Rank and Rate the top 5 Men's Long Programs of the 1994 Olympics.

**blue_idealist** · 06-22-2010, 06:15 PM

I hate how this turned from ranking and rating 1994 Olympics programs to debating AGAIN about Lysacek vs. Plushenko and the quad vs. transitions. I came back to see what other people thought of the 1994 performances.. but no luck here I guess *sigh*

**Blades of Passion** · 06-22-2010, 06:51 PM

Yes, it would be nice to get back on topic.

**gmyers** · 06-22-2010, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue

Agreed. Jumps have gone backwards. Agreed, I want it all. I do. How awesome would Takahashi's program been if he had landed a fully rotated quad flip? BUT I still think you're being too reductive here.

I can be reductive but I am only trying to understand the past three seasons of mens skating.

**Olympia** · 06-22-2010, 10:19 PM

Okay, I'll try to swing things back to 1994. Ride with me on this one, folks.

Can anyone remember, was that the only year that eligible skaters were welcomed back into the Olympics? It's interesting to compare the results of the returning male pros with those of other disciplines. Of course the pairs did best, with G and G finishing in gold. Ice dance had one medal, with Torvill and Dean nabbing bronze. (And they wuzrobbed!) The returning men--Boitano and Petrenko--didn't win anything. Women had what the French call a succes d'estime, a metaphorical victory, as Witt, with no chance to medal, closed out the competition with "Where Have All the Flowers Gone," which she performed in tribute to the beleaguered city of Sarajevo.

**gmyers** · 06-23-2010, 02:50 AM

1994 was the first year where pro - skaters who only participated in ISU apporved events could compete at the Olympics. Ever since 1994 it has been allowed.

**Jaana** · 06-23-2010, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by gmyers

I can be reductive but I am only trying to understand the past three seasons of mens skating.

I think that the matter is rather simple: Skaters get points from all elements they are doing on the ice and the guys with successful quad (which is one element) just happened not to be good enough in some other elements in those competitions. One must specifically remember that it was in technical elements that Buttle in WC and Lysacek in WC and Olympics won over the quys with a quad.

**Tonichelle** · 06-23-2010, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by gmyers

1994 was the first year where pro - skaters who only participated in ISU apporved events could compete at the Olympics. Ever since 1994 it has been allowed.

iirc that was repealled. They still have olympic elligible vs pro. Probably due to the negative feedback.

**Olympia** · 06-23-2010, 03:05 PM

Thanks for the update, Tonichelle. That sounds right. After all, I can't recollect any pro skaters returning for later Games. I also suspect that Kwan might have joined some pro productions (individual televised affairs, not necessarily a long tour such as SOI) somewhere in there if she'd been allowed to keep competing at the same time.

**gmyers** · 06-23-2010, 03:47 PM

Originally Posted by Jaana

I think that the matter is rather simple: Skaters get points from all elements they are doing on the ice and the guys with successful quad (which is one element) just happened not to be good enough in some other elements in those competitions. One must specifically remember that it was in technical elements that Buttle in WC and Lysacek in WC and Olympics won over the quys with a quad.

It's the same thing with Takahashi as well. So am I really supposed to believe skaters with quads aren't good enough to win competitions anymore and only skaters who don't do quads are good enough to win competitions. That was not the case from 1997 to 2007 so maybe it how the scoring system is being used right now by the judges who are saying don't do quads anymore to skaters. For the 2010/2011 season I wont predict anyone who has a quad to win a major competition.

Also about the pros in competition-that makes sense. Shows why I couldn't think of any returning pros after 1994 just repeat amateurs.

**pangtongfan** · 06-23-2010, 06:54 PM

Like I said the skaters who have quads who are good enough to win competitions keep screwing up in big events. Takahashi's history speaks for himself, but his performance from Worlds would have probably been good enough to win the Olympics even though it wasnt perfect. Joubert's recent history speaks for itself as well, and he has poorly thought out jump layouts, some lower level elements, and has let his presentation slide since leaving Browning. Abbott and Verner are king headcases. And Plushenko really is way way past his prime and a weak skater outside of the jumps these days and he still would have won the Olympics with his quad if he had just done one of his many shaky jumps that night a bit better or changed one thing about his COP-unfriendly jump layout.

One cant blame the judges.

**Blades of Passion** · 06-23-2010, 09:59 PM

So far, only 2 people have properly responded to my thread...which was to rate and rank the 5 performances I linked from the 1994 Olympics. There are several posters who have stated their favorite performance of the night, but I can't count those since they didn't rank all 5. As such, here are the results so far from the three of us who have voted:

1. Stojko (1st, 1st, 5th)
2. Browning (2nd, 2nd, 4th)
3. Urmanov (1st, 4th, 4th)
4. Candeloro (2nd, 3rd, 5th)
5. Petrenko (3rd, 3rd, 5th)

EDIT - BTW, thank you very much for your thoughts on the first couple pages, Spun Silver, Olympia, and pangtongfan, although you didn't actually write a ranking of the 5 Men, so I don't want to assume your exact placements.

**Spun Silver** · 06-23-2010, 10:27 PM

Hey, I did so rank.

I wrote:

Still, I'd agree with your rankings except that I'd put Urmanov on the bottom.

IOW:
1. Stojko
2. Browning
3. Candeloro
4. Petrenko
5. Urmanov

Oh-kay? Oh-kay.

**Blades of Passion** · 06-23-2010, 10:30 PM

Oh, okay! I'll tally it into the count after more people add some votes.

**gmyers** · 06-23-2010, 11:42 PM

I didn't rank!
1. Candalero
2. Urmanov
3. Stojko
4. Browning
5. Petrenko

**Olympia** · 06-23-2010, 11:57 PM

Very well, Blades, if you insist. I apologize for not committing to a real ranking earlier. I always second-guess myself on these things.

Your analysis and descriptions are so wonderful and clear, and I referred to them as I went back and reviewed the tapes. I'll agree with your rankings, except I'll put Browning above Stojko. It's only partially out of bias. (But what's wrong with bias?) Browning did the most to wed movement to music--there's one bit in there, for example, where he stroked exactly to the music, and it seemed completely natural and part of the flow. The split jump from nothing, the spreadeagles, and other moves gave such visual variety to the pictures he created. Besides, his skating skills are to die for. I know he completely flubbed that non-triple Axel, and I suppose I should take off for the absence of a lutz, but the jumps he did execute turn like superfast corkscrews in the air, and--well, I'm not a judge, and the medals have already been handed out, and he's just such a riveting skater to watch. As for the others, Stojko did a fine job and actually did one or two of the nicer spins. Candeloro has a unique, loose-limbed athleticism; he practically seems to be striding across the ice. He builds a character, takes control and pulls us in, and also does those huge jumps. I didn't move Urmanov up because that spin was a debacle, though I'm fine with the fact that the real judges gave him the gold that night. Petrenko didn't do anything to make me want to lift him above any of the others, though you can see his meticulous positions and smooth skating.

So:
Browning
Stojko
Candeloro
Urmanov
Petrenko