Kim and Kwan to headline "All That Skate Summer 2010"

GoPC2018 said:

Hey, you are the one who first brought up that crap here. That just pissed me off. Can you just make a thread "Let's pick on Yuna/dislike her" along with the others instead of trolling every Yuna related thread and say "she's not good at this", "she shouldn't have won this" kind of thing.

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This is stupid. If you look at my posts at the beginning of the thread, I talked about how much I liked Yu-Na's show and even enjoyed her performance of Bulletproof. It's posters like who you couldn't handle me criticizing Ya-Na's performance of Meditation that have caused the thread to mutate into what it has.

GoPC2018 said:

Now you force me to say this. You said Yuna's salchow was underrotated, but I say Mao's 3T after 3F should definitely been downgraded. I'm afraid to add a clip here because someone will start blaming me for that.

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You are 100% incorrect. Mao's 3Flip-3Toe at 2008 Worlds was the best of her entire career and both jumps were fully rotated; not even near the 1/4 turn borderline mark. She deservedly received nearly as much +GOE for that combination as Yu-Na got for hers.

sunny0760 said:

You are distorting the facts, I believe.
Anyway, the results of this year's worlds are VERY problematic so if anyone is interested, look at this carefully.

http://www.isufs.org/results/wc2008/WC08_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

The fact is
1. Yuna(64.82) : 5 Triples(1 -GOE), 5 doubles.
2. Mao(61.89) : 5 Triples(1 -GOE), 1 DGed Triple, 4 doubles(1 -GOE).
3. Carolina(61.88) : 7 Triples(4 -GOE), 4 doubles(1 -GOE)
4. Yukari(56.98) : 5 Triples, 2 DGed Triple, 4 doubles

Mao's technical content is better than Yuna? Yuna's pop'ed 3L was almost as bad as Mao's first fall? I don't agree.

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#1 - The data you just posted is not "the facts". Both Yu-Na and Kostner had an underrotated Triple they were not penalized for, and Yukari was penalized for a jump that was fully rotated!

#2 - "Yuna's pop'ed 3L was almost as bad as Mao's first fall? I don't agree." - A single Lutz is worth half a point. Mao missing her Axel completely and falling on the ice incurred a -1 deduction. That is a difference of 1.5 points. So, yes, Yu-na's mistake WAS nearly as bad as Mao's. And that IS a fact.

Blades of Passion said:

Yu-Na's level of performance at 2010 Worlds was her worst of the season. Her speed and edge quality in comparison to other competitions was lower and she lacked excitement in her facial expressions. When she fell on the Salchow it wasn't just a quick fall, she took a lot of time to get back up and then just stood there for several seconds after she picked herself off the ice. It was extremely detrimental to the flow of the program. And then completely popping the axel at the end and kind of ho-humming her way into the final combination spin, that too detracted from the program.

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The supremacy of her Gershwin program is precisely because it is so delicate that any mistakes would indeed break the flow of the program and making mistake bigger than it really is. It would require someone of higher learning to make this program work. The only way to perform this program well, require superb control, the speed must appear as effortless and nothing must be rushed, and most importantly great musicality. It is skating choreographed and rifting to blues and jazz.

While I agree with your assessment that fall in Salchow did indeed being detrimental to the flow of the program, but that is only to be expected because of the program’s fragility and delicacy.

In Chinese forums people have even accused of Yuna of 'bad attitude' to the sport for not getting up quicker or appear more enthusiastic throughout the program, but they failed to realize this piece choreography must be seamlessly integrated with every nuances of the music phrases far more than a conventional performance that can hide behind rhythms and beats. Yuna got up slow, because she must tune her performance with the music, otherwise the rest of the program would look extremely odd and appear out of tune.

If you rewatch and listen, if she get up any faster or slower, the rest of the program couldn't possibly work. Actually it is also the reason she ended repeated her spins in her SP, if to avoid breaking the rules, she’d have to simply stand there for may be 6,7 seconds until it is her queue to continue the rest of her performance. Now that would be the far worse scenario as a performer rather than a sportswoman who just want to gain points, or avoid loosing them. Yuna chose arts over sport, and she paid the price.

While her SP is probably her worst ever in terms of score, I am actually comforted by the fact that all the mistakes she made were clearly the easiest elements she never even make in practice. Her mistakes were clearly mental rather than any lack of skill or technique.

It shows she is human, she is fallible, she is young, and is a good lesson to learn even at the top of the world. It is a good humble pie to have, and set up a good challenge next day which she prevailed with LP even clearly she wasn’t on form.

R.D. said:

Don't speak Korean so I won't speak for their media. But in this day and age of the internet, blogs and forums, I'd argue that the fans have nearly just as loud a voice as the press. And many of THEM are "proclaiming her as the 'greatest ever'", even if they are not using those specific words. If we are speaking of the CURRENT GENERATION though, then yes, it is fair to claim that she is the best right now. But of all-time? IMHO that's a HUGE stretch at the moment.

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The only poll that has recently proclaiming her as the greatest ever is the US figure skating facebook poll (she won by something like 98% majority for the record), now you can hardly blame her or her fans for that! lol...

Anyways, it is always very silly to call anyone greatest of all time, it is simply not possible. It is like wasting time debating whether the winner is legit, you say this, i think that, every one proclaim their opinions as fact, and around and around we go.

The fact is these type of poll results generally do change every year. If she did win the same poll for at least the next decade with at least the majority of the critics agrees, then surely democratic process means something (if it doesn't already)

Those were good thoughts, os168.

I highly disagree with you about the fall on the Salchow, though. She didn't get up slowly for any kind of artistic purpose, she got up slowly because she was shocked that she had fallen and also heartbroken that she knew her chance of winning was surely gone.

Blades of Passion said:

Those were good thoughts, os168.

I highly disagree with you about the fall on the Salchow, though. She didn't get up slowly for any kind of artistic purpose, she got up slowly because she was shocked that she had fallen and also heartbroken that she knew her chance of winning was surely gone.

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Yes her face revealed she was shocked (and probably very annoyed with herself), it is the human reaction, but other than a second flash of emotions, her body was immediately on auto pilot tuning itself to the music and next move. She was still basically professional about it and continued on to complete her most difficult jumps avoiding doing a Kostner at Olympics, especially she was already at 7th place.

She shouldn't have to get up any faster or appear any more enthusiastic than she did given the circumstances. If she smiled, it would look a bit weird as if she she wasn't taking this championship seriously. In any case, what's done is done. I am personally always had been fascinated by the worst performance or dilemma of champions, it tells you a lot about the person and how they deal with it. (Sorry to appear hijacking this thread.. i will go back to lurking mode now )

Blades of Passion said:

The jump shouldn't have been downgraded, though. That's the problem.

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They certainly looked much better than the ones in Olympics. It's just weird that both were ratified in Olympics but not in Worlds. Judges need to be consistent on that. The new rules will surely help her a lot though.

Blades of Passion said:

Yu-Na Kim also received an unfair downgrade at 2010 Worlds. Her 3Flip in the short program was downgraded, but the rotation was not more than 1/4 short. Her problem with that jump was just that she landed on the inside edge of the blade. Yu-Na was placed 7th in the SP for what was definitely her worst performance ever in a Short Program, but I actually would have had her 4th despite all the flaws. That Flip didn't deserve to be downgraded, she executed a beautiful 3Lutz-3Toe combination, and so many other competitors had problems with their programs as well.

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So I was not the only one in that when I complained about this right after the Worlds. well, we are not from two different planets after all. lol

Blades of Passion said:

This is stupid. If you look at my posts at the beginning of the thread, I talked about how much I liked Yu-Na's show and even enjoyed her performance of Bulletproof. It's posters like who you couldn't handle me criticizing Ya-Na's performance of Meditation that have caused the thread to mutate into what it has.

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well, it's good for you that you actually liked the show and enjoyed her new gala. I was little pissed because you went too far, rather off-topic, to put down her other major accomplishments like you did in Yuna news thread.

Blades of Passion said:

You are 100% incorrect. Mao's 3Flip-3Toe at 2008 Worlds was the best of her entire career and both jumps were fully rotated; not even near the 1/4 turn borderline mark. She deservedly received nearly as much +GOE for that combination as Yu-Na got for hers.

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well, first of all it's funny that you call me 100% incorrect. how are you so sure. so are you saying that you are 100% correct? certainly don't think so. I don't know, maybe I'm so used to Yuna's 3F-3T, but Mao's at that competition definitely looked underrotated to me. Watch how much she pre-rotates and where exactly her toe lands. I'm not saying this just because you discredited Yuna's 3S. That was just very apparent to my eyes.

We really need to make a 'Mao News' thread, don't we?

Blades of Passion said:

Those were good thoughts, os168.

I highly disagree with you about the fall on the Salchow, though. She didn't get up slowly for any kind of artistic purpose, she got up slowly because she was shocked that she had fallen and also heartbroken that she knew her chance of winning was surely gone.

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You are definitely wrong on that one. I'm not saying it's 100% tho.

Blades of Passion said:

#1 - The data you just posted is not "the facts". Both Yu-Na and Kostner had an underrotated Triple they were not penalized for, and Yukari was penalized for a jump that was fully rotated!

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They are THE FACTS on the paper. The rest is just your opinion which I don't really care about.

Blades of Passion said:

#2 - "Yuna's pop'ed 3L was almost as bad as Mao's first fall? I don't agree." - A single Lutz is worth half a point. Mao missing her Axel completely and falling on the ice incurred a -1 deduction. That is a difference of 1.5 points. So, yes, Yu-na's mistake WAS nearly as bad as Mao's. And that IS a fact.

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A fall is A LOT worse than a singled jump like Scott said in Skate America 09 when Yuna almost semi-intentionally singled her loop. The point difference is not that big, but a fall certainly affects the rest of program and it gives a bad impression to both audience and judges.

GoPC2018 said:

well, first of all it's funny that you call me 100% incorrect. how are you so sure. so are you saying that you are 100% correct? certainly don't think so. I don't know, maybe I'm so used to Yuna's 3F-3T, but Mao's at that competition definitely looked underrotated to me. Watch how much she pre-rotates and where exactly her toe lands. I'm not saying this just because you discredited Yuna's 3S. That was just very apparent to my eyes.

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I watched that program many times and I felt she fully rotated that combination. Most of the judges give it plus GOE and I don't think they gave her slack since they did downgrade her other combo. I also don't remember any commentators calling that jump unlike at 4CC where she did underrotate it. Maybe it's because you're used to how Yuna does that combination but Mao definitely rotated that combo at that event.

prettykeys said:

^ Or, you could always go to the fan forums. Seriously, what is the point of doing your fanboy-gushing here and demanding non-gushers to stay out? It's a mixed skating forum...non-YuNa fans have the right to read and post in threads about YuNa here.

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It is not about gusher or non-gusher thing. What GoPC demands is "stick to the topic". I know every thread goes off-topic, but is it that wrong to try to keep it?

I have been away for a while and glad to see GS remains as PETTY as ever

What an unbelievable thread this is

I have read that Yuna has "no soul", that Yuna will never be artistic compared to N. American skaters, how several of her jumps were UR'ed back in '08, how Orser should be fired coz a few did not like her new Gala program

When I think of Yuna it always goes back to this program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3F8quUBBf0

I don't know if I ever saw such great and soulful skating from such a young girl.........

Maybe from Michelle - but I still think Chen-Lu should have won Worlds back in '96.

I think several pages ago it was good old RD who said "it's only an exhibition."
I agree and although I have barely watched the clips it seems to me that the fans in attendance and most who watched the clips liked it.

Doesn't that count anymore?

I also think Sasha's new program - the one with the hat and garters has potential to be a real showstopper!

At the moment my heart is still in AFRICA - and the World Cup made me realize once again why Football/soccer IS THE World's greatest sport and the Wolrd Cup is by far the World's greatest sporting event.

can someone post me the videos of the performances of michelle, cause it is really impossible to go through 20 pages with the summer internet I have now avalaible, pleeassee?

seniorita said:

can someone post me the videos of the performances of michelle, cause it is really impossible to go through 20 pages with the summer internet I have now avalaible, pleeassee?

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http://yunaforum.com/wiki/entire_show

^ Excludes Michelle's second performance because Sony claimed 'copyright infringement'.

I have the link to the AVI file of it, so if you want it, so PM me.

janetfan said:

I have been away for a while and glad to see GS remains as PETTY as ever

What an unbelievable thread this is

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Yep.

Sony only claimed copyright infringement in certain countries. Possibly senorita can view it, not being in the US. And in case you only want to watch Michelle, senorita:

No One
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Psb0iAx66yQ

Primitive
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq50n4TXe9g&feature=fvw

Hero (with Yu Na Kim)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nairX3PZsl4&feature=related

Thank you for vids, I can see all 3 videos from here
I felt a little akward in their skate with Mariah Carey song, but I dont know why...

Great fan-cam (my favorite) of Sunday's final performance of Bulletproof:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94IYtARg4Gw...layer_embedded#!

Simply spectacular. Gives you a sense of how fast she really skates when you see her live.

seniorita said:

I felt a little akward in their skate with Mariah Carey song, but I dont know why...

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Yeah, I felt the same way. It was def. touching, but I also thought the choreography didn't live up to the skaters ... =/

When I think of Yuna it always goes back to this program:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3F8quUBBf0

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One of my favorites and one of the few programs of yu na that I easily remember. When I remember moves from certain programs without even trying hard it's made it's impact and that happened to me with almost all of Michelle's programs....I guess this is off the topic of this thread though.


Okay I went back and read a few post and I thought this was mostly about the gala. This thread seems to be about something else like Worlds 2010 or something. Should a new thread be started. Just wondering.