Adelina Sotnikova - flutz or not?

koheikun90 · Sep 19, 2010

Adelina Sotnikova made an astounding debut on the JGP in Austria. Great speed, huge jumps and mature presentation for her age but to me, she clearly takes off on an inside edge on her lutz yet did not get a "WEED". In fact, she got positive GOE's for it.

Can someone explain this to me?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_jlgZc0fwI&feature=related

Also, I was very impressed with Christina Gao. In my opinion, she is on track to be the next great American skater. She was given a "WEED" for her lutz, which I agree with but Sotnikova's lutz is just as much as a flutz as Gao's.

Help! I'm so confused. If this is the case, then this is another clear case of unfair judging.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEVXvJ0Q3fY

bekalc · Sep 19, 2010

Christina's flutz is clear from a mile away, she doesn't seen to spend a single second on the outside edge.

Adelina's is less clear and you frankly need instant reply to do so. They are only suppose to call obvious edge errors.

oleada · Sep 19, 2010

I think it was hard to tell if there is an Adelina flutzed from the blurry feed. However, Christina's flutz was pretty clear; grainy feed and all.

ETA: Actually upon rewatching, I think she switches back to the outside edge shortly before take-off.

seniorita · Sep 19, 2010

maybe it is more clear here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-fFFrrIFpY

i love this exhibition!

ks777 · Sep 19, 2010

I can't tell if she flutz or not but she is so talented! She might just be the one to win the next olympics! She seems to have solid basics and beautiful lines.

FlattFan · Sep 20, 2010

From the exhibition, she definitely flutzed. 0:28, it was an obvious inside edge as her toe picked.
When they start to call on her flutz, she'll lose 2 points or so per flutz and forfeit all +GOE. So combining the SP, and LP, it would be about 10 points on the table.

Look at Mao, she was so consistent with her flutz, and now that jump is gone all together. This girl could go down that path, and become a non factor. Whoever's coaching her now should fix this ASAP.

Meli_Huber · Sep 20, 2010

She had issues with wrong edges last season too. But I believed it was mostly with the Flip. When you look at her LP the edges are not clear. But I think we must wait until we get better videos with a clear replay of the jumps!

ayayukiituka · Sep 20, 2010

Meli_Huber said:
She had issues with wrong edges last season too. But I believed it was mostly with the Flip. When you look at her LP the edges are not clear. But I think we must wait until we get better videos with a clear replay of the jumps!

it's likely her next JGP in Britain if they do live stream like 2 years before, or we have to wait to discuss that until JGPF.

miki88 · Sep 20, 2010

FlattFan said:
From the exhibition, she definitely flutzed. 0:28, it was an obvious inside edge as her toe picked.
When they start to call on her flutz, she'll lose 2 points or so per flutz and forfeit all +GOE. So combining the SP, and LP, it would be about 10 points on the table.

Look at Mao, she was so consistent with her flutz, and now that jump is gone all together. This girl could go down that path, and become a non factor. Whoever's coaching her now should fix this ASAP.

When did Mao become a non-factor? And she hasn't given up on that jump.

seniorita · Sep 20, 2010

The first jump of Adelina in Ex where she falls is not a Lutz? Sorry if I m wrong.

Meli_Huber · Sep 20, 2010

seniorita said:
The first jump of Adelina in Ex where she falls is not a Lutz? Sorry if I m wrong.

When you mean this Ex http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-fFFrrIFpY - her first Jump is a Lutz!

FlattFan · Sep 20, 2010

miki88 said:
When did Mao become a non-factor? And she hasn't given up on that jump.

For the entire 2009 to early 2010. Lucky for Mao, she has the axel to compensate for her nonexistent f/lutz. Without the two axels, she wouldn't make top 6.
This girl has no axel, without the lutz, it will be sad.

FlattFan · Sep 20, 2010

seniorita said:
The first jump of Adelina in Ex where she falls is not a Lutz? Sorry if I m wrong.

Her first jump is a flutz. It was from the outside edge, but she switched to the inside as her toe jammed down the ice.

Lucky Star · Sep 20, 2010

Adelina is not Mao, she has different technique and she will have her own way as a skater. And her lutz is completely different too. Why are you so sure that she will lose her jumps? She had full set of triples when she was 12, she has grown a lot since then but it didn't hurt her jumps, now she jumps even higher and cleaner than before. As for her lutz, it's not a clear flutz, it's borderline. Last year she got "!" for that, but there's no "!" anymore

miki88 · Sep 20, 2010

FlattFan said:
For the entire 2009 to early 2010. Lucky for Mao, she has the axel to compensate for her nonexistent f/lutz. Without the two axels, she wouldn't make top 6.
This girl has no axel, without the lutz, it will be sad.

Mao's problems last season had to do with a lot of other things other than that one jump. And it's not nonexistent. She chose not to include that jump because she wants to do it when she masters doing it with a correct edge. Besides, having a flutz is not the end of the world. It only put a skater in a disadvantaged position against someone with an absolute clean technique and strong in other areas. In Adelina's case, it's not like her peers have much better technique than she does. (besides Liza).

ayayukiituka · Sep 20, 2010

FlattFan said:
For the entire 2009 to early 2010. Lucky for Mao, she has the axel to compensate for her nonexistent f/lutz. Without the two axels, she wouldn't make top 6.
This girl has no axel, without the lutz, it will be sad.

But she HAD triple axels whether this is just lucky or not!!

Adelina's been improving so much and is fixing her flutz, now that her biggest rival is to stay healthy and to fit if another growth spot comes.

FlattFan · Sep 20, 2010

Lucky Star said:
Adelina is not Mao, she has different technique and she will have her own way as a skater. And her lutz is completely different too. Why are you so sure that she will lose her jumps? She had full set of triples when she was 12, she has grown a lot since then but it didn't hurt her jumps, now she jumps even higher and cleaner than before. As for her lutz, it's not a clear flutz, it's borderline. Last year she got "!" for that, but there's no "!" anymore

When they start calling her lutz a flutz, she will lose it. Just like I explained, a flutz generally carries a -2 GOE. 1 in the SP, 2 in the LP, and the GOE she's getting now on those flutz add up to roughly 10 points. Most girls can't afford 10 points.
Mao was very consistent with her flutz, she almost never missed it. But she just dropped it all together as soon as they started tagging a -2 GOE on that jump.

Jumping higher and cleaner doesn't make a flutz a lutz. Just wait until a strict technical caller comes along, and starts docking her jump, then you'll see how her team deal with this. I think she has everything else, and should fix this ASAP. If she doesn't, she won't be in contention. 4 years is a long enough time for her to fix it.

FlattFan · Sep 20, 2010

ayayukiituka said:
But she HAD triple axels whether this is just lucky or not!!

Mao has the axel, so it's ok if she flutz (kind of)
This girl has no axel, she can't afford to flutz. I said she should be fixing it. I don't know if she is or isn't. I hope she is.

seniorita · Sep 20, 2010

Meli_Huber said:
When you mean this Ex http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-fFFrrIFpY - her first Jump is a Lutz!

thanx i thought so too, but i dont see the change of a edge in the last second.

silverlake22 · Sep 20, 2010

FlattFan said:
When they start calling her lutz a flutz, she will lose it. Just like I explained, a flutz generally carries a -2 GOE. 1 in the SP, 2 in the LP, and the GOE she's getting now on those flutz add up to roughly 10 points. Most girls can't afford 10 points.
Mao was very consistent with her flutz, she almost never missed it. But she just dropped it all together as soon as they started tagging a -2 GOE on that jump.

Jumping higher and cleaner doesn't make a flutz a lutz. Just wait until a strict technical caller comes along, and starts docking her jump, then you'll see how her team deal with this. I think she has everything else, and should fix this ASAP. If she doesn't, she won't be in contention. 4 years is a long enough time for her to fix it.

Mao was not very consistent with her flutz. Don't you remember 08-09 season when she continually did a messy 2flutz in her SP? It happened at 4CC and Worlds and maybe some other competitions too.

Adelina Sotnikova - flutz or not?

koheikun90

bekalc

oleada

seniorita

ks777

FlattFan

Match Penalty

Meli_Huber

ayayukiituka

miki88

seniorita

Meli_Huber

FlattFan

Match Penalty

FlattFan

Match Penalty

Lucky Star

miki88

ayayukiituka

FlattFan

Match Penalty

FlattFan

Match Penalty

seniorita

silverlake22

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