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Thread: Skating & Gymnastics (Offshoot from Yuna/Orser coaching breakup thread)

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    Skating & Gymnastics (Offshoot from Yuna/Orser coaching breakup thread)

    To help keep the Yuna/Orser thread more on topic, here are a bunch of OT posts from that thread (but relevant to this one )

    Quote Originally Posted by Olympia View Post
    Do you mean Lilia P., who won the Gymnastics all-around gold? She certainly sparkled. I felt the same reaction to Nastia Liukin in 2008, and Gutsu in--now I can't remember; it had to be 1992, the last year of the Unified Team. You're right. Achievements like that stand out no matter where the athlete comes from. I'm old enough to remember Nadia Comaneci in the Montreal Games, and I was ready to swear that the kid could defy gravity.

    Skating's the same. Competitors like Gordeyeva/Grinkov, John Curry, Torvill/Dean, and others made us all citizens of the world as we watched. It's what we share as skate fans. Of course one feels patriotic about a champion from one's own country, but there's room for "dual citizenship" in the heart of every fan.
    Quote Originally Posted by SkatingAnalyst View Post
    You are right.
    Nadia is another outstanding athlete who was globally admired regardless of nationality.
    There was no video recorder available...I couldn't record her performance.
    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    she could have won the beam as well...not to arguement anyway
    She got injured after Olympics until she retired, it is not like she lost steam
    She and Moceanu were my favs of these Olympics.
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    argument....
    Nobody was going to beat Shannon on the balance beam in '96. She was the best and steady as a rock.

    But I remember you know more about this than I do - so I will use the old "patriotism" excuse.

    Shannon is still the best gymnast ever produced by the USA.

    http://shannonmiller.com/shannon-miller.php

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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    No argument because it would be like Lysacek vs Plushenko kind of thing But yes, she was a GREAT gymnast and actually I would give her the gold in 92 instead of Gutsu

    sorry for offtopic,
    Go Yuna!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    She was my favorite in the 90's! Elegant being, loved her face too.
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I respect your knowledge - but Marylou and most girls from Shannon's era can't touch this:

    "During her career, Shannon has won an astounding 59 International and 49 National medals and over half have been Gold, culminating with two Gold Medals at the 1996 Olympic Games in Atlanta. Shannon led the "Magnificent 7" to Team Gold and, for the first time for any American gymnast, Gold on the balance beam."

    Not bad, eh?
    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Cant compare different decades Miller was one of the best but mid 90s produced lot of top athetes wordwide. Thats all I said, I dont know if she was the best in her era but she was one of the best for sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    I remember a Washington Post story in '92 about Shannon's vault during the all-around. The writer said something like "if it had been Nadia, it would have been an 11." I'm no gymnast, but it certainly looked flawless to me.

    ETA: I can't remember the score but it was not a 10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Here it is.......wow, staggeringly good!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1t_qNxHSAoc
    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    Back in that seasons Miller's vault , full twist yurchenko was performed by almost all girls, judges were seeing this like an often routine, one would put a 9.95 another perfect 10, so thats why her score came out, but yeah the first one, it deserved a ten.
    Someone would kick us of this thread very soon...
    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Like Michelle, Shannon went to school after she retired and has a master's degree.
    I don't think Marylou finished high school.
    So yes, Marylou was an outstanding gymnast and like Tara did as much as she could to cash in on her OGM.

    Looking at their careers - Marylou is much like Tara.

    Shannon, with longevity and so many more medals and World titles is similar to Michelle.

    Picking Marylou as the best feels like claiming Tara is the best. But the records don't support that.

    Atleast when Tara won her OGM she beat the best. Marylou won in a year with a boycott. Over half of the world's best gymnasts did not compete. Almost an asterisk situation, no?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tonichelle View Post
    well... I know who MaryLou is. I can't tell you a thing about Shannon (never heard of her till now, that I'm aware of). I'm not even an "average joe" watcher of gymnastics. It doesn't hold my interest. But even I know who MaryLou is....




    continue below
    Last edited by R.D.; 09-03-2010 at 04:58 PM.

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    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    now i dont have anything more to saywe covered two decades

    but thank you for your job

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    Once seniorita admitted than Shannon is #1 it pretty much ended my thoughts on this.

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    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Well, I really love Nastia Liukin's gymnastics. When she's on she makes it look effortless with her elasticity and grace - much harder to do in gymnastics than even in figure skating, I would guess. I suppose it depends on whether she sticks around if she can match Shannon Miller's medal haul.

    But Shannon Miller really is the Michelle Kwan of gymnastic, isn't she? The best gymnast never to win the top prize. (Olympic all around.) Who knows if coming just short in '92 was what motivated her to keep going. Maybe since Nastia already has that prize she won't muster the will ala Tara and Sarah. I mean, I can't blame them, I'd be the same.

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    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    No i didnt, just said No1 in Usa
    Ok seriously she was great but for me she looked robotic, some other gymnasts were warmer in my eyes. I said also from the dream team I liked Moceanu the most!She is defenetely in my top ten list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    But Shannon Miller really is the Michelle Kwan of gymnastic, isn't she? The best gymnast never to win the top prize. (Olympic all around.) Who knows if coming just short in '92 was what motivated her to keep going. Maybe since Nastia already has that prize she won't muster the will ala Tara and Sarah. I mean, I can't blame them, I'd be the same.
    I would put Svetlana Khorkina in that category too. She stuck around forever winning hoards of medals but never the most coveted prize.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiSkates View Post
    I would put Svetlana Khorkina in that category too. She stuck around forever winning hoards of medals but never the most coveted prize.
    Oh yes, definitely. Actually, now I think on it Khorkina's gymnastics was somewhat similar to Nastia's...
    But I guess I was thinking about the Americans ... maybe we can say Shannon is the Michelle of gymnastics and Svetlana is the Irina of gymnastics.

    Aw man, I miss the days of all four of them...

    Anyway, to seniorita: My favorite of the magnificent 7 was Awesome Dawsome. (Dominique Dawes) Fab and charismatic. And THREE Olympics! Maybe the most underappreciated American skater ever, although insiders do appreciate her.
    Moceanu was amazing but a little too cutesy for me in '96. I liked her better in later years like when she won the Goodwill Games.

    I know Shannon wasn't bubbly like Mary Lou or Shawn Johnson but I sort of like her the way she was. She was just a quiet workhorse.
    Last edited by Layfan; 09-03-2010 at 08:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    Oh yes, definitely. Actually, now I think on it Khorkina's gymnastics was somewhat similar to Nastia's...
    But I guess I was thinking about the Americans ... maybe we can say Shannon is the Michelle of gymnastics and Svetlana is the Irina of gymnastics.

    Aw man, I miss the days of all four of them...

    Anyway, to seniorita: My favorite of the magnificent 7 was Awesome Dawsome. (Dominique Dawes) Fab and charismatic. And THREE Olympics! Maybe the most underappreciated American skater ever, although insiders do appreciate her.
    Moceanu was amazing but a little too cutesy for me in '96. I liked her better in later years like when she won the Goodwill Games.

    I know Shannon wasn't bubbly like Mary Lou or Shawn Johnson but I sort of like her the way she was. She was just a quiet workhorse.
    I enjoyed your post layfan!

    I appreciated Shannon on several levels. She was the opposite of the bubbly and cutesy Moceanu - but so much more reliable and a better performer under pressure.
    I think looking back - Shannon has the Team Gold medal, and in gymnastics it is a pretty big deal. I still remember the tears from the Russian girls and the disappointment on the faces of the Russian coaches when they knew they had not won.

    I agree with you about Dominique "Awesome Dawsome". She might have been the most talented one of the group but was beset not only by injuries but health problems. When her chronic wrist injury wasn't acting up or her tendonitis she could be sensational.

    It was one of my favorites, Amy Chow, the piano playing Stanford girl who really came through for USA that night with two of her best ever routines.
    Her is a memory from '96 - Amy's wonderful uneven bars routine: check out the dismount!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDNyl...ext=1&index=19

    Some fans get too nervous to watch their favorite skater - I get like that watching the balance beam. Shannon was the only one who never made me nervous. What a rock she was on the balance beam.

    I remember the headfirst fall into the balance beam Amy Chow took at the '96 US team trials. She had to get back up and finish the routine or she was not going to make the team.
    I saw a picture of her a week later in People Magazine and what a shiner she had - but still managed to look awfully cute

    Here is the fall and Amy showing the heart of a champion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ln7rRjvAA

    My memories of our girls from '96 are as good as any I have from skating. That night in Atlanta was one of the best competitions in any sport I ever recall seeing.
    Last edited by janetfan; 09-03-2010 at 09:58 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I remember the headfirst fall into the balance beam Amy Chow took at the '96 US team trials. She had to get back up and finish the routine or she was not going to make the team.
    I saw a picture of her a week later in People Magazine and what a shiner she had - but still managed to look awfully cute

    Here is the fall and Amy showing the heart of a champion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ln7rRjvAA

    My memories of our girls from '96 are as good as any I have from skating. That night in Atlanta was one of the best competitions in any sport I ever recall seeing.
    I'm glad I re-watched that. I remembered her hiting her head on the beam and continuing, but I had forgotten that it was at the start of her routine and she had to do the entire thing after that horrible fall ...and some people say its not a real sport In my opinion gymnasts are some of the toughest athletes in the world.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    I enjoyed your post layfan!

    I appreciated Shannon on several levels. She was the opposite of the bubbly and cutesy Moceanu - but so much more reliable and a better performer under pressure.
    I think looking back - Shannon has the Team Gold medal, and in gymnastics it is a pretty big deal. I still remember the tears from the Russian girls and the disappointment on the faces of the Russian coaches when they knew they had not won.

    I agree with you about Dominique "Awesome Dawsome". She might have been the most talented one of the group but was beset not only by injuries but health problems. When her chronic wrist injury wasn't acting up or her tendonitis she could be sensational.

    It was one of my favorites, Amy Chow, the piano playing Stanford girl who really came through for USA that night with two of her best ever routines.
    Her is a memory from '96 - Amy's wonderful uneven bars routine: check out the dismount!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDNyl...ext=1&index=19

    Some fans get too nervous to watch their favorite skater - I get like that watching the balance beam. Shannon was the only one who never made me nervous. What a rock she was on the balance beam.

    I remember the headfirst fall into the balance beam Amy Chow took at the '96 US team trials. She had to get back up and finish the routine or she was not going to make the team.
    I saw a picture of her a week later in People Magazine and what a shiner she had - but still managed to look awfully cute

    Here is the fall and Amy showing the heart of a champion.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3ln7rRjvAA

    My memories of our girls from '96 are as good as any I have from skating. That night in Atlanta was one of the best competitions in any sport I ever recall seeing.
    Yes, Amy Chow was another favorite of mine from that team. She was cute and also elegant. I think she was another fan-fave in general.

    Remember Moceanu also had that horrible fall from the beam during the Olympics? She smashed her head right into the beam and then just kept right on going. It was during the event finals or the all-around, I can't remember. I remember Kerri Strug was watching from the stands because she was injured and her hands flew up to her face in horror. I remember watching with my dad. And during the replay, my dad said, of Moceanu, "no reaction! She's a robot!" I mean, he meant it in a good way... just how superhuman these girls can be.

    That competition was definitely one of the most memorable ever. Who doesn't love the maginificent 7? But somehow, Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson seemed happier, more at peace than some of those girls. I wondered watching the 2008 Olympics if gymnastics culture had changed somewhat in the U.S.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    Yes, Amy Chow was another favorite of mine from that team. She was cute and also elegant. I think she was another fan-fave in general.

    Remember Moceanu also had that horrible fall from the beam during the Olympics? She smashed her head right into the beam and then just kept right on going. It was during the event finals or the all-around, I can't remember. I remember Kerri Strug was watching from the stands because she was injured and her hands flew up to her face in horror. I remember watching with my dad. And during the replay, my dad said, of Moceanu, "no reaction! She's a robot!" I mean, he meant it in a good way... just how superhuman these girls can be.

    That competition was definitely one of the most memorable ever. Who doesn't love the maginificent 7? But somehow, Nastia Liukin and Shawn Johnson seemed happier, more at peace than some of those girls. I wondered watching the 2008 Olympics if gymnastics culture had changed somewhat in the U.S.
    Shawn seems to always have a smile on her face. But after China won the Team title and Shawn did not win Golds on the individuals I definitely saw the pressure mounting on her. The Gold she finaly won on the beam definitely seemed to take the weight of the world off her shoulders.

    But Shawn and Nastia do not have what Shannon and the Mag 7 have - the team OGM. Skating fans might relate this to the WTT in skating but nothing could be further from the truth.

    Bela said before the '96 games the top priority for USA was the team Gold. It was that way in China too. The individual medals are important and the all-around title is great - but at the Olympics I think the biggest emphasis is on winning the team titles.

    It was also a never in too much doubt that either Shawn or Nastia would win the all-around in China.

    If not for injury problems and a couple of subpar routines from our backups USA would have won the Team Gold in '08. But it is not so easy, China had a great team and that's the way it goes sometimes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Shawn seems to always have a smile on her face. But after China won the Team title and Shawn did not win Golds on the individuals I definitely saw the pressure mounting on her. The Gold she finaly won on the beam definitely seemed to take the weight of the world off her shoulders.

    But Shawn and Nastia do not have what Shannon and the Mag 7 have - the team OGM. Skating fans might relate this to the WTT in skating but nothing could be further from the truth.

    Bela said before the '96 games the top priority for USA was the team Gold. It was that way in China too. The individual medals are important and the all-around title is great - but at the Olympics I think the biggest emphasis is on winning the team titles.

    It was also a never in too much doubt that either Shawn or Nastia would win the all-around in China.

    If not for injury problems and a couple of subpar routines from our backups USA would have won the Team Gold in '08. But it is not so easy, China had a great team and that's the way it goes sometimes.
    That's true. The team gold is huge. It's great the American girls have grabbed the last two all around gold but I do think that 96was seen as a sort of peak that American women's gymnastics hasn't quite been able to match, although almost.

    I suppose it doesn't matter all that much that Shannon never won the all around gold. But it doesn't matter much that Michelle Kwan never won Olympic gold, either. Both are seen as the best of their eras because of their overall records. And yes, because Shannon was a leader on the team that won gold.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Layfan View Post
    That's true. The team gold is huge. It's great the American girls have grabbed the last two all around gold but I do think that 96was seen as a sort of peak that American women's gymnastics hasn't quite been able to match, although almost.

    I suppose it doesn't matter all that much that Shannon never won the all around gold. But it doesn't matter much that Michelle Kwan never won Olympic gold, either. Both are seen as the best of their eras because of their overall records. And yes, because Shannon was a leader on the team that won gold.
    There is really no doubt that of American Lady gymnasts only Shannon and the Magnificent 7 have won the biggest prize in Olympic gymnastics - the Team Gold.

    There was deservedly some fuss over Nastia and Shawn but it didn't compare to the acclaim the Mag 7 received after they won the Team Gold in '96.

    There were commercials, the wheaties box, TV appearances, National tours, USA vs the World TV events, even a famous SNL skit. They became an "industry" the likes of which American gymnastics had never experienced.

    Their win did alot to raise the profile of gymnastics in USA. Like you said, they also raised our level expectations by getting over the hump and becoming the first non- eastern European team to win the Olympic team championship.

    I will give MaryLou a nod as well. The first USA lady to win the all-around was also quite an achievement and Marlou had the right personality to make the most of it.
    She also undoubtably inspired the generation of American girls who followed her.

    In the Olympic cycle that followed Barcelona if Shannon wasn't the best gymnast in the world she was certainly the most dominant. She won and won and won some more including back to back Worlds all-round titles. No american Lady ever did that, Marylou never did it once in a non-boycotted worlds or Olympics.

    Looking back I think I was a fan of the whole group - even if Shannon, Dominique and Amy were my favorites.

    ETA: I remember Olga Korbut charming the world with her routines. Here is her floor exercise:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjJOBsLQh4w&NR=1

    She was the first to really get me interested in gymnastics.
    Maybe seniorita or some others will add a few clips of favorite performances over the years.
    Last edited by janetfan; 09-04-2010 at 12:03 PM.

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