Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now | Golden Skate

Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

dorispulaski

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Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

As you age as a skate fan, sometimes it happens that you don't appreciate the achievements of a skater as an eligible skater, but years later, you do. Sometimes it's that the skater just is a lot better as a pro than as a competitor. But sometimes, it takes time to appreciate what that skater really did that was special.

And so I give you a first nomination for an underappreciated skater, Timothy Goebel. Here's what I feel was his finest competition, 2003 Worlds

His SP to Romeo & Juliet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep3eX1kiu50

His LP to an American in Paris
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRxVVMWn-CA

There's many things to appreciate about these programs that I see with new eyes from COP. For one thing, Timothy did those amazing jumps without skating for 1 minute and a half to build up speed. And he could do a quad in the second half of the program. And some of his planned jumps had a hydroblade going in or a spread eagle coming out. The security of his landing edge on most of his jumps was just excellent! Yes, his back position in the sit spin was bad...but at the time, that's about all anyone could talk about with Timothy. And he had nice quick feet in the F/w, although it's not COP footwork.

He was overshadowed by the excellence of Plushenko and Yagudin at the time. But we haven't seen a skater since 2003 who could do what Timothy could do, from a technical standpoint. I wonder how he would have scored if COP had been in place early in his career? Especially this year's version that ups the ante for quads and triple axels?

In any case, a belated shoutout for Timothy Goebel, who just graduated from college this year!
 

Blades of Passion

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

Goebel's performance at 2002 Olympics is his best ever, IMO. His "American in Paris" was a great program. He blows Lysacek's Gershwin program out of the water. There is far more excitement and sensitivity to the music. His elements are placed so much better and the transitional movements actually interpret the music and create a character rather than simply being there simply to gain more points.

I'd place Goebel ahead of Plushenko at 2002 Olympics, in fact. Plushenko made more mistakes and his Carmen program was not nearly as cohesive or dynamic (even if his skating skills are much stronger).
 
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iluvtodd

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

I agree that Tim's "An American in Paris" was a terrific program. Not only did he skate well at the 2002 Olympics, but he was also great at 2003 Worlds. Congrats to him on graduating from college. I believe he still is involved with the sport (supporting Figure Skating of Harlem). Is he doing any coaching as well? A much happier Tim than we saw at Skate America in 2005. I got to speak to him briefly there, and wished him all the best. He did have a tough time at that competition, and we felt bad for him.

underappreciated as an eligible? - or should I say much more appreciated as a pro - Yuka, Kurt, Ilia Kulik, Mike Weiss (turning out to be a very good, entertaining show skater, IMHO). - Don't get me wrong - I liked all of them in their eligible years, too.
 
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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

Definitely I have a more profound appreciation for Yuka, Kurt, and Ilia as pros, though like you I admired them all in their eligible careers as well. Pro skating brought out their individuality and innovative approach. Ilia especially has blossomed as a pro, because he's explored things like footwork that wouldn't have garnered him extra points (I use the word metaphorically for the pre-CoP era) in his amateur career.

I'll look at the Goebel programs later today, Doris. I suspect that like you I'll find more in them than I did at the time.

Roca and Sur were a couple I appreciate far more as pros than I did in their competitive careers. Their fluidity and the connection they have with each other are more obvious now.
 

iluvtodd

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

Roca and Sur were a couple I appreciate far more as pros than I did in their competitive careers. Their fluidity and the connection they have with each other are more obvious now.

Another example of what I meant! I liked them as eligibles, love them as pros. As for "my" Todd :laugh: I admired his eligible career, especially from the mid 1990's on (when I realized his skating wasn't just about jumps, loved the spins, but I felt he was developing his artistry as well - if he has been underappreciated at all, it has been due to what I think has been over-emphasis on the quad) , but of course I enjoy him as a pro too. Good thing to be a pro - he doesn't have to worry about landing that quad, and can focus on all the other elements of figure skating. I'll say the same for Jeff Buttle (I know he's not competing in Olympic eligible events, but has he officially gone pro ("ineligible")?

Oh, this thread also brings to mind Kristi and Paul Wylie. Really liked them in their eligible years, love them as pros too!
 
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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

I always loved Paul so much that I couldn't love him more as a pro—I'm just glad he found a way to have such a long and expressive skating career.

Kristi I definitely grew to appreciate more with the years, because she proved to be so versatile and because she kept up her skills with such commitment. I think I merely liked her as an amateur, and now I think she's one of the central figures in American skating of the past two decades.

Moreover, when I recently went back to watch a pairs program she did with Rudy Galindo, I was wowed by it, and I don't remember feeling that intensely about it when I first viewed it.
 

ManyCairns

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

Since I always liked Tim and especially his American in Paris program I have to say I thought he was definitely underappreciated. There was so much focus on those things he didn't do well and his nickname as the "Quad King" often was used with the connotation that that was ALL he was about. But like Doris says, there WERE other good things going on in his skating.

But, as to the original question, I almost completely underappreciated Yuka Sato until her pro career. I didn't appreciate until then her deep edges and deep, soft knees, just her excellent bladework all around.

And Bechke and Petrov. Liked them as pros, didn't as amateurs.
 

Jaana

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

Goebel was an excellent jumper, but his music interpretation was very lacking, in my opinion. I would though say that in 2002 Olympics and in one Worlds (I don´t remember the year) he was at his best, but still did not come close to what his competitors or current skaters are able to interpret.

I think that skaters like Kurt Browning, Paul Wylie, Yuka Sato, Kristi Yamaguchi and Michael Weiss are at their best as pro skaters.
 
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dorispulaski

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

Jaana, Try watching his 2003 LP again. I happened to do it the other day and felt it blew Evan's program (same choreographer and coach!) out of the water, both technically and in interpretation. Hence this thread.
 

Tonichelle

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

Goebel's performance at 2002 Olympics is his best ever, IMO. His "American in Paris" was a great program. He blows Lysacek's Gershwin program out of the water. There is far more excitement and sensitivity to the music. His elements are placed so much better and the transitional movements actually interpret the music and create a character rather than simply being there simply to gain more points.

I'd place Goebel ahead of Plushenko at 2002 Olympics, in fact. Plushenko made more mistakes and his Carmen program was not nearly as cohesive or dynamic (even if his skating skills are much stronger).

re: goebel v. plushenko ITA.

That being said I think his best program was the 2005 US National Championships short program. Absolutely amazing. Oh, what Tim could have been.
 

dorispulaski

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUq1aNVxz1w

Here's Tim's 2005 SP, just for you Toni.

Tim's hip, neck and back were going to heck in a handbasket at this time. He was great friends with Angela, and her mother's death and Angela's career-ending injury, while travelling from the airport to the competition affected Tim a great deal. At the time, most posters actually made fun of Tim for this.
 

Tonichelle

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

I dont remember anything negative said about him. But, I was in Portland and didnt read a lot of the boards. The arena didnt have a dry eye in the place when he broke down at the end.

so glad it is on youtube. I've been looking for it for a while!
 

blue_idealist

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

Josee Chouinard, Michael Weiss, Rudy Galindo.. although *I* always appreciated Michael Weiss
 

heyang

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

I'd have to say that appreciated Punsalon and Swallow more as pros vs amateurs.

LOL - i'd have to add Scott Hamilton to this list, too. The only amateur competition I watched of his was his LP at the Sarajevo Olympcis and I definitely didn't understand why he won. However, as a pro, I always enjoyed the humor he brought to his programs and grace that he has exhibited during his illnesses.

Sorry, ILuvTodd, but I wish Todd would do more light hearted routines. As an amateur, I only liked his Chaplin routine. Then, I enjoyed his Who Let The Dogs Out during an Improv on Ice program. I can definitely appreciate him more as a pro vs in Oly eligible competitions.

As for Yuka, for me, she was barely a blip on the amateur scene. She won 94 World's (partly due to Chen Lu being injured, as well as Nancy & Oksana skipping World's) and then went pro. So, there was barely time to appreciate her pre-pro career. Until 1994, she didn't finish above 4th at Sr World's - only appeared at 4 Sr World's altogether, finishing 14th, skip, 8th, 4th and then 1st. at her 2 Olympics, she finished 7th and 5th. Without that 1994 win and the attack on Kerrigan, Yuka would've been a blip. She had a really difficult time her 1st year as a pro, too - did not impress with her choices her 1st year. Fortunately, she figured it out and blossomed on the pro scene.
 

Tonichelle

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

LOL - i'd have to add Scott Hamilton to this list, too. The only amateur competition I watched of his was his LP at the Sarajevo Olympcis and I definitely didn't understand why he won. However, as a pro, I always enjoyed the humor he brought to his programs and grace that he has exhibited during his illnesses.

Well his LP was his weakest skate the entire week. He won based on the judging of the Figures portion and his short program and the fact that Brian Orser had a mountain to climb due to the judges holding him down in figures. (I got all of that from Scott's book so it *must* be true :laugh: )
 

Blades of Passion

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

Vanessa Gusmeroli was underrated, likely because of her inconsistency. But she was a wonderfully inventive skater for several years.

I think she deserved the Silver medal at 2000 Worlds (also Bonze in 1999). Look at the way she feels the music in the LP, the kind of mystic sexuality she has (epitomized by her trademark on-ice split move). Far more interesting than Slutskaya's boring, unimaginative Carmen and she landed 6 Triples as well, so on the tech side she was competitive too.
 

iluvtodd

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

Another team - Bechke & Petrov! I remember that Elena was a bunch of nerves as an eligible, but my, were they fantastic as pros!
Sorry, ILuvTodd, but I wish Todd would do more light hearted routines. As an amateur, I only liked his Chaplin routine. Then, I enjoyed his Who Let The Dogs Out during an Improv on Ice program. I can definitely appreciate him more as a pro vs in Oly eligible competitions.

heyang., I understand what you're saying here. Todd has always had that "serious" persona, particularly as an eligible skater for many of his free skates, but he actually had some light hearted, "fun" short programs too - "Swing Kids," "Walk on the Wild Side," His 1998 "Les Mis" Medley, "Cabaret" (all from "serious" movies/musicals, interestingly, though). We got to see his "Who Let the Dogs Out?" program live at
Improv-ice." That was a hoot! Another light hearted program he did as an eligible was "Any Day Now Day," back in October 1998 in a show called "Skaters' Tribute to Broadway." We saw this show live in Philly, and he brought the house down with it at the end of Act 1. Did you ever see that one? A friend of mine put it on Youtube. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfZcinYrcwc . While I think he excels at the "serious" type of program, I love seeing him do light hearted programs too, and I'm glad he's had the opportunity to do that as a pro ("Let me Entertain You," "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life," and this season's "I Want You to Want Me" (getting a little flirty with the audience) from SOI come to mind. Plus his funny side definitely comes out in the SOI group numbers.

I sort of remember Yuka's first season as a pro. It was a difficult transition for her (I think Kurt may have felt that way about his first pro season). But they have both blossomed beautifully, thank goodness!.
 
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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

I too remember Kurt's first year as a pro. It was as difficult as his last eligible year. His perseverance during that time was one of the things that made me admire him. And then the Wonder Years began. The guy became an artist and performer that no one else could equal. Thank goodness it all happened during a period of extensive TV coverage of skating, because we got to see the whole marvelous display for ourselves. Remember that magnificent Canadian TV special in which he skated to "Singin' in the Rain"?

It's interesting that this guy is known for his inventiveness and precision, but he's also in the history books for doing the first quad. He's a complete skater, a master of all aspects of skating.

Not that I didn't appreciate him in his eligible years, but he hadn't put as much distance between himself and everyone else at that time. In the pro world, there is still a cohort of excellent skaters, don't get me wrong. But because pro skating is less standardized, a man with Kurt's prodigious talents can truly be said to stand alone.
 

heyang

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Re: Skaters Underappreciated in their eligible years that you respect more now

Well his LP was his weakest skate the entire week. He won based on the judging of the Figures portion and his short program and the fact that Brian Orser had a mountain to climb due to the judges holding him down in figures. (I got all of that from Scott's book so it *must* be true :laugh: )

I read that, too.... However, that wasn't anything the commentators pointed out at that time!
 
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