Kwan feature in Sports Illustrated

Just my feelings..

My feelings - from back in '98 - still persist on some level and if I had been judging I would have placed Michelle first.
2002 was different and part of me think's Michelle was a little lucky to even win bronze after one of the more lacklustre LP's of her career. I enjoyed Sasha much more than any of the others in SLC but her 4th place finish might have been right......

2002 and the "controversy" still seems odd to me. I thought Sarah outskated the others and deserved the OGM.

Another feeling is that Sarah was generously placed in 4th in the short. She rightfully won the long but I don't think Irina's long should have been ahead of Michelle.

EIGHT YEARS ago people!!

Switch Michelle Kwan's career titles around with anybody else, but let's say she won an Olympics with her two best skates of her life. Would you still prefer that other skater's career? Or do you guys prefer her skating and personal qualities? I'd always pick the quality of the performances over medals. Usually those two factors coincide, but when they don't, I much prefer the former.

In 1998 I have to put Tara over Michelle. Some of Michelle's fans say she was "reserved", but when I first saw that Olympic footage I thought she had an understated glowing expression that suited the music just fine--it's only in comparison to herself at her Nationals that same season that you can see a slight loss of radiance (the atmosphere at Nationals amplifies the impression, I think.) I give credit to Tara not because of Michelle's so-called reservedness (I would still have put Michelle 2nd if she skated exactly like at Nationals) but because Tara edged Michelle with the higher technical difficulty of her program--it was close, but when it's a near-tie between technical and artistic, I have to go with the technical athlete. It is a sport first, and the Olympics are a sporting event. What is especially regretful about it, however, is that Michelle would have won an Olympic gold with that performance in almost any other year.

Michelle is/was a tremendous skater with no real weaknesses and many strengths. I'm glad for her that she's looking forward to wonderful new horizons. However, I still don't think of the Olympics as "just like any other competition"; and the majority who medal/win are not merely lucky.

R.D. said:

EIGHT YEARS ago people!!

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I believe that the universe divided at that moment into two parallel universes. In the real universe, Michelle won and lived gloriously ever after.

Unfortunately, somehow I got stuck over here in the other one.

Oh well.

Mathman said:

I believe that the universe divided at that moment into two parallel universes. In the real universe, Michelle won and lived gloriously ever after.

Unfortunately, somehow I got stuck over here in the other one.

Oh well.

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Well, the other you in the "real universe" is celebrating forever after.

janetfan said:

I enjoyed Sasha much more than any of the others in SLC but her 4th place finish might have been right......

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I agree, I enjoyed Sasha. She was just a little spit fire and looked as though she was scared of nothing.

janetfan said:

I thought Sarah outskated the others and deserved the OGM.

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In my non-technical eyes, Sarah appeared to be the winner. When Michelle fell, it was the gasp heard around the world.

Even after 8 years, it's still good to have our discussions about who should have won. Just think if no one ever talked about History, how boring.

Rehashing 1998...I thought Tara deserved to win on the 1st mark, but Michelle on the 2nd mark. I would've had them 5.9/5.8 Vs 5.8/5.9, so Michelle would've gotten the 1st from me. I was OK with Tara winning, more so because she did skate her very best, had lots of energy, but I cannot stand her body pumping style, distracting/low jumps and thought her programs placed too much emphasis on a little, excited girl. I felt Lyra was a more sophisticated, mature program that didn't require a speed demon, instead played up to the nuances of the music and showed off a more artistic elegance. So in a way, both programs fit their skaters. But I will admit Tara had a gusty jump layout and a more difficult FW section. I just felt it wasn't her time yet.

Rehashing 2002...Sarah deserved to win the night of the LP. Yes, she had cheated/UR jumps, but she also had the most spark, gave the performance of a lifetime and had great transitions throughout her program. BUT I think she should've been lower in the SP though, 4th place was a huge gift. Had she been even 5th, she wouldn't have won despite being 1st in the LP. So, by that logic, she was a very lucky OGM. I also thought Michelle deserved to beat Irina in the LP, even with the fall on the flip. I really hated Tosca even when clean, so the shaky, labored LP w/o her expected 3/3s just came across empty aside from the hair wrenching. I believe had we not had the Pairs fiasco, Michelle would've been 2nd in the LP and Gold overall. I enjoyed Sasha's SP, but her LP was so front loaded and empty, I lost interest after she sat down on the 3lz/3toe.

All that said...if I could be a big elite skater, I'd dream of Michelle's career. She loved competing, emotionally reached so many people and delivered gold worthy performances over and over, but had the misfortune of the stars aligning for two competitors on two special nights. In '98, had Tara skated 1st, before Bonaly, who's to say Michelle would've been less "reserved" (I thought Lyra called for some quiet personality, but she was free-er at Nationals) and I bet she'd have gotten some 6.0's for presentation. Tara/Sarah had the skates of their lives when it mattered most and that was it for them. I'm sure they treasure their moments and wouldn't trade for a thing. Michelle has admitted to being devastated by no OGM, but she also wanted to be a Legend and I believe she is. So, I guess either career will do!

I bought the magazine for the article today and I can't believe how close she actually came to entering the 2010 Olympic season. Choreo of a short program! That was something! I hope one day she can watch her 2002 Olympic long program.

ah forget it.

prettykeys said:

In 1998 I have to put Tara over Michelle. Some of Michelle's fans say she was "reserved", but when I first saw that Olympic footage I thought she had an understated glowing expression that suited the music just fine--it's only in comparison to herself at her Nationals that same season that you can see a slight loss of radiance (the atmosphere at Nationals amplifies the impression, I think.) I give credit to Tara not because of Michelle's so-called reservedness (I would still have put Michelle 2nd if she skated exactly like at Nationals) but because Tara edged Michelle with the higher technical difficulty of her program--it was close, but when it's a near-tie between technical and artistic, I have to go with the technical athlete. It is a sport first, and the Olympics are a sporting event. What is especially regretful about it, however, is that Michelle would have won an Olympic gold with that performance in almost any other year.

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Huh?? In 1998 the rules reward presentation over tech in the free program. You can't just make a case of Tara winnng on the basis of her tech. If MK skated Olys the same way she skated nats, then she should have won OGM, because of her presentation. I agree on the OGM result, because Tara won by both tech and presentation.

Michelle is/was a tremendous skater with no real weaknesses and many strengths. I'm glad for her that she's looking forward to wonderful new horizons. However, I still don't think of the Olympics as "just like any other competition"; and the majority who medal/win are not merely lucky.

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Olys is not just another comp, but luck does play a small part. If the olys committee had not change the summer/ winter cycles e.g. having winter olys in 1992, and 1994, then 1996 should have been the yr for winter olys and is there any debate about who is the best skater in 1996?

Mathman said:

I believe that the universe divided at that moment into two parallel universes. In the real universe, Michelle won and lived gloriously ever after.

Unfortunately, somehow I got stuck over here in the other one.

Oh well.

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I couldn't say it better!

If I could be a skater, I'd rather skate like Michelle than like either of the two ladies (impressive though they are) who beat her for the gold in 1998 and 2002. (No surprise there.) Someone on YouTube said that when Michelle skates, she holds your soul in her hands. You may not all agree with that (tastes differ), but a large number of people do react to her skating that way, including me. She seems to distill the emotion in the music in a way that few other singles skaters do.

By the way, I found a recording of the complete (four sections) Lyra Angelica on YouTube. What an enlightening experience for a skating fan. In its original state the piece is lovely, ethereal, but irather diffuse. Lori Nichol's edit of it (with a bit of Erik Satie thrown in somewhere in the middle) does an awesome job of shaping it to form a narrative. As Michelle was the ideal interpreter of Nichol's programs, Nichol was the perfect choreographer for such an artistic skater.

Ironically, for years I couldn't watch that program, because of the results in the '98 Olympics. But then I got the brilliant idea of watching the Nationals version, which is the best one anyway. Now it's one of my favorite of Michelle's programs. It's so subtle, complex, and rich.

rtureck said:

Huh?? In 1998 the rules reward presentation over tech in the free program. You can't just make a case of Tara winnng on the basis of her tech. If MK skated Olys the same way she skated nats, then she should have won OGM, because of her presentation. I agree on the OGM result, because Tara won by both tech and presentation.

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Yes, I can just make a case of Tara winning purely on the basis of her tech. And no, I don't care about your opinion and criteria, which I disagree with. Michelle's presentation in 1998 was better than Tara's for the kinds of reasons that MKFSfan and others have outlined (TO ME, duhhhHHH)

rtureck said:

Olys is not just another comp, but luck does play a small part.

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Luck plays some part in almost everything. Hail me, I am the sage of the universe, for I share such profound truths with all.

I feel that Lipinski went into the Olympics with ideas for what her "artistry" would be and when she started nailing all her hard jumps it created something new and totally spontaneous which beat the planned artistry of what Kwan had. Now in US nationals 98 Kwan was so good she made her planned artistry seemed totally new and spontaneous and amazing but at the Olympics it kind of sat there but with Lipinski the raw happiness won the day in Presentation scores.

I was thinking about this conversation last night, and it occurred to me that one reason Michelle is such a standout in skating history is how much she's poured into competitions after she's been thrown off the horse at the Olympics. A lot of skaters can't get themselves motivated after such a disappointment. But Michelle won a World Championships within a year of each Olympics. That's pretty tenacious. In some ways, I stopped agonizing about the outcome of the 1998 Olympics when I realized that she might have stopped skating in 1998 if she'd had that Olympic gold. Can you imagine going without Red Violin, Song of the Black Swan, Aranjuez, and the other immortal post-1998 programs?

So Mathman, maybe that alternate universe isn't such a great place to be a Michelle fan. Maybe we're better off in this flawed timeline.

MKFSfan said:

Rehashing 1998...I thought Tara deserved to win on the 1st mark, but Michelle on the 2nd mark. I would've had them 5.9/5.8 Vs 5.8/5.9, so Michelle would've gotten the 1st from me.

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12 years ago, to be precise. But the debate goes on. I think Tara was over-marked on presentation. I also think Michelle was under-marked on tech. She did 7 triples, albeit no 3-3. Tara also was not penalized for her flutzing. I guess the difficult combos made up for that--? Michelle's skate was no more restrained than Yu Na's this year and as far as objective presentation is concerned, her positions and lines were perfect, her choreography intricate, her spiral impressive. I would also score Michelle 5.8 on tech, and 5.9 on presentation and Tara 5.9 on tech and no more than 5.8 on presentation, giving Michelle the FP win.

mousepotato said:

Winning and OGM does not make or break a great skater. You could win every competition you enter but the Olympic long program and that doesn't mean you didn't "make it" as a skater. All it means is you didn't get a gold medal at one of the competitions you entered.

On the flip side you have skaters like Sarah Hughes who no one outside of the skating world knows who happens to win a competition at the Olympics and people think she is better than what she really is. She never won nationals and only won one world bronze. She didn't exactly set the skating world on fire. I would rather have Michelle Kwan's career even without an OGM.

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I would rather have Witt's career with the Olympic Golds and many World titles and overall dominance as well than either Kwan or Hughes.

I would rather Yamaguchi's career with the Olympic Gold, World titles, and long and illustrious pro career than either Kwan or Hughes.

I would rather Yu Na Kim's career being a trailblazer for her country and winning Olympic and World gold than either Kwan or Hughes as well. And if she were to win in 2014 I would rather Asada's as well.

^ I hope you get your druthers. :yes:

Geez, this talk of parallel universes might lead one to think Michelle is not doing very well.
Based on the way things have been going for Ms Kwan I suspect the next chapter in her life will be as rich and fulfilling as her now legendary skating career.

Wuz wondering if anyone remembers this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45ZrhqfvKdQ

I guess she was 13 or 14 here and already such a charmer.