Johnny Weir article...o dear o dear

i love to skate · Aug 18, 2010

Blades of Passion said:
Johnny's remark WAS truthful and I'm not going to debate that point any more since GS does not allow people to talk about such things. Also note that Johnny has never lied about statements regarding his sexual orientation, only that he doesn't want to talk about it and wants his skating and other creative achievements to form the discussion. It's incredibly clear who the more honest person is and who has instead decided to form a fake persona in order to benefit his career with image of being "a good old American boy".

So because Blades of Passion said so...it must be true! All you are doing is adding to the rumour mill. Evan hasn't made a public statement to this, so there is absolutely no confirmation. To be quite honest, if you don't have anything to back up this statement with, what's the point in saying something is true?

As for Johnny, if he is so honest and the comment was truthful, why did he try and back track and deny the situation?

janetfan · Aug 18, 2010

colleen o'neill said:
Blades[/B Chan is a bit different to my mind..you know he has to feel the music, or his timing wouldn't be so good. I don't know if I can articulate this properly, but to me it feels like his reserve is with himself. It's like he can't ( or won't) fully allow himself to respond to the music in an emotional way. As if he's holding it in check.

But with the skills, emotion, projection that Johnny has, I can't fathom why they pared his program down as much as they did. I feel sure he could have handled more. Watching him at the time,though it was beautiful , I had the feeling that it wasn't going to be enough .

I think other posters pointed out quite accurately that "with all of his skills" Johnny is a slow skater. If one is not into the glitzy costumes and the idea of androgyny (or whatever Weir is supposed to be presenting) he can seem on the dull side. Even Button has pointed out how Johnny is basically a very traditional skater and his loud costumes have very little to do with how he skates and might even detract from his very classic skating style.

I much prefer Patrick's skating and style to Johnny's - but to be fair Patrick has exceptional SS.
The idea that Patrick is not overly emotional does not bother me in the least.
We should remember skating ratings are down - and not every fan is looking for a guy trying to skate like Oksana or even Lambiel.

Some may prefer a guy skating like a guy - Ryan Bradley comes to mind. Then we have Joubert and Plushy with their cheesey pelvic thrusts and second rate attempts at machismo. In my mind neither of them has a prayer of showing a vision of the masculine form the way John Curry did. I don't care much about a skater's orientation - but I am not so easily fooled at some of what passes for PE and artistry.

Back to Patrick - all he does is skate with some of the finest technical skills ever seen. Does he have to emote like a Lambiel or be as extroverted as Dai to be a top skater?

Let's consider his back to back Silver medals at Worlds - and truthfully I don't think we have seen Patrick anywhere close to reaching his potential yet.

For me sometimes it is just about the skating. But I realize skating need variety too.
Johnny hasn't really changed much over the years. Neither has Plushy or Evan. The difference though is that Plushy and Evan have won the biggest titles. Johnny and his team should have realized a few years ago that it takes more than attention grabbing costumes and controversial behavior to consistently make the podiums at the biggest competitions.

Johnny is a fine skater. I was happy that he skated so well in Vancouver. Apparently it wasn't enough for him - in which case maybe he should have considered competing this year. He seems to want the respect, adoration and riches that come to World and Olympic skating champions.
The best way to achieve that is to.....actually become a World/Olympic champion. Maybe he forgot that part :think:

Last thought - if Johnny does put together his own touring show I would go see it. I have alot of respect for Johnny's skating talent and the years of work he put into it. It's just some of the non-skating issues about him are not my cup of tea.. But to each his own.

Blades of Passion · Aug 18, 2010

i love to skate said:
So because Blades of Passion said so...it must be true! All you are doing is adding to the rumour mill. Evan hasn't made a public statement to this, so there is absolutely no confirmation. To be quite honest, if you don't have anything to back up this statement with, what's the point in saying anything?

As for Johnny, if he is so honest and the comment was truthful, why did he try and back track and deny the situation? Johnny should take a page from his own book and let Evan decide if he wants to address his sexuality, and not do it for him...

Johnny's comment was never meant to be a public statement. He certainly didn't Twitter about it or attempt to degrade, which is what Evan's comment was.

Also, you can consider it rumor if you want to, but that falls within your own domain of information. I have mine and that's what I will base my thoughts off of. The facts of life don't require public statements for them to be true or not. You'll just consider the statement about Evan false until you find out otherwise for sure, which I'm guessing will never happen since it's unlikely you'll ever know him or that he will make a public statement (unless it becomes lucrative to do so, of course). And for the record I'm not labeling Evan either since it would be against the forum rules. But if you're going to talk about the subject I'm going to let my viewpoint be know (in other words, stop talking about it since this discussion will lead nowhere).

colleen o'neill said:
But with the skills, emotion, projection that Johnny has, I can't fathom why they pared his program down as much as they did. I feel sure he could have handled more. Watching him at the time,though it was beautiful , I had the feeling that it wasn't going to be enough .

Galina was ultimately not a good coach for him. She didn't really understand his style of skating and her focus was too much on just doing the moves anyway.

Johnny is naturally artistic and smooth across the ice, so that was still able to shine through in his LP at the Olympics, but it could have been a lot better. He was still superior to most everyone who placed above him, though. Plushenko's skills had deteriorated quite a bit; he didn't display much flow across the ice and his spins were weaker than Johnny's. Lambiel was messy all the way through and the program was one of the least interesting of his entire career. Chan fell and I've talked about why he doesn't deserve to be considered highly artistic for that program despite strong skating skills and transitions. And then there's Lysacek who had the most feeble musical interpretation out of anyone in the top 9.

Actually I should address something I didn't earlier:

colleen o'neill said:
Ahem, Ahem..time out...Sorry, I can't let this pass. Please, if you're trying to be fair.. you simply cannot hold up Plushy's program as an example of good choreography and /or musical interpretation.

Why are you grouping choreography and interpretation as the same thing?

Choreographically Plushenko had the most empty program out of anyone in the top 9 but in terms of Interpretation he was certainly better than Lysacek. Look at the way he begins his program, letting the music play without moving at all to build up dramatic effect, and then hitting a series of positions that are perfectly timed with the notes of the music. His unconventional arm and facial movements between elements throughout the program often reflect the alluring nature of the tango music. Look at how he tries to act out the emotion of the program during his footwork sequences as well, including a very overtly sexual reference (fitting with the music) towards the end of his circular step sequence.

Compare that to Lysacek who literally did nothing of great value in relation to the music. He hit a few vaguely "Egyptian" poses which were somehow supposed to be meaningful simply because he's skating to Scheherazade (absolutely laughable since they were disconnected with the rest of the program), he did some transitions which NEVER highlighted the music, he did boring and impersonal arm movements during his rest section, he randomly grabbed his head a couple times, and then he threw his arms into his ending pose completely out of time with the music at the end of the program. His facial expression throughout the entire program was mostly blank and vacant. How does any of that showcase good artistry? It doesn't. He doesn't have any. All he did was go through the motions to a program that wasn't interesting in the first place.

Plushenko's musical interpretation in the SP was horrendous but he did good things in the LP. His deeply deteriorated skating skills are what held him back from deserving a podium spot in my eyes. He should have been able to do all of that acting with better speed and stronger edges and turns. He was far, far below his 2006 form. His LP was still better than Lysacek's, though. At least it had personality and meaning.

i love to skate · Aug 18, 2010

Blades of Passion said:
Johnny's comment was never meant to be a public statement. He certainly didn't Twitter about it or attempt to degrade, which is what Evan's comment was.

Well he went on a National talk show so it is pretty obvious that anything you do in a forum like that will be under scrutiny. He also didn't backtrack until he found out that many, many people were upset with him, calling him a hypocrite, etc. So it seems to me he only tried to correct himself because it was causing some negativity towards his "image"

You also don't think it is degrading to call someone a slore? That word combines two of the most degrading words in the English language...

Blades of Passion said:
Also, you can consider it rumor if you want to, but that falls within your own domain of information. I have mine and that's what I will base my thoughts off of. The facts of life don't require public statements for them to be true or not. You'll just consider the statement about Evan false until you find out otherwise for sure, which I'm guessing will never happen since it's unlikely you'll ever know him or that he will make a public statement (unless it becomes lucrative to do so, of course). And for the record I'm not labeling Evan either since it would be against the forum rules. But if you're going to talk about the subject I'm going to let my viewpoint be know (in other words, stop talking about it since this discussion will lead nowhere).

Sure, you will believe what you want to believe and so will I. If you have personal information that sways your opinion, good for you. However, why did you present your opinion as fact by saying that Johnny's statement was truthful? You can't publicly present something as being the truth without having the facts to back it up with - especially on an internet forum.

I also think it is pretty clear what you labelled Evan. It does no good to say; "well the statement Johnny made was true but I am not going to label Evan or say anything more on the matter because that is against the rules,"

Blades of Passion · Aug 18, 2010

janetfan said:
Back to Patrick - all he does is skate with some of the finest technical skills ever seen. Does he have to emote like a Lambiel or be as extroverted as Dai to be a top skater?

No, but his programs need to actually do something. Compare his Phantom of the Opera to Takahashi's. The problem isn't so much that Patrick isn't emoting as much as Takahashi (although this is probably music that does require a more overt outward expression to be fully successful), the problem is that Patrick's program simply fails to create a spark. It doesn't take you on a journey of emotions. The movements don't really reflect the music. They are just there. And they are gorgeous individually, but that doesn't speak to musical interpretation. Patrick's program LP 2009 was a lot better.

In fact, the packaging of Patrick's SP in 2009 was better too even though it was the same music and his jumps have improved in quality since then. In 2010 Patrick changed his costume to something that was trying to be "sexier" and tried to kind of emote in that way more as well. It doesn't really fit with the music. In 2009 Patrick seemed to have a level of introspection that worked pretty well with the music. In 2010 he tried to be more bombastic and it didn't work for me. He is a skater who would be better off trying to be subtle and/or classical. I don't think he really has much talent for dramatic acting or tapping into deep emotions.

ImaginaryPogue · Aug 18, 2010

Blades of Passion said:
Johnny's remark WAS truthful and I'm not going to debate that point any more since GS does not allow people to talk about such things. Also note that Johnny has never lied about statements regarding his sexual orientation, only that he doesn't want to talk about it and wants his skating and other creative achievements to form the discussion. It's incredibly clear who the more honest person is and who has instead decided to form a fake persona in order to benefit his career with image of being "a good old American boy".

There's really nothing more to say because it's pointless to argue with people who aren't in the business and will buy into whatever the media tells them.

1. Do you really believe that about Johnny vis-a-vis his achievements? Do you really think provocative statements, like the one he said about PETA/wearing fur really is about signalling his creative achievements/athletic accomplishments. Here are is own words on the subject

"PETA has been up my butt since the 2006 Olympic Games. I get postcards and nasty hate mail and videotapes of animals being skinned. And while I feel bad and understand their side of things, I take my little autograph card and I sign my name and I draw a chipmunk with X's over its eyes and I mail it back. Don't attack me for a personal choice. You're protecting animals. We have soldiers dying all over the world. Choose your battles. Don't pick on me."

(emphasis mine - and though you disdain internet links, in the interest of backing it up - HERE)

How does his attitude here/personal choice therein allow/promote his "skating and other creative achievements to form the discussion?" I'd argue they do precisely the opposite.

As for the rest - I'm curious about it, so PM me if you want. I'm not buying into what the media tells me, but I'd like more than just a provocateur stirring the pot.

Blades of Passion · Aug 18, 2010

i love to skate said:
You also don't think it is degrading to call someone a slore? That word combines two of the most degrading words in the English language...

I've not seen that statement. But in any case, I don't think telling the truth is a bad thing.

Stating you don't like someone's skating or you don't like their personality is a lot different than simply making something up about them in order to degrade. That is exactly what Lysacek did. I find him to be a hateful and irritating person in general and his public statements and demeanor often show glimpses of that real life personality. This recent case was the biggest display of that yet. Trying to degrade someone by stating it can't be determined if they are male or not is not only untruthful name-calling, it also shows clear signs of ignorant prejudice.

It taps into bigotism in a very revolting way and Johnny would never make such a prejudiced statement like that. The very idea of using gender to form the basis for a insult is so incredibly closed minded and last century. Lysacek's statement also shows a clear lack of perspective. He himself has to deal with prejudice and his words display an abundant level of hateful selfishness.

i love to skate said:
Sure, you will believe what you want to believe and so will I. If you have personal information that sways your opinion, good for you. However, why did you present your opinion as fact by saying that Johnny's statement was truthful? You can't publicly present something as being the truth without having the facts to back it up with - especially on an internet forum.

I also think it is pretty clear what you labelled Evan. It does no good to say; "well the statement Johnny made was true but I am not going to label Evan or say anything more on the matter because that is against the rules,"

I do have the facts to back it up, just not an internet link. As such, it's not something allowed to be talked about on GS and I haven't concretely labeled Evan, I've simply agreed with Johnny's statement. It's a gray area I am comfortable living in as long as people are intent on discussing the subject.

ImaginaryPogue said:
Do you really think provocative statements, like the one he said about PETA/wearing fur really is about signalling his creative achievements/athletic accomplishments. Here are is own words on the subject

HERE

How does his attitude here/personal choice therein allow/promote his "skating and other creative achievements to form the discussion?" I'd argue they do precisely the opposite.

Costumes are part of figure skating, thus Johnny talking about his costumes does indeed relate to creative achievements. I don't think it's wrong of him to answer questions of this nature in interviews rather than just saying "I don't want to talk about it." It is relevant to his skating.

I don't find Johnny's perspective on the issue to be an incorrect one either. There are indeed FAR more important issues in the World than animal fur being used on costumes. If animals from an endangered species were being killed to make costumes that would be one thing, but that's not the case.

As for Johnny drawing a chipmunk with X's over its eyes and sending it back to PETA, I find that to be not only a correct response but also a hilarious one. By Johnny's accounts PETA has harassed him over the issue and sent him revolting mail and media on the issue. I am not a person who puts up with being harassed and it's good to see that Johnny isn't either. He took a stance on the issue and defended himself rather than ignoring it, which is good. He he also done that with regards to USFSA screwing him over and that's good to see as well.

But of course some people would rather just label it as "whining" because they think skaters should be submissive about everything.

i love to skate · Aug 18, 2010

Blades of Passion said:
I've not seen that statement. But in any case, I don't think telling the truth is a bad thing.

Stating you don't like someone's skating or you don't like their personality is a lot different than simply making something up about them in order to degrade.

You seem to be very one sided on this argument. Johnny is not innocent in this fight between the two skaters as he has also resorted to name calling, acting extremely immature, saying untruthful things, crafting a carefully planted "that's not what I meant" interview and making degrading comments (slore).

Johnny certainly is a controversial figure and he took a hit when he went on Chelsea Lately. Just look at some of the comments that followed in this story:

http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2010/03/31/johnny-weir-stokes-evan-lysacek-gay-rumors/

Therefore, after the backlash he came out with the "that's not what I meant" interview. Johnny cares just as much about his image and the interview that followed was damage control. I don't believe for a second that the "I don't want to talk about my sexuality, I want my life to speak for itself, I don't need to answer this question" image is any less carefully crafted than Evan's "American Guy" image...

dorispulaski · Aug 19, 2010

As long as we're not discussing something, could we just not discuss it?

But I want one of those Johnny autographs with the x=ed out chipmunk eyes! I'd frame it

Mathman · Aug 19, 2010

janetfan said:
As to the influence of federations - hmmmm, can we assume that in '98 the US federation was lobbying behind the scenes for Tara? :sheesh: Or is it known that the USA judge placed Michelle first? Since Michelle was our Natl champion and skated pretty well in Nagano how do you explain Tara's win?

I think that was an example where the USFSA liked both of their skaters and did not push one ahead of the other, particularly. This was the contest about which Tatiana Tarasova roundly ridiculed the U.S. for its naivity in not knowing how to play the ISU political game. She said about Frank Carroll, "Why didn't he just slip us a bottle of Vodka? What did we (the Russian block) care which American girl won?"

On he other hand, men's bronze medalist Philippe Candeloro said plainly, "Of course we (the French federation) make deals. If we didn't, we would never win any medals at all."

By the way, while the Russian and Ukranian judges both gave Tara 5.9/5.9, the two "artistic/musical judges" on the panel -- Joe Inman of the U.S. and Jan Hoffmann of Germany -- went for Michelle.

Blades of Passion said:
Things in the World are only real if there is an internet link talking about it.

Vid or it didn't happen.

prettykeys · Aug 20, 2010

This thread is awesome. Thank you, Johnny.

First of all, Johnny can be irreverent, but I don't believe he is a bad sport...and certainly not a liar. The first of this post is a statement by him saying that "Evan skated great." End of story.

Second, I believe him when he says that the USFSA was pushing for Evan and Jeremy. To be honest, I don't even blame the USFSA - Evan and Jeremy had some of their strongest finishes/performances before the Olympics, while Johnny isn't at his peak anymore. Unfair to Johnny, but understandable - and you have to be terribly naive or blind if you don't think the USFSA did that. As others have stated, the third skater/skating team representing a federation gets hit the hardest. Also, where feasible (i.e. there is a vague comparability between some skaters/teams), I suspect that there is a general sentiment that leans towards making podiums as diverse as possible. Look at the 2010 podiums: each is comprised of skaters or teams from 3 different nations, except for the Pairs, where China got Gold and Silver - and some believe Pang/Tong gave the strongest performance in that discipline. They are also generally held to be one of the top contenders in the world. Thus, it may be prudent for a federation to gamble on who seems to be their best bet(s), instead of a free-for-all where none of their skaters may make it on board, or to their best potential with some push.

It is believable to me if USFSA officials wished they hadn't pushed Jeremy over Johnny and instead at least remained neutral. "Hey, if the American officials think Johnny is the weakest of the three, and Jeremy has skated blah tonight, then Johnny must logically be worse." I think that is the sort of reasoning that might happen, even if subconsciously.

Anyway, I thought Johnny skated beautifully in Vancouver, but I am not sure if I would have put him on the podium, either.

prettykeys · Aug 20, 2010

Mathman said:
I think that was an example where the USFSA liked both of their skaters and did not push one ahead of the other, particularly. This was the contest about which Tatiana Tarasova roundly ridiculed the U.S. for its naivity in not knowing how to play the ISU political game. She said about Frank Carroll, "Why didn't he just slip us a bottle of Vodka? What did we (the Russian block) care which American girl won?"

On he other hand, men's bronze medalist Philippe Candeloro said plainly, "Of course we (the French federation) make deals. If we didn't, we would never win any medals at all."

By the way, while the Russian and Ukranian judges both gave Tara 5.9/5.9, the two "artistic/musical judges" on the panel -- Joe Inman of the U.S. and Jan Hoffmann of Germany -- went for Michelle.

A little off-topic, but I just wanted to briefly discuss this (sorry!) I agree with you and Blades that both Michelle and Tara were liked and respected. Tarasova also preserves the virtue of Michelle and Frank Carroll with her statements - if Michelle had won Gold (or anything else) via vodka, it just wouldn't be the same. Finally, is Poland part of the Russian block or no? The Polish judge marked the FS the same as the German judge.

(For the record, Austria and France gave Tara 5.9/5.9 as well.

I guess they're not into art? :biggrin:

)

Mathman · Aug 20, 2010

prettykeys said:
Finally, is Poland part of the Russian block or no?

That's a good question. Historically, Poland suffered the geographical misfortune of being located between Germany and Russia -- a rock and a hard place, indeed. I don't know how all that affected figure skating -- but I always found it suspicious that Polish judges favored Drobiazko and Vanagas, while Lithuanian judges went out of their way to help Zagorska and Suidik. Ingrained racial memories of the glory days of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (1569-1795)?

(By the way, I just looked it up, and Zagorska and Suidik have the same number of national titles as Michelle Kwan -- nine. According to Wikipedia, Dobriaszko and Vanagas have 13. :clap:

)

The Polish judge marked the FS the same as the German judge.

And that would be the East German judge. Four years earlier he cast the deciding vote for Oksana Baiul against Nancy Kerrigan.

(For the record, Austria and France gave Tara 5.9/5.9 as well. I guess they're not into art?)

I wish there had been a Chinese judge, and that this judge had voted for Tara. That way, the Polish judge went for the Chinese girl and the Chinese judge went for the Polish girl. Then if the US judge had switched his vote to Lu Chen, that would have been be so ecumenically satisfying. :yes:

Plus, then there could have been a headline, "Chinese skater beats Kwan."

But seriously, I think the only "pro-Michelle" bias on the part of the USFSA was a certain sentiment that "this was Michelle's turn" and we could hold Tara in reserve for 2002. Funny how things work out.

janetfan · Aug 20, 2010

German unification was achieved in 1990 - so wouldn't have former E. German skater and judge Jan Hofman been judging for a unified Germany in 1998 and 1994 as well?

By 1998 Poland was free of Russian influence and has since become a member of Nato. Having lived in the Czech Republic in 1993-4 I also made a few trips to Poland. Like the Czechs, the Polish people had intensely bad feelings about the Soviet Union and Russia. By the '98 Olympics the Poles were in no way under the influence or control of the Russian Olympic federations. The Polish judge placed Michelle first because he/she obvioulsy felt the same way the USA judge did. That Michelle's more refined skating trumped Tara's tech.

Blades of Passion · Aug 20, 2010

Oh we can talk in here again? Huzzah.

i love to skate said:
You seem to be very one sided on this argument. Johnny is not innocent in this fight between the two skaters as he has also resorted to name calling, acting extremely immature, saying untruthful things, crafting a carefully planted "that's not what I meant" interview and making degrading comments (slore).

Johnny has said nothing about Evan that I find untruthful. His comment of "slore" was rather tame compared to what Evan had been saying; he could have been far harsher if he wanted too. Instead, he simply shrugged Evan off with a funny aside.

i love to skate said:
Johnny certainly is a controversial figure and he took a hit when he went on Chelsea Lately. Just look at some of the comments that followed in this story:

http://outsports.com/jocktalkblog/2010/03/31/johnny-weir-stokes-evan-lysacek-gay-rumors/

Therefore, after the backlash he came out with the "that's not what I meant" interview. Johnny cares just as much about his image and the interview that followed was damage control.

Evan being perceived as gay would hurt his career far more than it would hurt Johnny's for being considered the one to call him out. Only people who already disliked Johnny criticized him for the Chelsea Lately thing. And, FYI, it was a wink and not a comment. Johnny never said "Evan is gay". Such is a the power of innuendo, smart move. Would you have preferred that he LIED in response to Chelsea's question (I'm guessing yes, since that's more "PC" with regards to the issue)?

Also, note the statement "that's not what I meant" is different than completely changing your stance. Johnny of course would not want to specifically call anyone out, that's simply rude. He hinted and suggested but there was never a concrete statement. As such, saying "that's not what I meant" gets people off his back about the issue while not actually creating a lie. Because, indeed, Johnny never meant to directly call Evan out. You can be sure he would rather talk about 100,000 other issues rather than Evan's sexuality, so the "damage control" interview got it out of the way so he wouldn't have to waste his time with it any further. He didn't need to make that statement to somehow preserve his career.

i love to skate said:
I don't believe for a second that the "I don't want to talk about my sexuality, I want my life to speak for itself, I don't need to answer this question" image is any less carefully crafted than Evan's "American Guy" image...

LMAO!!!!

Johnny's neutral stance about his sexuality is not crafted in the first place. Johnny doesn't change who he is AT ALL in order to create a fake image of himself. He hasn't tried to alter his mannerisms or alter the pitch of his voice or stop talking about certain subjects in order to fit into a mold of "maybe he's gay, maybe he isn't." Let's be honest - everyone knows Johnny is gay. He hasn't tried to make people think he isn't gay either. He is always himself and he always says what he wants to say. Johnny simply doesn't want to talk about his sexuality because he doesn't want to be at the forefront of gay rights, gay issues, etc. He wants his skating, his fashion, and his artistry to be the topics of discussion and the focuses of his life.

Evan, on the other hand, HAS altered his public mannerisms and voice and personality in order to create a fake persona. Do I blame him for it? Not really. However, the very fact that he has taken on such a persona directly corresponds to who he is as a person. Evan needs to act like the All American Good Ole' Boy in order to get more attention because there is simply nothing else about him that is notable. He isn't a phenomenal skater, he isn't funny, he isn't artistic, he doesn't have interesting opinions, and he doesn't have a stunning body like Brian Joubert. Flogging the put-on image of "Awww, isn't he such a nice guy with good, conservative American values" is the only realm of fandom he is able to draw in.

janetfan · Aug 20, 2010

Blades of Passion said:
Evan, on the other hand, HAS altered his public mannerisms and voice and personality in order to create a fake persona. Do I blame him for it? Not really. However, the very fact that he has taken on such a persona directly corresponds to who he is as a person. Evan needs to act like the All American Good Ole' Boy in order to get more attention because there is simply nothing else about him that is notable. He isn't a phenomenal skater, he isn't funny, he isn't artistic, he doesn't have interesting opinions, and he doesn't have a stunning body like Brian Joubert. Flogging the put-on image of "Awww, isn't he such a nice guy with good, conservative American values" is the only realm of fandom he is able to draw in.

Evan may not be a "phenomenal skater" but he has done pretty well for himself.
He has been WC, GPF Champion and Olympic champion. He has not missed a podium since Torino '06 - where despite being sick he still finished ahead of Johnny.

Some of the things you say about Evan would lead one to believe you know him very well. Or are these simply more of your opinions?

Here is something that might make a few of us smile:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40LnHBPpz30

How can anyone not love Evan

Layfan · Aug 20, 2010

janetfan said:
Although between the two of them they have managed to make Evan seem like the most wonderful and gracious skater of this era.

And that does take talent...

Blades of Passion · Aug 20, 2010

janetfan said:
Evan may not be a "phenomenal skater" but he has done pretty well for himself.
He has been WC, GPF Champion and Olympic champion. He has not missed a podium since Torino '06 - where despite being sick he still finished ahead of Johnny.

Evan missed the podium at 2007 Worlds. He should have missed the podium at 2005 Worlds, 2006 Worlds and 2010 Olympics as well. *shrug*

But, yes, his relative consistency has helped him a lot. Evan's defining quality as a skater is definitely that he is a fighter. That alone does not warrant being the Olympic Champion, though. Look at Mirai Nagasu and Rachael Flatt, who skated a clean SP + clean LP at the Olympics with plenty of technical content. They didn't even get a medal. Why? Because other competitors were seen as more artistic than they were. If the skaters' performances had been properly judged in the Men's event, I believe Evan also should have been off the podium. The PCS marks he got were way off base and it's all politics.

janetfan said:
Some of the things you say about Evan would lead one to believe you know him very well.

Well enough.

janetfan said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=40LnHBPpz30

How can anyone not love Evan

Sigh, SO scripted. "Snoopy On Ice" would have been an adorable comment if it wasn't fake, though.

Layfan · Aug 20, 2010

I still don't get how Lambiel beat Johnny but I definitely don't get how Johnny works out that he should have been on the podium :rolleye:

I think you can like Johnny and his skating and I do and still be exasperated with him. He is articulate, but I think he isn't doing himself any favors in interviews right now.

This is how I feel ... I get annoyed with Johnny, but whatever, I still enjoy his skating. Anyway, it has to be frustrating for Johnny. He tried to play it off at the Olympics like it didn't matter and the fan reaction and his own skating was more important to to him than what the judges thought but clearly it is eating him that he didn't place higher and he can't help but express it publicly.
Well, he IS an Olympic competitor. Those guys go there to win and they don't like to lose. Johnny's no different...

janetfan · Aug 20, 2010

Blades of Passion said:
If the skaters' performances had been properly judged in the Men's event, I believe Evan also should have been off the podium. The PCS marks he got were way off base and it's all politics.

And yet Johnny himself said Evan deserved to be on the podium......:think:

Johnny Weir article...o dear o dear

i love to skate

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