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Thread: Ladies

  1. #121
    Tanguera feraina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meli_Huber View Post
    2 girls from USA, 2 from Russia and 2 from Japan.

    Of course, Shelepen is the top favourit here ... but we have to wait with US girls will skate in the end.
    The Japanese girls can be strong, but only can. So we have to look, because these are juniors, and you never now what will happen. The second Russian girl AFANASYEVA is also a real talented skater and can do really fine!
    Maybe it works in Zijun's favor that she's in the last JGP. USFSA has already assigned and re-assigned their top juniors: Yasmin Siraj, Kristiene Gong, and Christina Gao. The remaining entrants, whether re-assignments for girls who've already competed, or new assignments, will likely not be as strong in that last JGP. Something similar with the Russians. Liza Tuktamisheva and Adelina Sotnikova have already been re-assigned to earlier JGP's. Polina Shelepen is obviously Zijun's strongest competitor in JGP Czech. Russia of course has a ton of other really talented skaters, but all of them are kinda unknowns at this point, both in terms of their int'l reputation/experience, and also their own consistency.
    Also, maybe with a bronze under her belt, Zijun would be given (justly) more generous PCS at her next JGP.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    I don't know what justified Christina's much higher PCS than Zijun's. I didn't really see it in their skating. I would've given them comparable PCS, maybe even a slight edge to Zijun. Zijun had better posture, line, flow, and flexibility (and better spins, too). The placements are fine, especially considering their short programs, but I have to disagree with the huge gap in their FS scores. Hopefully, if Zijun keeps on skating clean programs and placing well in her competitions, then she'll build her own reputation in judges' minds.
    I think Christina's programs are probably more CoP friendly than Zijun's considering Wilson is her choreographer. Further, I think had Christina not been totally clean in the FS her PCS would have been lower, and as for Zijun though she is more graceful than Christina her skating and overall appearance on the ice is more juniorish, her programs have less in terms of choreo and transitions. The 47+ for PCS Zijun got in the FS is pretty high for a junior if you look at the scores from last season, and where she is so young, it's that much more impressive.

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  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    I think Christina's programs are probably more CoP friendly than Zijun's considering Wilson is her choreographer. Further, I think had Christina not been totally clean in the FS her PCS would have been lower, and as for Zijun though she is more graceful than Christina her skating and overall appearance on the ice is more juniorish, her programs have less in terms of choreo and transitions. The 47+ for PCS Zijun got in the FS is pretty high for a junior if you look at the scores from last season, and where she is so young, it's that much more impressive.
    I agree that Zijun's choreo and intrepretation look junior-ish, but I have to say that for a 16-yr-old, Christina's programs also looked rather junior-ish. David Wilson is *really* good at putting together CoP-friendly programs, though. So maybe it's just a matter of her putting down more mileage on this program.

  5. #125
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    I think that Christina's long program highlights a lot of her weakness, particularly when it comes down to posture and line. Especially during the step sequence. I don't know what words to use, but it seems her upper body is rather floppy and awkward and she doesn't know what to do with her arms and hands, and it all comes across as flailing. I don't think she's particularly musical either - the choreography is not bad (but not good either) and she does what she's supposed to do, but without any feeling or meaning whatsoever. Which isn't to say she hasn't improved (she has), but she really, really could use ballet lessons.

    I think that it was highlighted even more so since Sotnikova skated right after her, and doesn't have these weakness. Adelina has better skating skills and flow as well.

    I do think Gao's PCS were high for what she did, and I would have them closer to Li's than to Sotnikova's. However, the marks were high overall in this competition.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I think that Christina's long program highlights a lot of her weakness, particularly when it comes down to posture and line. Especially during the step sequence. I don't know what words to use, but it seems her upper body is rather floppy and awkward and she doesn't know what to do with her arms and hands, and it all comes across as flailing. I don't think she's particularly musical either - the choreography is not bad (but not good either) and she does what she's supposed to do, but without any feeling or meaning whatsoever. Which isn't to say she hasn't improved (she has), but she really, really could use ballet lessons.

    I think that it was highlighted even more so since Sotnikova skated right after her, and doesn't have these weakness. Adelina has better skating skills and flow as well.

    I do think Gao's PCS were high for what she did, and I would have them closer to Li's than to Sotnikova's. However, the marks were high overall in this competition.
    Well, Christina's TES was higher than Zijun, and TES is pretty cut and dry, so that accounts for some of her score being higher.

  7. #127
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    I've never debated Gao being above Li. I'm talking specifically about PCS.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I've never debated Gao being above Li. I'm talking specifically about PCS.
    The difference in PCS was like 4 points, so not a huge difference.

  9. #129
    Tanguera feraina's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    The difference in PCS was like 4 points, so not a huge difference.
    Well, I don't know what you consider "huge." There was only 1 point separating Gao & Sotnikova, which makes 4 between Gao and Li seem like a lot to me. I'd have something 3.5 between Gao and Sotnikova, and 1.5 between Li and Gao. That'd fairer, I think, for Sotnikova, who was really stunning in her presentation.

    About the TES score, I'm surprised that Li's last 3S was downgraded. I'd rather have downgraded her last 3F. It looked double-footed. The 3S actually looked a bit over-rotated. But then the feed was so bad...

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    Well, I don't know what you consider "huge." There was only 1 point separating Gao & Sotnikova, which makes 4 between Gao and Li seem like a lot to me. I'd have something 3.5 between Gao and Sotnikova, and 1.5 between Li and Gao. That'd fairer, I think, for Sotnikova, who was really stunning in her presentation.
    I totally agree with the above.

  11. #131
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by feraina View Post
    I don't know what justified Christina's much higher PCS than Zijun's.
    Zijun Li did crossovers between almost all her elements. There was very little transitional turns when creating speed/change of direction (f/b or cw/ccw) such as Adelina or Christina had.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by mskater93 View Post
    Zijun Li did crossovers between almost all her elements. There was very little transitional turns when creating speed/change of direction (f/b or cw/ccw) such as Adelina or Christina had.
    I just have to respectfully disagree!

    I just re-watched Zijun and Christina's LP's after your comment. I don't see any two elements from Zijun that are not separated by some transitions. If you see such an example (not including just before and after the step sequence, for obvious reasons), please point it out. Also, she had interesting variations, with transitions, into almost all her jumps, not just "crossovers" as you put it. The only exception is maybe the last 3S.

    In contrast, Christina did do a lot of crossovers between her elements, especially into jumps. She had very standard entrances into her 3F and 3Z combos, and then later on into her 2A, and 3T.

    Maybe you just didn't notice Zijun's transitions because she had such flow and smoothness and sense of ease about her that you missed them.

  13. #133
    At the rink. Again. mskater93's Avatar
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    feraina, I skate myself and tend to notice transitions very closely for ideas for my own programs from levels above my own, I know what I saw on grainy video.

  14. #134
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    Just watched Zijun's videos, I'm liking her style a lot!

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    I totally agree with the above.
    Totally agree. PCS too high for Gao. Why? Not sure, but I hope we will start seeing a change in PCS marks as the years progress. This is the weakest part of the system, and it makes it really much less exciting for spectators to watch when actual presentation differences of the skaters (how they did artistically in each particular program on a given night) are not reflected mathematically in the same proportion, relative to others on that night. Bummer.

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