Rank and Rate the top 5 Men's Long Programs of the 1994 Olympics. | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Rank and Rate the top 5 Men's Long Programs of the 1994 Olympics.

pangtongfan

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Jun 16, 2010
Personally I believe in the long term the best thing that ever happened to Stojko was losing the 94 Olympic Gold. Since while he was probably robbed there he could milk the often false storyline "the judges dont accept my style" "the judges always hammer me in artistic scores" "the judges never give me any benefit of doubt" and was IMO contrary to what he thinks blatantly OVERSCORED the remainder of her career, both on presentation and technical marks. I could make a long list of medals I dont think he even deserved. And that certainly was the last time he would ever be remotedly robbed of anything (it is hilarious he or anyone else would think otherwise).
 

Blades of Passion

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Well post-1994 I wouldn't say he was ever really robbed, but I would place his SP at 1998 Olympics above Kulik's.

I agree that after 1994 it was almost never about the judges "not accepting his style". His programs were simply never as interesting after that. Stojko's LP in 1994 is the definitive version of him as a skater. I really liked his SP in 1998 but otherwise, yeah, he wasn't very interesting. It was his jumping that made him relevant.

Funny how in 2002 he skated his SP from 1998 and his LP from 1994...basically the only two good programs he ever had.
 
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Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall that when Stojko was competing, some commentator or other pointed out that he very rarely did one-foot footwork or changed direction or edges. His work had a rough vitality, and he helped to advance the complexity of jumps. Wasn't he the first to do a quad in combination? (Or some other breakthrough). As has been pointed out, his skating wasn't as varied as that of Browning or Yagudin, or Plushenko for that matter. But there was certainly room for a skater like him, just as in movies there was room for both Fred Astaire and John Wayne.
 

Tonichelle

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4. Artistically I prefer Plushenko's LP to Lysacek's. For Plushenko it's definitely one of his weakest Long Programs but he still shows greater personality and originality of movement and relation to the music than Lysacek, who literally skated like a robot. It's sad that someone with such beautiful body line has no soul. Everything he did was completely predictable and there was no sense of personal involvement with the music (notice how he finishes the program ahead of the music).

To me Lysacek skated for SILVER the night of the long program. The SP was all about redemption, the LP was just "ok, Plushenko's gonna get gold, now I gotta make sure I'm in contention for Silver, here we go."... the passion he had in Carmen and Tosca was severely lacking in his Olympic LP. /tangent

and to answer Seniorita's question: to put it mildly. Yes, Browning BOMBED the SP. It wasn't as horrid as, say, his 1992 SP, but it was no less depressing. He fell on the triple flip out of steps (after a LOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGG telegraph really), he stumbled at the beginning of the straightline footwork (though I don't think it really looked like a stumble so it could have been forgiven) and he popped the double axel into a swinging leg single axel. Still, it's one of my favorite competitive programs of his :laugh: because I love the choreography. - it's not on Youtube (probably a good thing) though his 1992 SP is, weird...here's the horrible interview Rod Black did after that SP though... :cry: - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3b8ss4t7N4
 
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Aug 16, 2009
Oh, that interview with Kurt is heart-wrenching. And yet he picked himself up and skated so beautifully for the long program. If you look at the menu to the side of that video, there's a video called something like "Kurt Browning medal." That details the way Canadian fans collected gold rings and other items and had them melted down into a special maple leaf medal for Kurt--one of a kind, just like him.
 

pangtongfan

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To me Lysacek skated for SILVER the night of the long program. The SP was all about redemption, the LP was just "ok, Plushenko's gonna get gold, now I gotta make sure I'm in contention for Silver, here we go."... the passion he had in Carmen and Tosca was severely lacking in his Olympic LP. /tangent

and to answer Seniorita's question: to put it mildly. Yes, Browning BOMBED the SP. It wasn't as horrid as, say, his 1992 SP, but it was no less depressing. He fell on the triple flip out of steps (after a LOOOOOOONNNNNNNGGGG telegraph really), he stumbled at the beginning of the straightline footwork (though I don't think it really looked like a stumble so it could have been forgiven) and he popped the double axel into a swinging leg single axel. Still, it's one of my favorite competitive programs of his :laugh: because I love the choreography. - it's not on Youtube (probably a good thing) though his 1992 SP is, weird...here's the horrible interview Rod Black did after that SP though... :cry: - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3b8ss4t7N4

When Evan finished I did not expect his program to be good enough for the gold. Everyone else in the final flight just skated alot worse than I expected them to. So I agree he was skating for a medal and not gold with that performance, but that was just how things turned out.

I dont think Shizuka was skating for the gold with her 2006 performance either.
 

goldenpleasures

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Jan 1, 2006
The freeskate result, in my opinion:

1. Urmanov
2. Candeloro
3. Petrenko
4. Browning
5. Stojko (technically difficult, but everything else lacking

I also think that Urmanov deserved to win, and I suspect that a lot of posters who have derided his performance would agree if this board were not so North American-centric.
 

dorispulaski

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I think Urmanov deserved to win, considering that spins in the LP were treated as a choreographic frill back in 1994 rather than an actual graded element, a little check off box, yup did a spin ...sort of, and his jumps were considerably better. However you cannot believe how much I detest the choreography of that program-I have no idea why he did such a ridiculous hokey pokey kind of move with his knees shifting in and out at the beginning and mimed skating to the boards, where I thought perhaps he had broken a lace or something and then pretending to answer a phone. Heck I don't know who he is supposed to be calling, but I picture it being his coach: Urmanov: "It's cold out here." Coach: "Keep skating!"

Particularly I detest his choreography when he is dressed to skate to classical music, and the music actually is classical music. (There is a phone in the 18th century?? Did they dance the hokey pokey then????)

If you asked me where the choreo and interp marks (COP) should be for the programs, definitely Browning, Candeloro, and Stojko all beat Urmanov in that department. And Petrenko, too, should have better PCS-he gave Urmanov a tutorial about how the classical program should be skated, with verve, and with classical class.

But you didn't-you asked for overall score in the rules of that day.
 
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seniorita

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Jun 3, 2008
there's the horrible interview Rod Black did after that SP though... :cry: - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3b8ss4t7N4

As I said I liked his Lp most of all, I was so curious how bad he could have been in sp that I found his sp and watched it, and ..oh my:jaw:

(There is a phone in the 18th century?? Did they dance the hokey pokey then????)

Maybe his skating character can claim he found the first sort of telephone before Mr Bell, he is an Olympic Champion, he can do everything:cool:
 
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And the worst of it, Seniorita, was that he did that first triple axel beautifully, as I recall, so one thought that he was out of the woods. But that makes his lovely long program even more impressive. He was skating just for pride at that point, and notice how many of us count that as our favorite program of the five.

I'm wondering whether you experts on this site have anything to say about the Canadian tradition of teaching skating. I've noticed that, especially in men and pairs, Canadians seem to have an extra smoothness in their skating. Even skaters who don't end up at the top of things, for example Hough and Ladret, seem to have an extra snap to their quality of movement. Is it an ankles-down thing, or an ankles-up thing? Is it soft knees? Or is it just coincidence? I'm thinking particularly of Orser, Browning, Patrick Chan, Underhill/Martini, and Sale/Pelletier. (Not Stojko, though. Impressive as his jumps are, his bladework is just utilitarian to me.) Is there a special approach to teaching that Canadian coaches take? Russians certainly have had some trademark qualities--the use of dance, the endless practicing of just stroking around the rink--but does Canada have anything characteristic that we know about?

Edit: Eek! And Buttle, of course. How could I have forgotten Buttle?
 

Jaana

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When Evan finished I did not expect his program to be good enough for the gold. Everyone else in the final flight just skated alot worse than I expected them to. So I agree he was skating for a medal and not gold with that performance, but that was just how things turned out.

I dont think Shizuka was skating for the gold with her 2006 performance either.

I did wonder that Shizuka did not do a triple-triple combination, but otherwise she was amazing, IMO. Both she and Evan skated as well as they could under the circumstances.

I did not expect Evan to do a quad, since I had heard about his injury. I have understood that in Vancouver Evan skated as well in practices and in competition. Besides, he skated his whole programme the way it was in competition, too. I saw Evan´s freeskate on tv live and felt very happy for his wonderful performance. The live audience shared my opinion, LOL. I thought though that the judges will just favour the reigning Olympic champion. I was surprised that Plushenko had so many difficulties in jumping, but I still thought that he will be put as a winner. It was a wonderful surprise for me that Evan won after all... He sure deserved it, IMO.
 
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gmyers

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Mar 6, 2010
He didn't do a quad to win the world championship - everyone knows it doesn't pay to do quads anymore but rather load up on jumps after the halfway point. Also it takes a long time to set up a quad so you can get some tranistion marks going into a triple for which it takes less time to set up.
 

mskater93

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Oct 22, 2005
gmeyers, you always write the same thing. If Plushenko's jumps had been a little more "easy" on the eye (not rotating out of the circle, soft flowing landings, not looking like he was going to splat on impact) he would have won.
 

ImaginaryPogue

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Jun 3, 2009
gmeyers, you always write the same thing. If Plushenko's jumps had been a little more "easy" on the eye (not rotating out of the circle, soft flowing landings, not looking like he was going to splat on impact) he would have won.

THANK-YOU

The thing Plushenko could've done to win? Land his jumps better than he did. That would've made the difference (seriously). No one argues Lambiel (who had two fully rotated quads, one in combination) should've beat Lysacek (oh, and Lambiel had higher level footwork for one of them as well, and better overall PCS) because Lambiel didn't earn the GOEs on his elements.
 
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I agree, Pogue. Especially when you look at the closeness of the top two scores, you can see that Plushy would have won if he had skated at his personal best. It wasn't just the front-loading of the program but the not-quite-thereness of his jumps and the inferior spins that held him back and gave Evan his chance. No one in the judges' seats was implying that Plushenko is a lesser skater than Lysacek. The judges were evaluating his performance of that evening, and I think they called it right.

As for the statement about how no one's going to do quads anymore because skaters can win just by back-loading the program and skating to the math, I wouldn't worry about that. A lot of skaters, like a lot of other athletes, are risk-takers by nature. (This applies to women as well as men.) They don't just want to win comfortably. They want to excel and set records. They take pride in being the avant-garde in their sport. Stojko didn't have to execute quad-triples to win, but he had to do them to be Stojko. I think Plushenko is the same way. One of the few live skating competitions I ever saw was I think a Campbell's competition. It verged on the cheescake and certainly didn't affect the skaters' rankings. And yet, Plushenko skated a quad. It's that quality of his that makes me admire him even though he'll never be my favorite skater. He has to give his all. I doubt he's the only one who thinks like that. Look at Takahashi.
 

gmyers

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Mar 6, 2010
Plushenko had no step outs, no two foot landings, no underrotations, no hand downs - what do you mean land the jumps better?
 

gmyers

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Mar 6, 2010
I agree, Pogue. Especially when you look at the closeness of the top two scores, you can see that Plushy would have won if he had skated at his personal best. It wasn't just the front-loading of the program but the not-quite-thereness of his jumps and the inferior spins that held him back and gave Evan his chance. No one in the judges' seats was implying that Plushenko is a lesser skater than Lysacek. The judges were evaluating his performance of that evening, and I think they called it right.

As for the statement about how no one's going to do quads anymore because skaters can win just by back-loading the program and skating to the math, I wouldn't worry about that. A lot of skaters, like a lot of other athletes, are risk-takers by nature. (This applies to women as well as men.) They don't just want to win comfortably. They want to excel and set records. They take pride in being the avant-garde in their sport. Stojko didn't have to execute quad-triples to win, but he had to do them to be Stojko. I think Plushenko is the same way. One of the few live skating competitions I ever saw was I think a Campbell's competition. It verged on the cheescake and certainly didn't affect the skaters' rankings. And yet, Plushenko skated a quad. It's that quality of his that makes me admire him even though he'll never be my favorite skater. He has to give his all. I doubt he's the only one who thinks like that. Look at Takahashi.

But you have the people who think that backloading a program is equal to doing a quad. That is what i always read. "Who cares if Plushenko did a quad Lysacek was backloaded!" Backloading is the new quad LOL!!! Which is the truth and why winners don't do world champs don't do them anymore. Even Joubert was beaten by Chan for silver at worlds. Joubert did three quads.
 

gmyers

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Mar 6, 2010
THANK-YOU

The thing Plushenko could've done to win? Land his jumps better than he did. That would've made the difference (seriously). No one argues Lambiel (who had two fully rotated quads, one in combination) should've beat Lysacek (oh, and Lambiel had higher level footwork for one of them as well, and better overall PCS) because Lambiel didn't earn the GOEs on his elements.

He had no triple axel - I don't think Lambiel really counts. He had do quads and poor quads at that because he had no triple axel.

Takahashi also moved from doing a quad toe to a quad flip because he could fail on the flip and get more points for a triple flip than he wold on the quad toe.
 
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