Last edited by seniorita; 06-21-2010 at 08:01 AM.
And the worst of it, Seniorita, was that he did that first triple axel beautifully, as I recall, so one thought that he was out of the woods. But that makes his lovely long program even more impressive. He was skating just for pride at that point, and notice how many of us count that as our favorite program of the five.
I'm wondering whether you experts on this site have anything to say about the Canadian tradition of teaching skating. I've noticed that, especially in men and pairs, Canadians seem to have an extra smoothness in their skating. Even skaters who don't end up at the top of things, for example Hough and Ladret, seem to have an extra snap to their quality of movement. Is it an ankles-down thing, or an ankles-up thing? Is it soft knees? Or is it just coincidence? I'm thinking particularly of Orser, Browning, Patrick Chan, Underhill/Martini, and Sale/Pelletier. (Not Stojko, though. Impressive as his jumps are, his bladework is just utilitarian to me.) Is there a special approach to teaching that Canadian coaches take? Russians certainly have had some trademark qualities--the use of dance, the endless practicing of just stroking around the rink--but does Canada have anything characteristic that we know about?
Edit: Eek! And Buttle, of course. How could I have forgotten Buttle?
I did not expect Evan to do a quad, since I had heard about his injury. I have understood that in Vancouver Evan skated as well in practices and in competition. Besides, he skated his whole programme the way it was in competition, too. I saw Evan´s freeskate on tv live and felt very happy for his wonderful performance. The live audience shared my opinion, LOL. I thought though that the judges will just favour the reigning Olympic champion. I was surprised that Plushenko had so many difficulties in jumping, but I still thought that he will be put as a winner. It was a wonderful surprise for me that Evan won after all... He sure deserved it, IMO.
Last edited by Jaana; 06-21-2010 at 12:29 PM.
He didn't do a quad to win the world championship - everyone knows it doesn't pay to do quads anymore but rather load up on jumps after the halfway point. Also it takes a long time to set up a quad so you can get some tranistion marks going into a triple for which it takes less time to set up.
gmeyers, you always write the same thing. If Plushenko's jumps had been a little more "easy" on the eye (not rotating out of the circle, soft flowing landings, not looking like he was going to splat on impact) he would have won.
The thing Plushenko could've done to win? Land his jumps better than he did. That would've made the difference (seriously). No one argues Lambiel (who had two fully rotated quads, one in combination) should've beat Lysacek (oh, and Lambiel had higher level footwork for one of them as well, and better overall PCS) because Lambiel didn't earn the GOEs on his elements.
Last edited by ImaginaryPogue; 06-21-2010 at 01:37 PM.
I agree, Pogue. Especially when you look at the closeness of the top two scores, you can see that Plushy would have won if he had skated at his personal best. It wasn't just the front-loading of the program but the not-quite-thereness of his jumps and the inferior spins that held him back and gave Evan his chance. No one in the judges' seats was implying that Plushenko is a lesser skater than Lysacek. The judges were evaluating his performance of that evening, and I think they called it right.
As for the statement about how no one's going to do quads anymore because skaters can win just by back-loading the program and skating to the math, I wouldn't worry about that. A lot of skaters, like a lot of other athletes, are risk-takers by nature. (This applies to women as well as men.) They don't just want to win comfortably. They want to excel and set records. They take pride in being the avant-garde in their sport. Stojko didn't have to execute quad-triples to win, but he had to do them to be Stojko. I think Plushenko is the same way. One of the few live skating competitions I ever saw was I think a Campbell's competition. It verged on the cheescake and certainly didn't affect the skaters' rankings. And yet, Plushenko skated a quad. It's that quality of his that makes me admire him even though he'll never be my favorite skater. He has to give his all. I doubt he's the only one who thinks like that. Look at Takahashi.
Plushenko had no step outs, no two foot landings, no underrotations, no hand downs - what do you mean land the jumps better?
Takahashi also moved from doing a quad toe to a quad flip because he could fail on the flip and get more points for a triple flip than he wold on the quad toe.
Evan skated well but I have seen him skate better many times, even without a quad. It was still a very good perforamnce but I didnt expect him to win with that skate after it finished at all. And I doubt he expected it either, which is why I agree he looked like he was skating to secure a medal rather than to win. It just turned out the final flight was much worse than expected.
here. Had he landed more securely, with better flow out of his jumps, he likely would've garnered the 1.36 points necessary to win (if you look at his best jump GOES, this is true). Landing better doesn't mean "not making the really obvious mistakes," in this case.
In the case of Lysacek vs Plushenko, Lysacek had cleaner jumps (as exemplified by the GOES), better footwork (as exemplified by the GOES), cleaner spins (GOE), harder spins (base value) and harder footwork, harder transitions (and Plushenko was probably given more credit than he deserved here as well) on top of the backloading. If any single one (or two) of those things were missing, he would have lost. So it's not fair to lay down the blame/credit at a single area (as you're doing with the whole "backloading vs quad" debate)
So essentially, breaking it down, backloading's not the new quad (aka: the way to win). The new quad is backloading your program, improving quality on all elements (spins, footwork, and jumps), improving your transitions and having harder elements outside of the jumps. I can live with that. Why does it bug you?
Also, about Takahashi, he'd get more points for a UR-quad flip with a fall than a UR-quad toe with a fall. True. The quad flip is a harder jump. But I'm not sure what you're actually saying there.