Well his LP was his weakest skate the entire week. He won based on the judging of the Figures portion and his short program and the fact that Brian Orser had a mountain to climb due to the judges holding him down in figures. (I got all of that from Scott's book so it *must* be trueOriginally Posted by heyang
)
Vanessa Gusmeroli was underrated, likely because of her inconsistency. But she was a wonderfully inventive skater for several years.
I think she deserved the Silver medal at 2000 Worlds (also Bonze in 1999). Look at the way she feels the music in the LP, the kind of mystic sexuality she has (epitomized by her trademark on-ice split move). Far more interesting than Slutskaya's boring, unimaginative Carmen and she landed 6 Triples as well, so on the tech side she was competitive too.
Another team - Bechke & Petrov! I remember that Elena was a bunch of nerves as an eligible, but my, were they fantastic as pros!heyang., I understand what you're saying here. Todd has always had that "serious" persona, particularly as an eligible skater for many of his free skates, but he actually had some light hearted, "fun" short programs too - "Swing Kids," "Walk on the Wild Side," His 1998 "Les Mis" Medley, "Cabaret" (all from "serious" movies/musicals, interestingly, though). We got to see his "Who Let the Dogs Out?" program live at
Improv-ice." That was a hoot! Another light hearted program he did as an eligible was "Any Day Now Day," back in October 1998 in a show called "Skaters' Tribute to Broadway." We saw this show live in Philly, and he brought the house down with it at the end of Act 1. Did you ever see that one? A friend of mine put it on Youtube. Here's the link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfZcinYrcwc . While I think he excels at the "serious" type of program, I love seeing him do light hearted programs too, and I'm glad he's had the opportunity to do that as a pro ("Let me Entertain You," "Always Look on the Bright Side of Life," and this season's "I Want You to Want Me" (getting a little flirty with the audience) from SOI come to mind. Plus his funny side definitely comes out in the SOI group numbers.
I sort of remember Yuka's first season as a pro. It was a difficult transition for her (I think Kurt may have felt that way about his first pro season). But they have both blossomed beautifully, thank goodness!.
Last edited by iluvtodd; 07-02-2010 at 08:30 AM.
I too remember Kurt's first year as a pro. It was as difficult as his last eligible year. His perseverance during that time was one of the things that made me admire him. And then the Wonder Years began. The guy became an artist and performer that no one else could equal. Thank goodness it all happened during a period of extensive TV coverage of skating, because we got to see the whole marvelous display for ourselves. Remember that magnificent Canadian TV special in which he skated to "Singin' in the Rain"?
It's interesting that this guy is known for his inventiveness and precision, but he's also in the history books for doing the first quad. He's a complete skater, a master of all aspects of skating.
Not that I didn't appreciate him in his eligible years, but he hadn't put as much distance between himself and everyone else at that time. In the pro world, there is still a cohort of excellent skaters, don't get me wrong. But because pro skating is less standardized, a man with Kurt's prodigious talents can truly be said to stand alone.
I read that, too.... However, that wasn't anything the commentators pointed out at that time!Well his LP was his weakest skate the entire week. He won based on the judging of the Figures portion and his short program and the fact that Brian Orser had a mountain to climb due to the judges holding him down in figures. (I got all of that from Scott's book so it *must* be true
Yep - I remember his Rocketeer # and cringe, still. Same with Yuka's Mary Poppins #.
I did rewatch Goebel´s 2003 LP, and I can see some improvement, but nothing to come even close to Evan´s interpretation ability of RiB (choreographed by Tarasova and tweaked by Nichol). Technically Goebel was better only in the sense that he was able to jump quads, which injured Lysacek was not able / has not been able to do.
Sorry, but in my mind I have Goebel in the same group of very unexpressive skaters which also includes Stojko and Bonaly.
Last edited by Jaana; 07-02-2010 at 01:04 PM.
Oh dear. Evan didn't even have an interpretation. The same facial expression as always, little use of arm movements (except during footwork in which he suddenly starts swinging every which way possible), tons of crossovers, the exact same layout of elements as always. Most any time Evan takes the ice, he skates to perform the elements and show his competitive drive, not to reflect the music. If you look at his "Rhapsody in Blue" and "Shaherezade" performances, the only thing that's really different (aside from costume) is the opening pose and the poses during the "rest section" (none of which are particularly interesting).
However, let us look at the masterful choreography of Goebel's program (I'm examining his performance at 2002 Olympics here):
The music is light and cheery. He begins with a series of hops and some soft undulating arm movements while going backwards, right into a Triple Lutz. Does a one-foot swizzle after coming out of the jump. A feeling of easy-going carefreeness is projected, perfect for the music.
Afterwards he does crossovers that change tempo with the tempo of the music, along with arm movements that do the same. This leads us into his Quad Sal-Triple Toe combination. Excellent, the excitement is now building.
Program continues with a cross-roll into a "fan spiral" leg movement, a nice highlight to the music. Another shift in the tune now, the music is subtly crescendoing. He does a spread eagle into a Triple Axel-Double Toe, jumping exactly on the new note.
Now into a combination spin. It's a very simple spin, but that's all the music needs - his positions and centering are clean and he changes positions when the music changes. Did I need to see a cannonball position or catch-foot or change-of-edge in any of these positions? Nope!
Moving along after the spin, there are some light arm movements low at his side and then a series of turns that build momentum into an outside-to-inside spread eagle sequence. This all highlights the uplifting quality of the music and after the spread eagle, as the music has begun to gently decresendo, Timothy gives us a little playful shrug. "I've not a care in all the world."
Going across the ice now, the music is building to something. Down the length of the ice he goes into a beautifully rotated Quad Toeloop that spins through the air as the music hits a series of rapid notes. What a joy!
Cotinuing across the ice with good speed, he does a walley and then a reverse walley. This leads up to a flying camel spin that begins right as a trumpet suddenly comes in and takes over the melody of the music. After the spin the music becomes more languid. He does a brief inside spread eagle, pauses, and then a series of outreaching movements and a quick forward spiral position before building up speed for a Triple Axel.
The music is still languid. He goes into a combination spin and afterwards slowly waves his arms to the side and briefly pauses to look upward towards the sky. Tempo change now, the music is happier again. He does a series of backwards foot movements and then begins building up speed. Backwards turn into a...QUADRUPLE SALCHOW. Whoa. What a big move so late in a program.
A series of chasses begins a Circular Footwork sequence. The music is jubilant and he is smiling as he does the footwork. Footwork is over, he's going down across the ice now. Throws his hands in the air. A series of turns leading into a Triple Flip as a cymbal rings out in the music. Follows up with a Straightline Footwork sequence, beginning with some very dancy movements. You can feel the Gene Kelly vibe.
Another change of tempo. Hydroblade into a Triple Loop! Followed up directly by a Flying Spin. A cymbal slams in the music right as he gets into a sit position. Trumpets ring out and he pulls up into a back scratch spin. The music has now gone back to that playful theme, he does a series of running steps into a death drop as the music crescendos to the final note.
Very dynamic program. It builds. It ebbs and flows. It has movements that are both subtle and grand.
Now, in comparison, this is Evan's program to Gershwin music (2009 Worlds):
The music starts, it's playful. Evan does a single forward two-foot swizzle and then immediately starts with the crossovers. His expression is not carefree but instead characterized by detached concern.
More crossovers and generic arm positions before doing a spread eagle and then a Triple Lutz-Triple Toe combination. It hits the music at a good time but he doesn't seem at all excited. The music now changes and Evan does crossovers. Some more generic arms and a back turn before going into a Triple Axel. Follows it up with some turns that don't really have much to do with the music and a very quick spread eagle position. Goes into a Triple Salchow now. Does a brief inside spread eagle position afterward for no apparent reason and then tries to do a pose but doesn't finish it off or really give any kind of expression.
Change in tempo, the music picks up. He goes into a Circular Footwork sequence. Doing all kinds of turns, counters, rockers and arm movements but little of it reflects the notes that I'm hearing. His movement at the end of the footwork sequence doesn't even at least have the energetic quality the music is calling for. Change in melody, he goes into a spin. Nice stretched out catch-leg position. The spin changes edge and he does some awkward hand movements. Huh? Why'd you just do that? Now the spin changes to a half-assed pancake position. Ugh.
Change of tempo, it's slower again. He basically just does crossovers in a circle. Now he's grabbing his head. Huh? Why? You really are not nearly as suave as this music. More crossovers now. Builds up to a Triple Axel-Double Toe. It doesn't hit any memorable moment in the music. It's just there. The music is very soft and almost yearing now. This would be a good moment to show some sensitivity. Oh, but you're just doing crossovers. And now a Triple Loop. More crossovers and doing nothing with the arms. The music hits a highlight. Still just doing crossovers. Now a quick back spiral position before going into a Triple Flip-Double Toe-Double Loop. Not much impact. What did a 3-jump combination have to do with the music at that moment?
More crossovers. More outstretched airplane arms that have no character and don't really mean anything. Now a catch-leg position while gliding backwards? Huh? For what reason? This isn't doing anything with the music. Goes right into a Triple Lutz. Immediately follows it with a Double Axel for no apparent reason. Goes into a Flying Spin. This spin entry actually matched the music pretty well. Wait, but why are you changing your edge in the spin now. OMG and why are you now doing another half-assed pancake position?!?
Change of tempo. He goes into a Straightline Footwork sequence. There are twizzles. There are rockers and counters. The pattern of the footwork is not straight. It zig-zags all over (but it's not Serpentine either). Tons of movement going on here but it doesn't really flow or have any particular excitement. Sure does take up a lot of time, though.
Now a final combination spin. This is really good and matches the music fairly well. Final ending pose...Evan ends ahead of the music.
I am bored and unmoved.
Last edited by Blades of Passion; 07-02-2010 at 08:43 PM.
Thank you for writing that Blades of Passion! That's exactly how I see Timmy's program! I felt smiley and happy just watching it...which I think is the intention of that piece. Lovely!
I hope those of you who haven't watched it for a while, will give it another try.
And I love how those huge jumps/tricks are actually part of the choreo, and have something to do with the music!!! Amazing!
Wow, Blades. You just showed fans and skaters why this forum is so indispensable. Plus you've given a priceless, surely totally unexpected gift to Tim Goebel.
And then there's what you've done for those of us who are less than enchanted by Evan and his OGM.
Finally, there is the brilliant way you've adapted a classic form of academic writing, the critical description, for skating boards. Your analysis is illuminating and would be great to see for other programs. (Of course, like the same form in academia, it could get tired and overused, but that doesn't obviate the form itself.)
To quote you, "Whoa." What a post!
And this is before I've even watched the Goebel program.
Spun Silver, I agree with your enthusiastic evaluation of Blades' description. This is why I love this forum! I don't just learn a lot about skating, I learn how to learn.Wow, Blades. You just showed fans and skaters why this forum is so indispensable. Plus you've given a priceless, surely totally unexpected gift to Tim Goebel.
Finally, there is the brilliant way you've adapted a classic form of academic writing, the critical description, for skating boards. Your analysis is illuminating and would be great to see for other programs. (Of course, like the same form in academia, it could get tired and overused, but that doesn't obviate the form itself.)
To quote you, "Whoa." What a post!
And this is before I've even watched the Goebel program.
Blades, your analysis also points up the usefulness of this thread (thanks, Doris!). It really is an appreciation of a skater for subtleties we don't normally notice. Definitely an opportunity to see a skater in a new light! I do hope we'll see more posts like this about other skaters.
Additionally, Blades, your analysis points up the small details that make Lori Nichol such a musical choreographer. (I know she also choreographed Evan's routine, but perhaps the change to CoP explains the difference. In any case, that's a discussion for another day.) I love her choreography, always have. But I'm sure I don't know how to look at it to get everything she puts into it. With this evaluation in hand, I'll get a lot more out of her work with Tim! Hey, any chance you could do an analysis of Michelle's Lyra Angelica from the 1998 Nationals? I need a tutorial!
Last edited by Olympia; 07-02-2010 at 08:42 PM.
Thanks for the responses! I've gone back and corrected a few spelling mistakes I just now noticed.
I really felt the need to critically examine these two performances, as they are in such stark contrast to one another despite the similar packaging. Lysacek may have won a World Championship with his version, but Goebel's is far superior (especially when examining the quality of the choreography and how it relates to the music). The way competitors skate now under CoP is very frustrating. Skaters are being rewarded for actually skating against the music with the convoluted spins, footwork, spirals, jump combinations, and transitional movements. ISU has finally fixed some of the problems with their current rule changes for next season, but many of the problems still remain.
For the record, "American in Paris" is the ONLY time that Timothy Goebel's skating was aesthetically worthy of praise. And even there he still held back somewhat with his expression and doesn't have the best skating skills in the World. Still, he deserves credit for that program. It really is masterfully choreographed and he executed it well enough, creating a very enjoyable presentation.
Before CoP, skaters were better able to create programs that flowed and fit their personality. Someone like Goebel, who only had that 1 really good program, probably would have never had ANY good programs if he started competing under CoP. He would have done back-to-back-to-back jumps in order to create more space in the program for all of the convoluted spins and footwork. Those elements in turn would have looked less pleasurable as well. Essentially, the whole program would have collapsed.
And that's a lot of what we see today. Even when skaters are energetic and are "into" their performances, it's hard to be really excited by the skating because of how many unharmonious elements are in the programs and/or how predictable the programs are. It's still been possible to create great programs with CoP, but the window of room for artistic integrity has been much narrower.
Skaters like Evan Lysacek, who really are NOT very artistic, get rewarded for simply ticking off the check boxes. He puts on the appearance of being artistic by throwing spread eagles and spirals before jumps, and by doing showy ham-fest footwork (and by having such nice body line), but there is never a story being told. He doesn't think about the music and take us on a personal journey of what it means to him. He doesn't do anything unique or take risks. He did show a real level of emotion in some of his performances of "Carmen", but he's basically been coasting on that program ever since. Everything he does is just this put-on machismo and predictable series of elements. He goes out there and simply focuses on skating clean, without bothering to have much expression or interesting choreographic highlights, and then suddenly snaps into focus after all the jumps are done for a "crowd-pleasing" straight-line footwork sequence and final combination spin.
Most every skater has boiled their programs down a similar template, and that template can work, but it more often than not it is stagnant. Even if there were a lot of competitors out there who could make it work, that doesn't mean we should be seeing the same template all the time.
Funnily enough, I do think CoP may have the potential to be a better judging system than 6.0. It still needs a ton of work, though, and judges need to learn how to properly evaluate skaters under the system.
Last edited by Blades of Passion; 07-02-2010 at 10:12 PM.
OMGoodness YES. Yes, yes, yes! This whole post and especially the parts I've put in boldface. Wow, Blades, you helped me articulate my own thoughts better than I could!
Rest section pose for Lysacek-One hand going down chest another going up the chest.
It was said that Scott Hamilton had an ear infection, which affected his jumps.
Considering how poorly he skated in the LP, I believe it.
Last edited by skatesindreams; 07-03-2010 at 12:24 PM.
Posting Permissions
Bookmarks