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Thread: Who among the Ladies has a 3-3 this year?

  1. #76
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Wait - on another thread you declared Mao a "master of the 3A." Now you are telling us her 3A's will be not be "masterful?"
    Which is it?
    Mao is getting older. Doing 3A's is getting harder for her. When she was younger, her 3A had more spring than it has the past 2 years. Mao focused so hard on those 3A's last season and because of that she was able to master them, but the rest of her jumps took a toll as a result.

    Mao is now focusing on improving her technique on her other jumps, which is going to take a toll on her 3A's. She also already holds the record of being the first female to do three 3A's at a single competition, so there is no longer as much motivation for her to throw her entire being into them. They are going to become more prone to being underrotated. She will still keep doing them even if they constantly get downgraded, though, because a downgraded 3A is still worth the same amount of points as a fully rotated 3Lz.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Mao is getting older. Doing 3A's is getting harder for her. When she was younger, her 3A had more spring than it has the past 2 years. Mao focused so hard on those 3A's last season and because of that she was able to master them, but the rest of her jumps took a toll as a result.

    Mao is now focusing on improving her technique on her other jumps, which is going to take a toll on her 3A's. She also already holds the record of being the first female to do three 3A's at a single competition, so there is no longer as much motivation for her to throw her entire being into them. They are going to become more prone to being underrotated. She will still keep doing them even if they constantly get downgraded, though, because a downgraded 3A is still worth the same amount of points as a fully rotated 3Lz.
    Thanks for explaining and it makes sense to me. There is a possibilty that Mao may do OK with her 3A's this season. It is possible her new coach might be able to strengthen her 3A technique.

    But if Mao really has her focus on Sochi then she has to clean up her lutz and work on her 3x3's. That could take time and lead to some less than stellar skates this season.

    Still, I suspect Mao has her eyes on a third WC this season with Worlds being in Japan.
    Only Sonja, Carol and Michelle have won five WC's and Mao may have made it a goal to join that club.
    Last edited by janetfan; 09-01-2010 at 09:17 PM.

  3. #78
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ And don't forget Herma Szabo, 1922-1926.

    But, yeah, Mao has a great shot at winning three more.

    Edited to add: 2011 World podium:

    Mao Asada
    Ashley Wagner
    ?
    Last edited by Mathman; 09-01-2010 at 10:38 PM.

  4. #79
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    I find this discussion interesting, in particular as regards two of my favorite skaters from Japan ~ Miss Ando and Miss Asada.

    I had high hopes for Miki at one time, during the transition years when there was really no one to get that excited about. One of my all-time favorites skaters had basically retired, Sarah Hughes, and I was left adrift, lol. Then I heard about Miki and the quad, and I thought "what guts!", so I watched her entry into seniors with high hopes. She was stiff, not very musical, but was a pretty good all-around skater with a 100 mega-watt smile and tons of charm! So, naturally, I thought she would improve, and she did, but never to the point of Olympic Gold Medal material imho. Her packaging was first-rate, and she could jump very well (her triples were fully rotated & high and her 3/3s were very very good), but still she was never a standout in one or more areas (e.g. spins, artistry, technical, consistency, footwork, flexibility, spirals, etc.). So I kinda lost interest, especially after the 2006 Olympics (she herself lost interest as well), and especially when I realized she would *never* land a fully rotated 4salchow. She never has, even the one that was ratified at the 2002 JGPF should never have happened imho. I've watched the videos, it was underrotated by 1/2, and the subsequent rare times she has tried one over the following years have always been underrotated by 1/2 or more. I appreciate the effort, but anything, and I mean anything, underrotated by a 1/2 or more should never be given credit, not even partial. This is what I've always liked about the COP, and if they change it to allow even partial credit for jumps that are underrotated by 1/2 or more, what's the point!?! Geeze, we are just going to end up where we were before. I hope the ISU doesn't cave; please count triple jumps as underrotated by 1/2 or more as double jumps, or if you must triple jumps with all negative grades of execution. This not a reflection on Miki, as I still do appreciate her, and I honestly do love it when she does well, but I'm speaking as a long-time figure skating fan. And I don't think allowing jumps underrotated by a 1/2 or more is good for the sport. In fact I'd rather see Yuna with all her gorgeously fully rotated 3/3s than a severely underrotated 3A or 4S by a woman. And that's the truth.

    As for Mao, she's a whole other kettle of fish. And I'm not just talking jumps, I'm talking mentality, the desire/the drive to always strive to be better than what she is, not settle. Yes, I didn't recognize this at first, when I heard about the junior girl with the 3A I was jaundiced by this point, thinking probably just another wannabe with barely a 3A which she will lose as soon as she grows a bit & fills out, and my belief was confirmed when I saw her severly underrotated 3A when she was just a junior. Naturally, I thought it wouldn't get any better, confirmed in my belief (lol). Thus, I was astonished when she appeared at the 2005 GPF with the most beautiful 3A I've ever seen, over-rotated to boot! This, coupled with her lovely presentation and exquisite spins & spirals, as well as very good 3/3s over the years has amazed me. Of course it can always get better, especially some of her underrotated 3/3s need work, but her 3A I don't have a problem with. Yes, sometimes they are underrotated by 3/8ths, which rightfully so should not be ratified, but her percentage on this jump keeps improving over the years, *not* declining. She truly has mastered this jump. This I have no quibble with. But now she really does need to work on those 3/3s over the next four years, while maintaining her consistency with the 3A. Thank goodness her solo triple jumps have never been a problem. I figure it will take at least a couple of seasons before her program "fit for the gods" will truly materalize/take shape. But that said, I have to admit she has totally surprised me in the past (see above), so I wouldn't put it past her to surprise me again by mastering 3/3s in only one season, not two, accompanied of course with her trademark 3A(s).

    Lol, I can't wait for the season to begin!

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Mao is getting older. Doing 3A's is getting harder for her. When she was younger, her 3A had more spring than it has the past 2 years.
    I agree with the toll that Mao's other jumps have taken because of her undivided focus on the 3A. However, I would not say that doing 3As is getting harder or that it had more spring in the past. Honestly, the 3As I saw her do at the Olympics and some of the competitions before then have been much improved and had the greatest height and hang time that I've seen from her.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ And don't forget Herma Szabo, 1922-1926.

    But, yeah, Mao has a great shot at winning three more.

    Edited to add: 2011 World podium:

    Mao Asada
    Ashley Wagner
    ?
    Thanks for mentioning Herma Szabo.

    I see you appear to have abandoned Rachael to jump on the Ashley bandwagon this season.
    Wouldn't it be nice for Ashley and Priscilla too for Ashley to win or atleast place second at Natls this season.

  7. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    She was relatively lazy after winning her 2007 World Title and I predict the same thing if she wins the next World Title. It's only natural to revel in your victories, in comparison to everyone else training as hard as they can to beat you next time.
    Miki was injured during 2007/2008. Her shoulder had gotten worse and then she injured her leg. I don't think laziness had anything to do with her results that season.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    You guys assume Miki is going for the Quad Sal in both short and long program? She's not. I don't think she will even attempt it.
    Miki w/out the quad will not edge out Asada. Asada, with multiple mistakes, can get above 130. Miki, clean, is about 126. It's unfortunate, but it is what it is.
    First of all, female skaters aren't allowed to do quads in the SP. Second, no one is expecting Miki to go for the 4S. I believe Miki isn't practicing it anymore, and that's definately a good thing. Third, Miki would've got over 130 at Worlds 2009 if her 3Lo had not been downgraded.


  8. #83
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan
    I see you appear to have abandoned Rachael to jump on the Ashley bandwagon this season.

    Wouldn't it be nice for Ashley and Priscilla too for Ashley to win or atleast place second at Natls this season.
    I don't know if Ashley has a bandwagon yet, but I think I will root for her for the same reason that I rooted for Rachael to win U.S. Nationals last year. Rachael skated great at U.S. Nationals in both 2008 and 2009 and maybe deserved to win both, so I was glad to see her grab the brass ring on her third try.

    Ashley skated great all last year, and I wish she could have made the Olympic team (not at the expense of Rachael and Mirai, though.) So I hope she has a stellar year in 2011.

    As for Mirai, she is the U.S. skater that has the "it" factor along with the technique. She is sure to be the skater most in the public eye heading into the Grand Prix season. She is both the "future" and the "now" of U.S. ladies.

    IMHO, if Yu-na Kim retires, only Mao Asada is at a different level from the U.S. ladies, and I don't see any reason why our girls can't contend for podium spots internationally.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I don't know if Ashley has a bandwagon yet, but I think I will root for her for the same reason that I rooted for Rachael to win U.S. Nationals last year. Rachael skated great at U.S. Nationals in both 2008 and 2009 and maybe deserved to win both, so I was glad to see her grab the brass ring on her third try.

    Ashley skated great all last year, and I wish she could have made the Olympic team (not at the expense of Rachael and Mirai, though.) So I hope she has a stellar year in 2011.

    As for Mirai, she is the U.S. skater that has the "it" factor along with the technique. She is sure to be the skater most in the public eye heading into the Grand Prix season. She is both the "future" and the "now" of U.S. ladies.

    IMHO, if Yu-na Kim retires, only Mao Asada is at a different level from the U.S. ladies, and I don't see any reason why our girls can't contend for podium spots internationally.
    I like Ashley's skating and feel she is close to putting it all together. Easier said than done and I agree with you about Mirai.
    Since Sochi is four seasons away it is hard to tell who might emerge by 2014. With a little more speed and better spins Christina seems primed but there will be others nipping at the heels of the current ladies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikiAndoFan#1 View Post
    First of all, female skaters aren't allowed to do quads in the SP. Second, no one is expecting Miki to go for the 4S. I believe Miki isn't practicing it anymore, and that's definately a good thing. Third, Miki would've got over 130 at Worlds 2009 if her 3Lo had not been downgraded.
    First of all
    Second of all, I said "assume" Miki is going for the 4S in both S and L programs because how else would she gain so much more points than Asada in technical to compensate for the PCS? Miki is not going to put a flip in the LP, it seems. Everything I said is in context to what I was replying to.

    Asada's PCS is already about a triple axel more than Miki's. She can do a 5 clean triples LP and still win.

    Third, Miki LP at 2009 Worlds deserved 1st place. I give you that.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    First of all
    Second of all, I said "assume" Miki is going for the 4S in both S and L programs because how else would she gain so much more points than Asada in technical to compensate for the PCS? Miki is not going to put a flip in the LP, it seems. Everything I said is in context to what I was replying to.

    Asada's PCS is already about a triple axel more than Miki's. She can do a 5 clean triples LP and still win.

    Third, Miki LP at 2009 Worlds deserved 1st place. I give you that.
    Miki's PCS is capable of being really high if she manages to not look dead out there. Like at the GPF, her PCS were not much below Yuna's, and at worlds 2009 her PCS in her FS were really high because that was a fantastic program. I don't think it is out of the question that Miki will win Worlds this year and be able to defeat Mao, given all that Mao is going through recently. The 3a plagued her all last season until she lost weight in the winter to be able to rotate it, and that in turn hurt her stamina. I'm not sure Mao's 3a's are going to be super solid this season, and likely her 3lz and 3-3s won't be ready yet either, and if that turns out to be true, it definitely opens the door for Miki to win Worlds. Also, Worlds are in Japan, Japan loves Miki, I bet her PCS scores will be high.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    First of all
    Second of all, I said "assume" Miki is going for the 4S in both S and L programs because how else would she gain so much more points than Asada in technical to compensate for the PCS? Miki is not going to put a flip in the LP, it seems. Everything I said is in context to what I was replying to.

    Asada's PCS is already about a triple axel more than Miki's. She can do a 5 clean triples LP and still win.
    Miki doesn't need a quad. She needs to be consistent and she needs to stop holding back. Her PCS aren't very different from Mao's.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlattFan View Post
    Third, Miki LP at 2009 Worlds deserved 1st place. I give you that.
    You don't have to give me anything.


  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    . Also, Worlds are in Japan, Japan loves Miki, I bet her PCS scores will be high.
    Not that it matters in the least - but doesn't Japan love Mao a little more than Miki?

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Not that it matters in the least - but doesn't Japan love Mao a little more than Miki?
    Lol yes, but my guess is that both girls will have scores off the charts.

  15. #90
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    Well, the possibility of the same situation happening twice (Miki winning worlds in Tokyo) is pretty slim. Every Worlds is going to be different and there's always going to be surprises. I'll be looking to Mirai to step up to the occasion. This is really her year to fulfill the expectations that has been building since last season. Of course, I'll be cheering on both her and Mao but I don't like to make predictions in fear of jinxing my favorites.

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