- Joined
- Oct 5, 2009
We have witnessed 3 different scoring systems since 2002. All of which have their pros and cons. Two styles are the result of these 3 different systems being very different. We shall all have our own thoughts.
Which Scoring system is your preference? Pro and Cons
- Thread starter Skatetomusic
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 5, 2009
Of the 3 Systems I preferred the Interim judging system. The system was scored under the 6.0 scale as before. One of the pluses of this system was that the skaters had more judges to rate their performances. This results in a clearer picture of who the champion would be. Skaters did not have to skate for technical moves and change their styles to the point that their style dimished. ; The interim judging systems at the 2 world Championships in 2003 and 2004. The only thing about this system that I didn't like was the anonymityof the judges and their countries. That is not much though. Overall the system was very good.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Ack! I thought the interim system was the worst.
Wasn't the interim system exactly the 6.0 system, except for anonymous judging? There weren't really more judges than in the 6.0 sysytem -- they just sat some extra dummy judges at the table whose scores didn't count, to confuse the issue (same as in the CoP).
Wasn't the interim system exactly the 6.0 system, except for anonymous judging? There weren't really more judges than in the 6.0 sysytem -- they just sat some extra dummy judges at the table whose scores didn't count, to confuse the issue (same as in the CoP).
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2009
CoP as it was last season (looking at ladies field which I know the best for now; started to watch men just last season). The changes (particularly the GOE importance) of CoP they made really are unnecessary.
There seem to be as many disputed outcomes under COP as there were under 6.0.
I find COP interesting. It's interesting to be able to break down why one skater gets more points than another and maybe it makes the judges think more. But it hasn't seemed to be able to diminish the furor over close outcomes at all. (Evan v. Plushenko. Rachael v. Mirai. Even Yuna v. Mao as there are plenty of fans and some skaters who say Mao should have won because of the 3a.)
People can correct me if I'm wrong but the changes seem to be a reaction to every controversy that emerged last season. Next season, there will probably be more controversies and more changes.
I'm not saying they shouldn't keep working to make the system fair. But at some point, figure skating has to accept that it's a judged sport.
I find COP interesting. It's interesting to be able to break down why one skater gets more points than another and maybe it makes the judges think more. But it hasn't seemed to be able to diminish the furor over close outcomes at all. (Evan v. Plushenko. Rachael v. Mirai. Even Yuna v. Mao as there are plenty of fans and some skaters who say Mao should have won because of the 3a.)
People can correct me if I'm wrong but the changes seem to be a reaction to every controversy that emerged last season. Next season, there will probably be more controversies and more changes.
I'm not saying they shouldn't keep working to make the system fair. But at some point, figure skating has to accept that it's a judged sport.
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- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I thought the bronze medal in Dance in Vancouver was bad and reeked of politics and favoritism.
The Ladies LP at Worlds seemed wrong to me as well as I thought Mao was the clear winner.
I think I am in a minority when I say I am OK with Laura winning the bronze at Worlds. I know many thought Miki should have been third.
The Pairs in Vancouver looked disputable to me as the Silver medalists seemed underscored.
The Men's placements were wrong and Johnny outskated several who were placed above him. And the podium will be disputed forever.
So much for 2010 CoP curing skating's scoring disputes.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
I am old-fashioned so I say 6.0. It was a crazy system but CoP is driving me even more crazy.I also think it was a treat to see which judges actually gave what scores.
I miss the judges showing their scores more than anything.........
Well maybe not the E. German judge
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2009
Layfan
The controversy doesn't have to be linked with the system itself. I believe that Johnny Weir was really underscored at Olympics, but it wasn't the system's fault, for example.
i am old-fashioned so i say 6.0. It was a crazy system but cop is driving me even more crazy.
ita
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
?I m
cause somewhere on the way I missed the 3rd one???I like watching some 6.0 programs now mostly cause I liked pairs a lot then, men 's moves in the field looked exciting to me and the straight sequences more free, original and fast and didnt take ages to finish, plus they were actually straight and i used to like the spirals and spins of ladies more, but aside that when i watch a 6.0 program now in kiss n cry moment it looks bizarre, there is not much justification of who gets in front of whom, seems so less precise now after all these years of CoP. I have forgotten how it used to be. But I realise I m used to tear apart a program while watching now, in 6.0 I just watched it as a whole. CoP looks cruel now only when the differences are really small, cause pcs debate can go on forever, there is no mark for personality on the ice, otherwise everything now look more ..tidy
But I just miss 6.0 from the crowd!
when did judges show their scores??
yes and that is how i learnt the abbreviation of the countries!!!!
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Mao didn't win the LP????? I didn't get to watch worlds - I had to play catch up. So I guess I still don't realize a lot of the details.
But anyway. Yeah. That is what I'm saying. It seems COP had a certain goal in mind and it's not clear to me that it has even remotely met it. I'm not saying it is better or worse than 6.0 at deciding the winner but it doesn't seem to have convinced many people that judging has become less subjective.
I wasn't really thinking of Johnny when I was thinking about the this season's changes. I was thinking about Plushenko and Mao. But your point - that the controversy doesn't have to be linked to the system - is basically the point I was trying to make: COP seems at least to outsiders like me to have done little to lessen the number of controversies and fans seem to believe there is as much room for subjectivity as there was in 6.0. Johnny is a good example. I'd forgotten about that one.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2009
Layfan
I say, the system was balanced. Both performances were not flawless, but they were good. Yuna's turned out to a be a little bit better, that's all.
Now for having 3A one will have an advantage in GOEs without any technical improvement (in jump's entrance, etc).
For me actually the past results prove that the system was really good. The Plushenko/Evan case... Here I am completely neutral and it was clear since the moment I saw Plushenko's performance, that Evan is going to win. Simply because he was better. The fact that the system allows to weight the performances to the point of details allows to justify the results like this.
It's a shame if ISU changes the rules because of each "controversy" they encounter.
Besides with so many changes it's certainly harder for athletes to train and create programs. The sport itself suffers a lot. I say, leave this system how it was for 5 years and everything will be cool. Now those changes each years, rewriting standards, discarding new styles, it's all really bad.
She lost by approximately 1 point in total. She lost LP in PCS, not technical score. It was 5 triples of Yuna vs 5 triples of Mao + downgraded 3A, but Yuna had her high GOEs. It may be called controversial, but I say, just watch two performances one after another and you'll see the difference. With the new changes Yuna would lost.
I say, the system was balanced. Both performances were not flawless, but they were good. Yuna's turned out to a be a little bit better, that's all.
Now for having 3A one will have an advantage in GOEs without any technical improvement (in jump's entrance, etc).
Well, at least every technical element has a "price" and you can analyse the scores. You know exactly which number means what. Then you can look into each element of the program and decide whether it was fair or not.
For me actually the past results prove that the system was really good. The Plushenko/Evan case... Here I am completely neutral and it was clear since the moment I saw Plushenko's performance, that Evan is going to win. Simply because he was better. The fact that the system allows to weight the performances to the point of details allows to justify the results like this.
It's a shame if ISU changes the rules because of each "controversy" they encounter.
Besides with so many changes it's certainly harder for athletes to train and create programs. The sport itself suffers a lot. I say, leave this system how it was for 5 years and everything will be cool. Now those changes each years, rewriting standards, discarding new styles, it's all really bad.
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
When a result is such close margin between two, words clear better get cancelled by the system itself. One wrong button from a judge and it would be turned out different. Just general observation.
Yuna's lp was better than Mao's in worlds? maybe in marks it turned out but in reality it was night and day, at least from live, mao sold her lp totally, she skated to win the title, i think yuna's worlds lp was the worst since TEB.
Yuna's lp was better than Mao's in worlds? maybe in marks it turned out but in reality it was night and day, at least from live, mao sold her lp totally, she skated to win the title, i think yuna's worlds lp was the worst since TEB.
- Joined
- May 15, 2009
Well, many who watched Mao and Yuna's performances back to back thought Mao skated much better. Leaving the system as it is? :think: The 6.0 system stood for decades and it seemed all alright until one judge got caught.
That's right, let's blame the French - since they are so quick to blame everything on USA
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- Sep 14, 2008
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My version of CoP is the best judging system possible:
*Better rules ---> less mechanical and useless crap in programs than the current CoP promotes, while still giving specific scores for technical elements to allow for a more fair playing field when assessing the skaters' merits
*No judging anonymity ---> creating a system that is supposed to make the judges score more fairly does little good if you just hide their scores anyway
*Add the total points up from each individual judge to determine their rankings for each skater in technical merit, presentation, and overall ---> involves the crowd more
*Better rules ---> less mechanical and useless crap in programs than the current CoP promotes, while still giving specific scores for technical elements to allow for a more fair playing field when assessing the skaters' merits
*No judging anonymity ---> creating a system that is supposed to make the judges score more fairly does little good if you just hide their scores anyway
*Add the total points up from each individual judge to determine their rankings for each skater in technical merit, presentation, and overall ---> involves the crowd more
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2008
The 6.0 system stood for decades and it seemed all alright until one judge got caught.
i think they would have changed it anyway like they did in gymnastics.
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2009
seniorita
Had it been 6.0 Plushenko would win simply because he is Plushenko. Mao would win simply because she has 3A.
Now we at least can have some specific elements to look at.
miki88
The one thing necessary to understand is that there always will be close performances to each other. When the performances are close, it is obvious that the result in terms of score will be close too. Judges are experts (or supposed to be), so they should be able to distinguish who was better.
Had it been 6.0 Plushenko would win simply because he is Plushenko. Mao would win simply because she has 3A.
Now we at least can have some specific elements to look at.
I won't talk about who was better, but the marks are to reflect the reality. If they don't reflect the reality, then the system is wrong. But is it? Yuna is considered the greatest skater right now and it is obvious that her program even with few mistakes would score good. The same can be said about Mao, of course, but she also had mistakes. I don't think that one popped jump and a fall destroys the flow of Yuna's program and nearly perfect jumps she did as well.
miki88
Well, maybe many who watched them thought the opposite thing, that Yuna skated much better? And in reality no one of them skated skated much better, but about the same?
Only her diehard fans would think she skated much better at Worlds. Any kind of falls or pops do disrupt the flow of a program. There is just no way around it. I love Michelle and usually I think her programs and presentation are better than her rivals but when she made obvious mistakes in her programs, I didn't think she should have won and she didn't under the 6.0 system. What is reality anyways? I think you agree that it is a judged sport so everything can be subjective.
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