'm just an equal-opportunity skeptic.

Click to expand...

You don't provide even a fraction of the insightful analyses that Blades of Passion does, though, which makes certain people wonder, "What's R.D.'s point?"

prettykeys said:

You don't provide even a fraction of the insightful analyses that Blades of Passion does, though, which makes certain people wonder, "What's R.D.'s point?"

Click to expand...

Well, I don't possess the in-depth knowledge of the scoring system that she does, and AAMOF I never did. So sue me. If such knowledge has suddenly become a pre-requisite to post here, then I'll be the first to leave.

ETA: You missed the point too. I'm talking about stepping back and seeing the big picture without being partial to any of the skaters involved. This is what I strive for on the forums. Being a nonfan, it is easier to do so, but I'm far from perfect and sometimes emotions get the better of me (that is, when skater A's fans or detractors begin hurling the accusations). It happens to everybody. No one can have a truly 100% objective view as everyone's perspective is colored by his/her experiences.

cosmos said:

prettykeys said:

...for me, there is nothing wrong with bum-bum-having-fun music that a performer is having a great time with, because the audience will have a great time watching and feeling it, too. I don't need a piece of art to always be deep or profound, but I always want it to come from an honest place.

Click to expand...

BEN was always my favorite piece of YuNa's. However, performing BEN in front of 10,000 audience? No, this is a show, and BP is a far better choice for this kind of show. I think you are being too serious about YuNa's show programs. What is wrong with her perforimg a totally different piece for fun? Every piece of her performances can't be a pure form of art. And, this was her just first performance of BP.

Click to expand...

Did you actually read what I wrote? I'm asking for the soul: the dance inside a dance, leaping joyfully, which vibes with the whole body, with movements that come from the within the music and heart, not superficial gestures imitated from someone trying to teach the essence of "being cool". I gave my preference of style in combination with figure skating, but I will emphasize again that I have no inherent opposition to this kind of music or concept. Of course, if she wanted to put her soul into a different, more lyrical performance, then that is another way to do it, too.

I'm not even considering this a criticism against YuNa as much as it is towards David Wilson and maybe Brian Orser, too. :no: I feel like they should be giving more insight and guidance to the young, inexperienced YuNa as far as this art form (figure skating) is concerned. Maybe her 2010-2011 programs will correct me and put me in my place, and perhaps I am being too impatient. We are just wrapping up the Olympic year.

R.D. said:

Well, I don't possess the in-depth knowledge of the scoring system that she does, and AAMOF I never did. So sue me. If such knowledge has suddenly become a pre-requisite to post here, then I'll be the first to leave.

ETA: You missed the point too. I'm talking about stepping back and seeing the big picture without being partial to any of the skaters involved. This is what I strive for on the forums. Being a nonfan, it is easier to do so, but I'm far from perfect and sometimes emotions get the better of me (that is, when skater A's fans or detractors begin hurling the accusations). It happens to everybody. No one can have a truly 100% objective view as everyone's perspective is colored by his/her experiences.

Click to expand...

With you, TBH, I always miss "the point" (which has led me to wonder if there is any, and I know I haven't been the only one.) You kinda strike me as the "impartial for impartiality's sake" type of person who jumps in to mock people from your high horse when things get heated. On the other hand, Blades of Passion's objectivity comes from a passionately opinionated place and with a seeming intent to critique both the skaters and judges themselves. I would venture to guess that you have an interest in following figure skating and discussing it since you've been around long enough, but I don't really get much from your self-proclaimed objectivity.

cosmos said:

IMHO, she is one of the greatest in history both technically and artistically. Yes, we have different opinions. Fine.

Click to expand...

We do, but just let me give credit where it's due. It is rare to have both raw talent, determination, and consistency in performance. Yuna has all those three. MK did back in her days. Someone who can enchant a (particular) audience AND be able to do the hard jumps. IMO, that's the foundation for becoming one of the greats. Neither skater may be my particular cup of tea style-wise, but I know very well the impacts both have made. If Yuna can stick around and maintain that same level of technical excellence she used to power her way through the Olympic season, she'll easily become one of those greats. However, I personally can't help but think some of her biggest fans are giving her too much credit too soon, when we do not (yet) know her legacy past 2010. (Note that I'm targeting ONLY those who state she's the greatest as if it were fact. There are many that do, and then there are many that don't.) But if we're talking about Korea, then absolutely she's a game-changer. I'll just have to agree to disagree with her fans calling her the "greatest ever" because I still think she needs to prove that she has staying power first. After all, it was barely four years ago that she burst onto the scene, and two years ago that she really started pulling away from the field. Let's see if she can stay there.

Blades of Passion said:

Yes, you would, you're a completely unobjective fan.

Click to expand...

For me, you are one of the most biased and strongly opinionated people on this forum. What annoys me is that you claim you are objective. No, you're not.

R.D. said:

We do, but just let me give credit where it's due. It is rare to have both raw talent, determination, and consistency in performance. Yuna has all those three. MK did back in her days. Someone who can enchant a (particular) audience AND be able to do the hard jumps. IMO, that's the foundation for becoming one of the greats. Neither skater may be my particular cup of tea style-wise, but I know very well the impacts both have made. If Yuna can stick around and maintain that same level of technical excellence she used to power her way through the Olympic season, she'll easily become one of those greats. However, I personally can't help but think some of her biggest fans are giving her too much credit too soon, when we do not (yet) know her legacy past 2010. (Note that I'm targeting ONLY those who state she's the greatest as if it were fact. There are many that do, and then there are many that don't.) But if we're talking about Korea, then absolutely she's a game-changer. I'll just have to agree to disagree with her fans calling her the "greatest ever" because I still think she needs to prove that she has staying power first. After all, it was barely four years ago that she burst onto the scene, and two years ago that she really started pulling away from the field. Let's see if she can stay there.

Click to expand...

I have only rarely seen her fans who declare confidently "she is the greatest ever." People are always careful when they use the term "greatest ever." Even if a few fans say so, they don't think it is a fact. It is just what they feel as a fan, as fans of Kwan or Yugudin did (and still do). There will also be fans of some skaters who say so in the future. Don't be too serious about it.

However, it is a fact that both Kwan and Yagudin had (and has) a great number of fans. I believe, it is a fact that YuNa also has a great number of fans outside Korea. I believe it proves something about her, and I am happy about that.

GoPC2018 said:

She fell just once. and, yes, she lacked energy but so what? Mao didn't skate clean either. If you claim yourself an objective fan, then you need to provide the reasoning behind why you think it was ridiculous that Yuna won 2008 World LP. I hope you are not serious about this one.

Click to expand...

Why did you start talking about 2008 when I was talking about 2010?

Mao's program was technically perfect at 2010 Worlds. One jump was downgraded but I disagree with that call and even if it did deserve to be downgraded, the old penalty for underrotated jumps was retarded. Mao did far more than Yu-Na whichever way you look at it. You are correct about Yu-Na's program, she did only fall once and I remembered that incorrectly, but the mistake on her last jump was just as bad as a fall - she completely popped it and didn't rotate at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wU-UvAubJO4 : Yu-Na

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCBbIpE_fFk : Mao

In addition to the mistakes Yu-Na's performance was her most lifeless of the entire season. Now, comparatively, Mao's program is the worst of her entire career and the performance wasn't a lively one either, but there is still no way she should have been scored behind Yu-Na's poor performance.

As for 2008, Yukari Nakano was robbed. Her only mistake was underrotating the Triple Axel (completely overpenalized by the scoring system at the time) and she got a bogus downgrade on her second Triple Flip, which was not underrotated and in fact executed quite well. Yu-Na, in comparison, popped a Lutz open and underrotated her Salchow (and it didn't get downgraded either). So, even taking Mao Asada's performance out of the equation, Yu-Na should not have won the LP at 2008 Worlds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUpJ7g98eTM : Yu-Na

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EREmKthK3JY : Yukari

Results of 2008 Worlds for the Ladies should have been 1st: Mao, 2nd: Yukari, 3rd: Yu-Na, 4th: Kostner (I'm still infuriated that she placed above Yukari and Yu-Na here with her ugly Long Program), 5th: Rochette

cosmos said:

For me, you are one of the most biased and strongly opinionated people on this forum. What annoys me is that you claim you are objective. No, you're not.

Click to expand...

If I wasn't seen as one of the most opinionated people on the forum I wouldn't be doing a very good job, so thank you.

Please, by all means, point to the holes in my reasoning though. So far you haven't. I've written pages of meaningful thoughts and all you've said is, essentially, "YU-NA KIM rah rah rah!!!"

Let's not forget, you're the poster who is convinced Yu-Na can do a Quad Toeloop even though she has never attempted it before or even shown any signs of seriously training that jump.

Again, I don't know why we are talking about things not related to this thread at all, but regarding WC 2010, I don't think Yuna's LP was "lifeless" at all.

She fought back hard even though she was not in top mental/physical form, skated perfectly for the first half of the program and had she not fallen on what appeared to be a fully rotated triple salcow (which appeared to sap all her remaining energy and drive), I think she would have skated clean all the way, scored around 140, and the performance would have ranked as one of the greatest comebacks ever. Even with the fall and the popped double axel at the end (two easiest jumps in her program), Yuna still perfectly executed all of her difficult jumps, including the last triple lutz, which she often misses out on when she is tired, and objectively, as her score indicated, it was one of her better performances of Gershwin.

As a fan, it still saddens me that she did not win gold in WC2010, because, really, this was absolutely for Yuna's taking, and with all due respect to Mao, who is clearly a tremendous skater, Mao did not "win" it (Mao placed 2nd in both SP and LP) as much as Yuna "lost" it - after bombing her SP. I would not make that kind of statement at any other time Yuna loses and Mao wins, but really, in this particular case, I think that is a fair assessment.

Regarding her 1st place finish in LP, I thought it validated the fact that Yuna held superior "intangible" qualities over Mao - i.e. artistry and better designed program - as far as 2009-2010 season is concerned. Yuna with two mistakes prevailing over Mao with one downgrade by a slight margin sounds just right to me, especially considering the point differential between the two at the Olympics.

In any event, as people mentioned, the most striking fact about Yuna is that she has never finished off the podium ever in her career, and in every event she participated, she has finished 1st either in SP or LP. You may argue that some results were less deserving or what not, but you can't discredit the whole package. The truth is, Yuna comes from Korea, a country that has held no international influence or power compared to the likes of U.S., Japan or even Russia, and there have been many attempts from many sides to discredit her and bring her down. Heck, such attempts continue to go on as we speak, even after Yuna's historic Olympic win. When you examine Yuna's track record in such context, there is but one truth that emerges - that Yuna is undeniably a great skater.

YunaBliss said:

In any event, as people mentioned, the most striking fact about Yuna is that she has never finished off the podium ever in her career, and in every event she participated, she has finished 1st either in SP or LP. You may argue that some results were less deserving or what not, but you can't discredit the whole package. The truth is, Yuna comes from Korea, a country that has held no international influence or power compared to the likes of U.S., Japan or even Russia, and there have been many attempts from many sides to discredit her and bring her down. Heck, such attempts continue to go on as we speak, even after Yuna's historic Olympic win. When you examine Yuna's track record in such context, there is but one truth that emerges - that Yuna is undeniably a great skater.
.

Click to expand...

Just curious, but can you clarify what you mean?

And no, I am not discrediting Yuna--I think she is a wonderful, beautiful and gifted skater. Just kind of puzzled as to what you are talking about.

R.D. said:

We do, but just let me give credit where it's due. It is rare to have both raw talent, determination, and consistency in performance. Yuna has all those three. MK did back in her days. Someone who can enchant a (particular) audience AND be able to do the hard jumps. IMO, that's the foundation for becoming one of the greats. Neither skater may be my particular cup of tea style-wise, but I know very well the impacts both have made. If Yuna can stick around and maintain that same level of technical excellence she used to power her way through the Olympic season, she'll easily become one of those greats. However, I personally can't help but think some of her biggest fans are giving her too much credit too soon, when we do not (yet) know her legacy past 2010. (Note that I'm targeting ONLY those who state she's the greatest as if it were fact. There are many that do, and then there are many that don't.) But if we're talking about Korea, then absolutely she's a game-changer. I'll just have to agree to disagree with her fans calling her the "greatest ever" because I still think she needs to prove that she has staying power first. After all, it was barely four years ago that she burst onto the scene, and two years ago that she really started pulling away from the field. Let's see if she can stay there.

Click to expand...

I appreciate this post. But I don't buy the concept that she has yet to become "one of the greats" or that she still has things left to prove. She can continue to build on her legacy, but Yuna's historic legacy is already secured.

Having lived most of my life in the U.S., and having followed U.S. sports media all my life, I would guarantee that had Yuna been an American, and with her track record over the past 4 years, and winning the gold for the U.S. in such record-breaking fashion, we would have seen countless articles and commentaries from ESPN, NBC, CBS, Wilbon, etc. (not sure he follows figure skating, but anyways) already talking about whether Yuna is "the greatest ever."

And the ironic thing is that as much as Yuna is loved in Korea, I have never seen any Korean media proclaim her as the "greatest ever" - they always say she is the "currently the best in the world" (except to report the recent result of the USFSA poll^^).