U.S. Ladies Prediction & Speculation Thread
- Thread starter R.D.
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Wow, thanks Nadine for the clip. I have never seen her before. That lutz is a beauty. And the loop, too. Just like Mao's. I can't believe her marks after the SP, I thought the technical should be a bit higher. That shows how arbitrary 6.0 system is. 
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Looks like she's still skating, even as late as 2008.
. Looks like she's still skating, even as late as 2008.
Yup. I remember her all right. She was one of those "unknown" skaters who made an impression back in the day.
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- Sep 14, 2008
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One doesn't have to admit Mao's 3Axel is prettier at all. It would be prettier if she jumped higher and farther; her 3Axel doesn't come anywhere near Midori's.
It's funny in all the greatest skaters I can usually see moves copied from them by the next generation(s). For example, Yebin Mok & Alissa Czisny definitely remind me of Oksana Baiul, and it's not just the music.
Yet, when it comes to Tonya Harding, I have yet to find a skater that reminds me of her when it comes to her powerful fast correct technique when it comes to the jumps. Yes, I may see flashes of her physically when I watch Rachael Flatt, or see her speed & spinning ability in Ashley Wagner, but when it comes to the jumps no one. This is what I find sad. Then again I have a theory about that, the USFSA is so desperate to remove her from all conscious thinking, it does everything in its power to make people believe she never existed. Even to the point of ratifying Kimmie Meissner's obviously 1/2 underrotated 3A back in 2005, which comes nowhere close to the real thing. Yes, Tonya did bad, and she's banned for life, et al. But her achievements when she skated are incomparable and have stood the test of time, as it should be. I haven't forgotten nor will I; I lived in the era of Tonya Harding and am proud of it. No, she was no angel, nor was she demure, balletic, shy, Asian, etc. She was the complete opposite, which unfortunately is why this great skater will probably never again be emulated on the ice. She was truly one-of-a-kind, both the good & the bad.
I just wish she would drop whatever the heck she's doing (boxing last I heard) and start coaching some American ladies.
Yet, when it comes to Tonya Harding, I have yet to find a skater that reminds me of her when it comes to her powerful fast correct technique when it comes to the jumps. Yes, I may see flashes of her physically when I watch Rachael Flatt, or see her speed & spinning ability in Ashley Wagner, but when it comes to the jumps no one. This is what I find sad. Then again I have a theory about that, the USFSA is so desperate to remove her from all conscious thinking, it does everything in its power to make people believe she never existed. Even to the point of ratifying Kimmie Meissner's obviously 1/2 underrotated 3A back in 2005, which comes nowhere close to the real thing. Yes, Tonya did bad, and she's banned for life, et al. But her achievements when she skated are incomparable and have stood the test of time, as it should be. I haven't forgotten nor will I; I lived in the era of Tonya Harding and am proud of it. No, she was no angel, nor was she demure, balletic, shy, Asian, etc. She was the complete opposite, which unfortunately is why this great skater will probably never again be emulated on the ice. She was truly one-of-a-kind, both the good & the bad.
I just wish she would drop whatever the heck she's doing (boxing last I heard) and start coaching some American ladies.
Lol, yes, that's true. In fact I recall an excellent discussion on GS about this very thing some time ago. Still, I have a great respect for those that teach (my late father was one), to be able to pass onto the next generation all your knowledge and love of whatever it is that you are teaching. And not all have the patience or aptitude for this, but one can dream...
p.s. Red Dog, I hope you did not take offense of my mentioning Kimmie Meissner's triple axel, I know she is a favorite of yours, and rightfully so. She's always been a phenomenal young lady. I wish her the best in whatever she chooses to do in the future.^)
In fact I recall an excellent discussion on GS about this very thing some time ago. Still, I have a great respect for those that teach (my late father was one), to be able to pass onto the next generation all your knowledge and love of whatever it is that you are teaching. And not all have the patience or aptitude for this, but one can dream...p.s. Red Dog, I hope you did not take offense of my mentioning Kimmie Meissner's triple axel, I know she is a favorite of yours, and rightfully so. She's always been a phenomenal young lady. I wish her the best in whatever she chooses to do in the future.
^)Lol, yes, that's true.
Sure, why not. It is an acquired skill, though. Especially if you know the subject at such a high level that it takes a huge step back (down if you will) to be able to explain it to a "lay audience". And on that topic, it's quite a good skill to have. Still working on it myself
p.s. Red Dog, I hope you did not take offense of my mentioning Kimmie Meissner's triple axel, I know she is a favorite of yours, and rightfully so. She's always been a phenomenal young lady. I wish her the best in whatever she chooses to do in the future.
Well, first of all- guys, please, I changed my username for a reason. I no longer choose to go by (or wish to be called) Red Dog... I'm more comfortable with RD. Just like BP, or HP (formerly Hewlett-Packard). It's a bit more formal
Now, to the rest of your post. I think most who have known me for years here are well aware that I don't have fave(s). I never did...I thought you knew that already. You don't see me favoring any skaters in my commentary. I'm the equal opportunity skeptic.
And, I don't get offended by anything except personal insults, so you're good.Each skater brings something different to the table, and I like that. It would be boring if everyone was the same.
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Yes, I know all about teaching, as I said my late father was a certified teacher (graduated from the University of WA), et al, and I myself taught young children & mothers when I was a PCV in the Peace Corps many years ago. All teachers have my utmost deepest respect, be it coaches, mothers, instructors, school teachers, etc. We are all teachers in one way or another, even whether unconsciously, like role models.
And I am sorry about calling you Red Dog, I did wonder why you changed it to R.D., but again my apologies and it will not happen again. Btw, my real name is Nadine, no nickname, just Nadine. ^)
Regards your favs, I did not mean anything by it, and, no, I did not know you did not have any preferences, et al. In fact I honestly haven't kept up with GS throughout the years, sometimes I post a lot (especially during the season, most notably during the Olympic season, lol), and other times not at all. I just leave, particularly during the off-season. Also, I don't read every thread, just the ones I'm interested in, and I never look into any of the other forums but this one and sometimes the competition forum. But I do recognize usernames, like yours, and others that have been here a long time.
Lol, now I'm just rambling, anxious for the season to start. Waiting to renew my IN membership. Waiting for some skating to finally begin! (8^) Which means I need to take a break from GS and wait for October to finally arrive, at least my love of skating has returned.
And I am sorry about calling you Red Dog, I did wonder why you changed it to R.D., but again my apologies and it will not happen again.
Btw, my real name is Nadine, no nickname, just Nadine. ^)Regards your favs, I did not mean anything by it, and, no, I did not know you did not have any preferences, et al. In fact I honestly haven't kept up with GS throughout the years, sometimes I post a lot (especially during the season, most notably during the Olympic season, lol), and other times not at all. I just leave, particularly during the off-season. Also, I don't read every thread, just the ones I'm interested in, and I never look into any of the other forums but this one and sometimes the competition forum. But I do recognize usernames, like yours, and others that have been here a long time.
Lol, now I'm just rambling, anxious for the season to start. Waiting to renew my IN membership. Waiting for some skating to finally begin! (8^) Which means I need to take a break from GS and wait for October to finally arrive, at least my love of skating has returned.
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2005
I just wish she would drop whatever the heck she's doing (boxing last I heard) and start coaching some American ladies.
She can't based on the current US Figure Skating Rules officially coach anyone. She would not be able to renew her membership as she is banned for life from US Figure Skating for her part in the Nancy drama. That means she wouldn't be able to teach on club ice time, prepare skaters for club ice shows, go to test sessions with her skaters or stand with them at competitions. This would make things a little tough...
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Now, let's get back to the American ladies once again.
Can any of the current USA Ladies skate at this level :think:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FFEcjxCQo8&NR=1
Her talent is easy to recognize and who is to say how much better she will get?
I liked this comment from Tara:
"She looks like she's having so much fun, it makes you want to go skate." :yes:
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- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
There is an old joke.................
What is the difference between a Yankee Stadium hotdog and a Fenway Park hotdog?
You can have a Yankee Stadium hotdog in November.
Yes, Mirai has grace, beauty, elegance, athleticism. She has all those qualities.
Can any USA Lady skate at this level? The following day, apparently not. :disapp:
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I think you miss the point. Just being 'reliable" is never going to be enough to compete against skaters like Yuna and Mao.
There has to be a talent level, a spark that the judges recognize and like. There has to be more than jumps and there has to be more than a pretty spin.
Speed, and a personality that projects off the ice is necessary too. I see all this in Mirai - just as I find it lacking in the others. Perhaps Ashley has the potential and hope she will have a good season.
Consistency matters too - but consistency with skills and talent that are several levels under the world's best skaters becomes a non-factor at the biggest international competitions.
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Nadine, I hope you post a lot this season! You have many great insights and a wonderful way of expressing them.
As for Tonya, I remember right before the truth about Nancy's attack came out, maybe the night of 1994 Nationals, when I was so impressed with her skating. She had the power and moxie of a truck driver, but she also finished all her moves and understood the music. I was a big Nancy fan, but I felt (ironically, as it turns out) that we were in good hands with Tonya representing us at the Olympics. One of the saddest aspects of that whole incident to me is that Tonya was a genuinely phenomenally talented skater, and all that was lost because she couldn't trust to her talent to get her onto the Olympic team. As I recall that year, there were only two spots (because Nancy had had the worst skate of her life in the previous Worlds and came in something like fifth), and it was the year that Michelle was first making her mark, so Tonya allowed her fears to overcome her, and she listened to the devils whispering in her ear.
I'm trying to think of power skaters like Tonya who also have grace. Tonya was in her way the equivalent of Elvis Stojko among the men: the kind of athlete who doesn't usually get interested in skating at all. It's too bad that skating can't attract one or two of those every few years or so. Rachael doesn't strike me that way--she lacks that element of danger. I don't mean that the way it sounds! I mean that Tonya's skating had a fierceness to it that you don't usually see in a lady, and you don't even see often in a man. It's really a shame that the door had to be closed on this, all because of the horrible crime Tonya's "supporters" committed.
As for Tonya, I remember right before the truth about Nancy's attack came out, maybe the night of 1994 Nationals, when I was so impressed with her skating. She had the power and moxie of a truck driver, but she also finished all her moves and understood the music. I was a big Nancy fan, but I felt (ironically, as it turns out) that we were in good hands with Tonya representing us at the Olympics. One of the saddest aspects of that whole incident to me is that Tonya was a genuinely phenomenally talented skater, and all that was lost because she couldn't trust to her talent to get her onto the Olympic team. As I recall that year, there were only two spots (because Nancy had had the worst skate of her life in the previous Worlds and came in something like fifth), and it was the year that Michelle was first making her mark, so Tonya allowed her fears to overcome her, and she listened to the devils whispering in her ear.
I'm trying to think of power skaters like Tonya who also have grace. Tonya was in her way the equivalent of Elvis Stojko among the men: the kind of athlete who doesn't usually get interested in skating at all. It's too bad that skating can't attract one or two of those every few years or so. Rachael doesn't strike me that way--she lacks that element of danger. I don't mean that the way it sounds! I mean that Tonya's skating had a fierceness to it that you don't usually see in a lady, and you don't even see often in a man. It's really a shame that the door had to be closed on this, all because of the horrible crime Tonya's "supporters" committed.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
It is a common belief that Tonya knew about the attack ahead of time, or even ordered it. I have never encountered evidence to this effect.
I would say this is more accurate.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I agree it was a "horrible crime" and although I have always believed in second chances in this case I believe Tonya's punishment was not only fair but completely justified.
I can't imagine any parent who really cared about their child taking them to Tonya for lessons.
For me it would be out of the question.
I am reminded of Michelle's message to Frank Carroll upon his induction into the Hall of Fame. Michelle thanked Frank for teaching her important lessons that went beyond skating.
Not every skater is going to have a Frank Carroll for a coach but we should never underestimate how much influence a coach can have on a young skater. In the case of Tonya I think most responsible parents would be better setting the bar higher.
I can't imagine any parent who really cared about their child taking them to Tonya for lessons.
For me it would be out of the question.
I am reminded of Michelle's message to Frank Carroll upon his induction into the Hall of Fame. Michelle thanked Frank for teaching her important lessons that went beyond skating.
Not every skater is going to have a Frank Carroll for a coach but we should never underestimate how much influence a coach can have on a young skater. In the case of Tonya I think most responsible parents would be better setting the bar higher.
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Oh, goodness, yes! If you're a dedicated skater, you spend more time with your coach than you do with your teachers--and maybe even with your family. A coach has to be like Caesar's wife, above reproach.
Often, writers tend to refer to the "whack" as just a dramatic incident, but that's only because Nancy recovered. Just by sheer luck and an inch or less, she escaped dreadful permanent injury and the probability of grueling reconstructive surgery and rehabilitation. I still remember how frightening it was to hear of when it was first reported. This is the injury gangsters used to inflict on people they wanted to take out of commission. And it was done to a girl in her twenties. I remember how incensed I was that Saturday Night Live made a skit out of Nancy's howls of agony, which happened to be recorded for posterity. I guess the comedians felt that she didn't meet their standards of behavior during an assault.
I like to hope that Harding had no knowledge of the assault beforehand. But I certainly wouldn't bet my child's well-being on it, even if the rules of skating allowed her back into the fold.
Often, writers tend to refer to the "whack" as just a dramatic incident, but that's only because Nancy recovered. Just by sheer luck and an inch or less, she escaped dreadful permanent injury and the probability of grueling reconstructive surgery and rehabilitation. I still remember how frightening it was to hear of when it was first reported. This is the injury gangsters used to inflict on people they wanted to take out of commission. And it was done to a girl in her twenties. I remember how incensed I was that Saturday Night Live made a skit out of Nancy's howls of agony, which happened to be recorded for posterity. I guess the comedians felt that she didn't meet their standards of behavior during an assault.
I like to hope that Harding had no knowledge of the assault beforehand. But I certainly wouldn't bet my child's well-being on it, even if the rules of skating allowed her back into the fold.
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- May 15, 2009
Here is vintage Tonya. It's about her beef with President Obama.
I would not let this woman train my dog let alone teach my kid how to skate. :sheesh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_JxiMP2en4&feature=fvst
I would not let this woman train my dog let alone teach my kid how to skate. :sheesh:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_JxiMP2en4&feature=fvst
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