I think that the international judges never prefered Stojko, if they had even the remotest possibility to choose somebody else, LOL. I can well understand that, Stojko´s person just did not look good on the ice, his body type was really awful looking and he had almost no presentation talent. Urmanov had an elegant look on the ice, a wonderfully straight back, great speed (Stojko is very slow compared to Urmanov) and definetely more artistry than Stojko. No wonder that in 1994 Urmanov won 6-1 against Stojko. Even the Canadian judge chose Urmanov. Only the French judge chose Stojko...
Urmanov had awful spins, but in those days they did not count, as far as I have understood. That is the reason why older Russian male skaters (e.g. Plushenko) still have spins that do not compare so well to other skaters.
The freeskate result, in my opinion:
5. Stojko (technically difficult, but everything else lacking
Unfortunately Petrenko had problems in the sp, which surely were caused because of the Esthonian skater who competed before Petrenko. That young Esthonian skater had to stop as all the screws dropped from his skates and he had to gather them from the ice. I have always believed that it was sabotage to prevent Petrenko from winning his second title.
Last edited by Jaana; 06-20-2010 at 04:58 AM.
leave no stone unturned
Blades I said just a line that didn't include Plushenko in it nor best technical content, and it was supposed to be a joke concerning the only man who do 3-3 in competition back in 1994 but I ll be careful what I say next time not to derail a thread especially in the direction of Vancouver Olympics.
Originally Posted by Blades of Passion
Skating is art, if you let it be.
Haha, I actually didn't mind.
I like talking about skating.
I'm not going to get into the Vancouver argument, Blades, but one thing you brought up felt like a true parallel to 1994: Takahashi's long program. Like Browning, he's prodigiously gifted in all the areas of skating: jumps, bladework, and expressive artistry. When you watch either of these guys, you understand what's so special about figure skating.
Of course I hope that Takahashi makes it to the next Olympics and wins there, but whether he does or not, he'll still be the best of the current crop to me. In two Olympics (three, counting his freshman trip to the 88 Games), Browning never won a medal of any kind, but he's still the in many eyes greatest skater of his time. And this is why we watch: to see guys like Browning whenever he shows up. Same with Daisuke.
You see that backloading jumps basically means no quads anymore. Takahashi and Lysacek can no longer do quads. COP rewards quadless backloaded programs and maybe that is what Plushenko should have done if he wanted to win. Doing a quad in a worldwide competitions means you lose the competition to people with backloaded triple jumps.
My opinon on 1994 was heavily influenced by the book the Winter Olympics by Wellschinsky or whatever his name is and its all the same with Stojko being slow with big jumps no artistry and Urmanov seemingly to be more artistic with his classical music and he can basicallhy do all the jumps. It is like classical music beat stojko's music.
Personally I liked candellro the the best.
Last edited by gmyers; 06-20-2010 at 01:29 PM.
Personally I believe in the long term the best thing that ever happened to Stojko was losing the 94 Olympic Gold. Since while he was probably robbed there he could milk the often false storyline "the judges dont accept my style" "the judges always hammer me in artistic scores" "the judges never give me any benefit of doubt" and was IMO contrary to what he thinks blatantly OVERSCORED the remainder of her career, both on presentation and technical marks. I could make a long list of medals I dont think he even deserved. And that certainly was the last time he would ever be remotedly robbed of anything (it is hilarious he or anyone else would think otherwise).
Skating is art, if you let it be.
Well post-1994 I wouldn't say he was ever really robbed, but I would place his SP at 1998 Olympics above Kulik's.
I agree that after 1994 it was almost never about the judges "not accepting his style". His programs were simply never as interesting after that. Stojko's LP in 1994 is the definitive version of him as a skater. I really liked his SP in 1998 but otherwise, yeah, he wasn't very interesting. It was his jumping that made him relevant.
Funny how in 2002 he skated his SP from 1998 and his LP from 1994...basically the only two good programs he ever had.
Last edited by Blades of Passion; 06-20-2010 at 05:39 PM.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that when Stojko was competing, some commentator or other pointed out that he very rarely did one-foot footwork or changed direction or edges. His work had a rough vitality, and he helped to advance the complexity of jumps. Wasn't he the first to do a quad in combination? (Or some other breakthrough). As has been pointed out, his skating wasn't as varied as that of Browning or Yagudin, or Plushenko for that matter. But there was certainly room for a skater like him, just as in movies there was room for both Fred Astaire and John Wayne.
Stoijko was the first to do a 4-2 and a 4-3.
Last edited by ImaginaryPogue; 06-20-2010 at 10:13 PM.
To me Lysacek skated for SILVER the night of the long program. The SP was all about redemption, the LP was just "ok, Plushenko's gonna get gold, now I gotta make sure I'm in contention for Silver, here we go."... the passion he had in Carmen and Tosca was severely lacking in his Olympic LP. /tangent
Originally Posted by Blades of Passion
and to answer Seniorita's question: to put it mildly. Yes, Browning BOMBED the SP. It wasn't as horrid as, say, his 1992 SP, but it was no less depressing. He fell on the triple flip out of steps (after a LOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGG telegraph really), he stumbled at the beginning of the straightline footwork (though I don't think it really looked like a stumble so it could have been forgiven) and he popped the double axel into a swinging leg single axel. Still, it's one of my favorite competitive programs of his because I love the choreography. - it's not on Youtube (probably a good thing) though his 1992 SP is, weird...here's the horrible interview Rod Black did after that SP though... - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3b8ss4t7N4
Oh, that interview with Kurt is heart-wrenching. And yet he picked himself up and skated so beautifully for the long program. If you look at the menu to the side of that video, there's a video called something like "Kurt Browning medal." That details the way Canadian fans collected gold rings and other items and had them melted down into a special maple leaf medal for Kurt--one of a kind, just like him.
When Evan finished I did not expect his program to be good enough for the gold. Everyone else in the final flight just skated alot worse than I expected them to. So I agree he was skating for a medal and not gold with that performance, but that was just how things turned out.
Originally Posted by Tonichelle
I dont think Shizuka was skating for the gold with her 2006 performance either.
Originally Posted by Olympia
I also think that Urmanov deserved to win, and I suspect that a lot of posters who have derided his performance would agree if this board were not so North American-centric.
Originally Posted by Jaana
Wicked Yankee Girl
I think Urmanov deserved to win, considering that spins in the LP were treated as a choreographic frill back in 1994 rather than an actual graded element, a little check off box, yup did a spin ...sort of, and his jumps were considerably better. However you cannot believe how much I detest the choreography of that program-I have no idea why he did such a ridiculous hokey pokey kind of move with his knees shifting in and out at the beginning and mimed skating to the boards, where I thought perhaps he had broken a lace or something and then pretending to answer a phone. Heck I don't know who he is supposed to be calling, but I picture it being his coach: Urmanov: "It's cold out here." Coach: "Keep skating!"
Particularly I detest his choreography when he is dressed to skate to classical music, and the music actually is classical music. (There is a phone in the 18th century?? Did they dance the hokey pokey then????)
If you asked me where the choreo and interp marks (COP) should be for the programs, definitely Browning, Candeloro, and Stojko all beat Urmanov in that department. And Petrenko, too, should have better PCS-he gave Urmanov a tutorial about how the classical program should be skated, with verve, and with classical class.
But you didn't-you asked for overall score in the rules of that day.
Last edited by dorispulaski; 06-21-2010 at 08:34 AM.