Events that Pang & Tong were robbed in over the years
The incredible Pang & Tong have been robbed many times in their careers. Which events do you believe they were robbed of a higher placing in. Here are some I think:
2003 Worlds- They should have moved up to the bronze over Petrova & Tikhonov's horrible skate. The crowd was so upset by Petrova & Tikhonov's marks something was thrown on ice after their scores.
2005 Worlds- They deserved the bronze here. They had some mistakes but so did the Zhangs and their presentation was so much better than the Zhangs at this point.
2005 Trophee de France- Totmianina & Marinin were very subpar here. Pang & Tong lost the gold because an element was discounted which wasnt right.
2006 Olympics- This was a horrible result. They clearly outskated both the Zhangs and Shen & Zhou and deserved the silver medal. The Zhangs should have been lucky to take 4th over Petrova & Tikhonov here but were given "sympathy" marks for their bravery rather than judging the errors and actual quality of the skate itself.
2007-2008 season: Pretty much every event they were in this year they were underscored compared to the Germans and the Zhangs, especialy the Zhangs. Politcally they were dumped to help promote the overscored Zhangs.
2008 Worlds: Their skating was wonderful inspite of the mistakes. They deserved a medal of some kind.
2009 Worlds: Again when you look at the quality of the silver and bronze performances they could have been placed higher despite not skating their best.
I dont remember well the earlier events so I wont coment about them..
As for torino 2006, yes absolutely. I think that's almost unanimously agreed on that they were robbed of a silver medal.
BUT, while I agree that by 2008 they were dumped in reputation in favor of the Zhangs they so DID NOT deserve any medal at 2008 Worlds, they were flat and uninspired in both performances while Dube&Davision had the competition of their lives and rightfully deserved the bronze. Germans and Zhangs had subpar LPs but their SP were wonderful and had much more difficulty in their programs.
As for 2009 Worlds, umm they again peaked too early at 2009 4CC and were not in top form at L.A. with a messy SP with an awful final SBS spin and lacked their usual spark at the LP. I would have loved another podium for them but I can't say they were really robbed.
They so deserved a medal at the 2006 Olympics!
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I don't remember the other events that well but I definitely agree about the 2006 Olympics. The Zhangs were rewarded for TRYING the throw quad.. while it was a gutsy move, I think they were rewarded too much. I remember thinking that Pang & Tong should have got the bronze or silver. It's funny that they were dumped for the Zhangs back then, but now the Zhangs can barely get on the podium even when they go clean and Pang and Tong make technical mistakes.
Yes the Zhangs were actually slightly robbed at Worlds I felt. Kavaguti & Smirnov no way deserved a medal there. Mukhortova & Trankov were pushed off the podium just to ensure they would split up but they deserved a medal there really.
Originally Posted by blue_idealist
The sport is so political even today, even under this supposably new grand COP system. Pang & Tong have gained higher favor with their federation which is a must for scores. The Zhangs have lost it and so are going to have a tougher time. It is a shame federations and who they support at a given time play such a glaring role in results.
the ONLY time I've felt they were robbed was the 2006 Olympics. They've been judged pretty fairly over the years.
I have not gotten the impression that Pang & Tong (which are one of my pairs favourites) have ever been actually robbed. On the other hand Shen & Zhao were definetely robbed in 1999 Worlds, in my opinion.
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I totally agree about Kavaguti and Smirnov. Mukhortova and Trankov should have been placed over them, and you could say the Zhangs could have been placed above K&S as well, although the Zhangs do suffer marks-wise because of their artistically devoid programs.
Originally Posted by pangtongfan
2006 olys. But I am sure at the time the results were discussed at length in this board. I love P and T since I first watched them live 03 SA
Wicked Yankee Girl
So do I! Except for me, it was the other P&T, PetTikhs, that I fell in love with there. That was the PetTikh's Princess of the Circus (Kalman) LP, was it not (2003)? That had some very interesting choreo in it. AFAIR, they skated it perfectly at Skate America but had a couple minor flaws at Worlds (he screwed up the landing of the 3t, she slightly 2 footed the throw 3S, and their triple twist was always a tad crashy. )
However, PetTikh's lifts were wonderful, intricate, and top notch !!! including absolutely correct technique on the axel entry lasso lifts (which were the bane of T&M, who had very sloppy axel entry lasso lifts, which led to her horrible accident at Skate America another year). It was a complete revelation because I hated PetTikh's 2002/2003 season LP a lot.
At worlds 2004, Pang & Tong deserved to be ahead of PetTikhs, but the difference in Pang & Tong's jumps, the nonsynchro of the sbs spins, the ugliness of the star position, which she used in two (2) of the lifts, and her flawed position in the camel spin, not to mention a bit of a two foot on one of the throws says to me they were judged fairly in 2004.
I wish the SA 2003 vid of Princes Of the Circus were available on youtube, but all that there is, is the flawed 2004 Worlds performance (still interesting and worth watching though).
Pang and Tong, BTW, had many good things in their skating but in many years, her jumps were just scraped out, if landed at all, and were not well synchronized with his-his went high and rotated slow and hers were small and rotated fast, so either the takeoff or the landing didn't match up. And her position in the star lift is now and always was very weak and unappealing. I thought PaTo were overgraded in the LP in 2004, if anything, but the placement was right.
Both P&T's suffered from being the second team in their country, throughout almost all of their career.
Last edited by dorispulaski; 06-19-2010 at 06:24 PM.
In any sport there will always be fans who feel their favorites got robbed especially if the sport is subjective. But usually it's personal preference over judging.
Looking at the protocols K/S had a much more difficult program than M/T, you may not like it personally but K/S should not be penalized on the score sheet because you don't like them as much as M/T. Say what you want about Kavaguti falling on a difficult jump like the quad but Trankov fell when he threw his partner on a triple (I have never seen that!) Would that have been fair to reward that with a bronze? The last two lifts of K/S program alone got them almost 16 points. Good for them for working the COP.
If Trankov would have won the bronze he still would have went with TV at the end of the season. He said he wanted to pair with her since 2006 so his heart and head hasn't been in his skating with Maria in quite a while and it looked like it. This is a sport where people loose medals by hundreds of points...if Kavaguti didn’t fall on the last throw they would have had silver (in both 2010 and 2009.) If P/T had done better in the short the Olympics they may have won gold.
This is something the athletes live with at every competition/game they go to and it something the fans have to live with as well.
I hope Pang and Tong continue I would love to see them for many more years I don't think they are done winning.
Yeah, outside the 2006 Olympics, I don't think they were ever hugely robbed.
Gotta Have Music
I can't name many specific events, but they should have been placed higher in the 2010 Olympic short program. They were superb, and I am so thrilled they won the Olympic silver medal, and of course, another World title this year. Nothing personal against the Zhangs (Shen & Zhao are still my favorite Chinese pair, and one of my all time favorites along with G&G), but overall I've preferred Pang & Tong artistically to them (the Zhangs, that is). We were also very impressed with their exhibition performances whenever they performed in COI.
There is even a case they deserved the OGM this year. They did win the LP by a couple points as they were the only top pair to do a clean LP. However they were IMO undermarked in the SP. I dont see why they ended up several points behind K&S in the SP at all. And had they been scored better in the SP than they were they would have won.
Where where they undermarkerd in the short? You are right if they had got more points in the short they would have won the gold but that was their own fault, it wasn't a judging error. They had a timing violation (huh?) and they didn't assume they rest of the teams would be bringnig their A game. They are just lucky Trankov fell and K/S imploded during the free skate and S/S were not at 110% or the silver would not have been theirs either.
You need to look at it again, the reason P/T were in fourth place was clear. Not counting the timing violation (which at this level of competition is just stupid) K/S were better skaters that night in all elements except for the throw (theirs is just bad at that level) and triple twist. K/S PC scores were higher than P/T except for SS where they were tied at 8.25.
Quickly looking: K/S had a base vaule for their BoDs4 of 4.50 and P/T only a 3.0. K/S added 0.84 and P/T added 0.56. everything adds up as the coaches and choregraphers know. P/T has a better throw and twist but K/S had the second hightest 3T of the short after S/Z.
If anyone should question their PC scores it should be K/S....the first judge was way too low with 6.75, putting them on par with L/H and D/D. Way too low. But that's how it is....the only team I think was in the wrong place was D/D.
Last edited by mousepotato; 06-20-2010 at 04:31 PM.