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Thread: Johnny Weir article...o dear o dear

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    Johnny Weir article...o dear o dear

    http://nymag.com/fashion/10/fall/67510/index3.html

    According to Weir, his sixth-place finish had less to do with his skating than with his relationship to glitter. “I felt going into the Olympics that I had very little support from my own country, from the U.S. Figure Skating federation,” he says one summer afternoon. “I went out there and I did everything I could possibly do, and I knew going into it that a medal wasn’t in my sights. It was political. In figure skating, there’s this thing, there’s a way that you can say, ‘Okay, if you help this skater, our skater, and promote him and push him to the top of the podium and help him get there, we will help yours.’ There’s a lot of that that goes on, and America likes to try and stay away from that issue, but everyone does it. I skated great, Evan skated great, we probably both should have been on the podium somewhere, but you know, the team official came to me and said, ‘We didn’t know you were going to skate like that.’ ”
    ........ “It’s very hard,” he says, “but you know, someone literally came to my coach while I was crying behind a curtain and said, ‘We wish we had known Johnny was going to skate that well, because we were pushing the two other Americans.’ And that takes balls to say that.”

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    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    oh dear, fire up the violins...

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    nefertiti..reincarnate
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    There's one thing very true and that's Johnny skated really GREAT.
    From an architect's view (which is mine), Johnny showed aesthetically the best performance among the US men. He had something very much of his own that he shaped into a near perfection within his physical limits, IMO. Skating-wise I don't have the confidence nor enough knowledge to say where he should have placed, but in my eyes certainly not 6th place.

    There's probably more to this than just Johnny acting like a bad loser.
    He has, to quite an extent, objectivity in what he says about judging ... marks are given under preconceived classifications ... this was commonly speculated on this board too.
    His style in expressing this (relative) objectivity, however, is too naive as usual, and would again get lots of negative reactions, I'll guess.

    (But maybe he could care less about what he loses or gains by expressing his views in this manner.)

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    It's a fact: the third place skater or team in any discipline in any country always has a hard row to hoe.

    I don't think anyone would dispute that in the US, Johnny was viewed by TPTB as behind Abbott and Lysacek going into the 2010 Olympics.

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    Although Weir succeeded in his jumping really well (only in one he lost a little bit) I think it is Weir´s own fault to skate to an empty programme lacking transitions in a CoP-competition. And as he is no Plushenko or Joubert, he was punished for it. Also I think that if Weir had skated after Plushenko, his PCS scores might actually have been higher, perhaps. Now he was unlucky to skate after Takahashi, whose wonderful CoP-programme, speed and great musicality made Weir´s programme and performance look even more lacking.

    In my opinion Weir is a poor loser blaming other people for his lack of success. Instead he should stand before a mirror and take a hard look, LOL.

    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    It's a fact: the third place skater or team in any discipline in any country always has a hard row to hoe.
    Hmm, Lysacek was 3rd in 2009 US Nationals and he won the 2009 Worlds....

    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I don't think anyone would dispute that in the US, Johnny was viewed by TPTB as behind Abbott and Lysacek going into the 2010 Olympics.
    And whose fault is that? Weir should have worked harder for reputation.
    Last edited by Jaana; 08-17-2010 at 12:48 PM.

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    I agree with Jaana.

    I used to like and admire Johnny, but with all his unjustified complaining he's become a bore. At the Olympics his jumps were beautiful, and twelve years ago they might have won him a medal, but it's not a jumping contest any more. There was nothing in that programme besides elements. You'd think that someone who supposedly has so much personality off-ice would insist on having a programme with the choreography to highlight his undoubted artistic strengths. But if you give the judges nothing to mark, you can't blame them for placing you accordingly.

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    There's an example of faulty logic that's often cited: Van Gogh, a great painter, sold just one painting during his lifetime. I have sold just one painting in my lifetime. That proves that I'm a great painter.

    Johnny is a wonderful skater. But, news flash, there are other wonderful skaters out there, too. There's no way this guy beats out Takahashi, even if Takahashi falls as he did in the long program. There's no way he beats out Plushenko, who even after a four-year hiatus commands the ice better than almost anyone else. As for Lysacek, you can love his program or not, but the fact is that he was "on" those two nights, and he did a lot more and complied with the rules a lot better than Johnny. What else were the judges supposed to judge, other than the elements they had ruled were required?

    Just because Johnny disdains the "system" doesn't make him better or more inspired than the above-mentioned skaters, or better than Lambiel or Oda (even with stumbles). It's not as if Johnny's the artist and the others are all klutzes with good jumps and spins.

    If Johnny wants to skate outside the system, he's welcome to. In these days of online productions, surely he'll find a way to reach an audience. But he can't expect the system to disregard other excellent skaters, who happen to be following the rules, in order to reward his achievements.

    Several phenomenal skaters have gotten within a hair of an OGM--either through bad luck or the vagaries of judging--and have not whined about their lot. Ctertainly Brian Orser and Michelle Kwan could legitimately complain that their good points were unfairly disregarded in a squeaker of a final. With Orser, it happened twice, in '84 and '88. (Not to detract from Boitano's wonderful program, or his victory!) But they held their peace and didn't cheapen either their silver or their rivals' gold. Even Nancy Kerrigan, who grumped a bit after getting the silver, straightened up and moved past it. No tiresome "the judges don't appreciate my artistry." As Slutskaya said after getting the silver in 2002, "Well, this is sport." Some days everything goes your way, and some days not.

    If Johnny wants to portray himself as a rebel, that's grand. But he's not such a knockout skater that he can insist that only politics stood between him and an OGM. Lysacek, Plushy, Takahashi, and some others also stood between him and the top of the podium.
    Last edited by Olympia; 08-17-2010 at 03:40 PM.

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    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    I would agree that Johnny's status with USFS is his own fault. And his skating, good or bad, is entirely his own responsibility. Plus he should not have gotten sick in 2009. However, life is like that.

    However, citing Evan's 3rd place in 2009 at Nationals is irrelevant-he had a bad competition at Nationals, but I think he was still perceived as the number one skater in the US by the federation.

    It is still also true that it is a good thing to be viewed as the number one skater in your discipline in your federation.

    That does not detract from the good performances of both Evan and Johnny at Olympics.

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    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    I agree with much of what has been said by Olympia and others , but I can understand how Johnny can feel the way he does ( even if I don't feel he can be entirely objective about it ). I can't spout all the specifics cases off the top of my head, but historically , Johnny has often been treated pretty shabbily by his federation ( never mind commentators,etc.). I remember thinking it was pretty harsh a number of times ...particularly when he was still in his 'teens.

    So often it's the case, if you come down on young person with any spirit too strongly for 'outside' behaviour , they'll just give it back in spades.( Try telling them that's self defeating..)..And for TPTB , maybe a small deviation from conformity , way back when ,might not have been so bad , after all.

    That said ,it's all water under the bridge , now. I don't think there's much of a chance that Johnny can make a big comeback at the 'amateur' level,at this stage of the game..and I think it's time to move on.
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 08-17-2010 at 04:38 PM.

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    Custom Title 76olympics's Avatar
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    Honestly, I think Johnny did have an excellent chance for an Olympic medal in 2006 with the programs he had then and he "lost the plot." I think the judges did appreciate his artistry, but they watched while he let inspiration overpower perspiration over and over. He made emotional decisions about choreography and training and it cost him in credibility and stamina.

    I think you can like Johnny and his skating and I do and still be exasperated with him. He is articulate, but I think he isn't doing himself any favors in interviews right now. I was pleased that he had a much better Olympic showing this time and I felt like Plushenko showed admirable strength in coming back as strongly as he did, but in the aftermath I want to send them on vacation together for a month or so. They both like Russians and they both feel like they were robbed and I wish they would just exhaust themselves expressing this to each other on an isolated island.

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    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    *Gasp* National federations play favorites? They make deals and do favors for each other? What is the sport coming to?

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 76olympics View Post
    Honestly, I think Johnny did have an excellent chance for an Olympic medal in 2006 with the programs he had then and he "lost the plot." I think the judges did appreciate his artistry, but they watched while he let inspiration overpower perspiration over and over. He made emotional decisions about choreography and training and it cost him in credibility and stamina.

    I think you can like Johnny and his skating and I do and still be exasperated with him. He is articulate, but I think he isn't doing himself any favors in interviews right now. I was pleased that he had a much better Olympic showing this time and I felt like Plushenko showed admirable strength in coming back as strongly as he did, but in the aftermath I want to send them on vacation together for a month or so. They both like Russians and they both feel like they were robbed and I wish they would just exhaust themselves expressing this to each other on an isolated island.:


    Actually, it appears Plushy has moved on. Maybe because he is already an Olympic Champion (and on an off-night(s) an Olympic Silver medalist) the 2010 Olympic games will not be something he whines about for the rest of his life.

    Unfortunately I don't think that will be true for Johnny :sheesh:
    Although between the two of them they have managed to make Evan seem like the most wonderful and gracious skater of this era.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    I would agree that Johnny's status with USFS is his own fault. And his skating, good or bad, is entirely his own responsibility. Plus he should not have gotten sick in 2009. However, life is like that.

    However, citing Evan's 3rd place in 2009 at Nationals is irrelevant-he had a bad competition at Nationals, but I think he was still perceived as the number one skater in the US by the federation.

    It is still also true that it is a good thing to be viewed as the number one skater in your discipline in your federation.

    That does not detract from the good performances of both Evan and Johnny at Olympics.
    I dunno - I'd argue that Weir's comments do precisely that. I'd be interested to see who he thinks he should have beaten.

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    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    I dunno - I'd argue that Weir's comments do precisely that. I'd be interested to see who he thinks he should have beaten.
    As they say "you do the math" or better yet read the article.

    Johnny said he and Evan both belonged on the Olympic podium.
    So that can only mean Johnny thinks he outskated either Plushy or Dai - not to mention Patrick and Stephane.
    Actually, I thought Johnny did outskate Patrick and Stephane in Vancouver and should have been 4th.
    But not on the podium.

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    Oh, I know, but Johnny likes artistry. So does he become third and push Dai - a wonderfully pure skating artist, off the podium? Or does he twist it around push Plushenko off and keep Dai on. Dai fell, so I suspect him, but that excludes Dai's wonderful sp. Granted, I think logic is missing the podium of self aggrandizement and the desire for media attention, so ... shrug.

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