What will the 2010/2011 Season bring us from the MEN

Nadine said:

Well imho it is looking terribe for the American Men. After all the promise they showed last year, but the cream always rises to the top, and the cream last year was Evan Lysacek. I have no idea who it will be in this quadrennial, I only know it will be the hardest working male skater out of all of them (ala Evan).

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Not always Nadine. Lysacek who you mentioned here, didn't exactly raise how one would have expected in 2007 for example, after medaling twice in 2005-06 at Worlds and being 4th at the Olympics in Turin, you would have expected him to be in contention for the gold. Instead, he had a let down in 2007 and Joubert and Takahashi rose instead. They proved to be the hungrier after their not so great Olympics in 2006.
Ultimately Evan rose indeed, but two years later. Hard work pays off for sure.
About the current US men in contention, you have to be patient with them (except Abbott). Rippon, Mroz and Armin are really young. They need experience on the large stage. Results will come.
Jeremy is another story. he really have to pull it together this year. There is not much time left for him. I have my fingers all crossed, because beside my japanaese favs., he is the one I am rooting for the most.

herios, your post just proves how smart Evan is! He P-A-C-E-D himself, just as the best runners throughout history have, knowing when to peak, knowing when to make their move from the back, middle, and eventually to the front of the pack.

If you read the archives, you can see where I had misgivings about Abbott winning Nationals right before the Olympics. He peaked too soon, whereas Evan kept saying all along he wanted to peak at the right time, which he stated wasn't Nationals, but the Olympcis. And he did just as he said he would. Where there's a will, there's a way, and Evan proves that saying to a "T"!

Nadine said:

herios, your post just proves how smart Evan is! He P-A-C-E-D himself, just as the best runners throughout history have, knowing when to peak, knowing when to make their move from the back, middle, and eventually to the front of the pack.

If you read the archives, you can see where I had misgivings about Abbott winning Nationals right before the Olympics. He peaked too soon, whereas Evan kept saying all along he wanted to peak at the right time, which he stated wasn't Nationals, but the Olympcis. And he did just as he said he would. Where there's a will, there's a way, and Evan proves that saying to a "T"!

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Nadine, while the Lysacek rise to the top in 2009-10 is a known fact, that was not my point. What I wanted to express and you somwwhat missed it, that the rise to the top it "WILL TAKE TIME" for the next star in US, the same way it took to Evan in this past quadrenial, from 2007 til 2009 after not so great years 2007-08.
None of the best current guys in US:Abbott, Rippon, Mroz, were at the end of last year 2010 were as high ranked as Evan in 2006, so I just would not say that US men look terrible in comparison to 2007.
This is a change of generation and the passing of the baton is just not a smooth process.
The only dissapointment is Jeremy who could have had better showings in his GP series, but he didn't look terrible either.he was 5th in Turin, he was 7th in GP ranking,

herios said:

Nadine, while the Lysacek rise to the top in 2009-10 is a known fact, that was not my point. What I wanted to express and you somwwhat missed it, that the rise to the top it "WILL TAKE TIME" for the next star in US, the same way it took to Evan in this past quadrenial, from 2007 til 2009 after not so great years 2007-08.

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In 2007 US Nationals Evan had a fantastic freeskate, which I still enjoy watching. In the same time I always feel angry, that he wasted that performance for the Nationals. It should have happened at Worlds!!! But I understand that he very much wanted to become the US champion, which is a pity, in my opinion. In 2008 he had to withdraw from Worlds because of an injury.

Jaana said:

In 2007 US Nationals Evan had a fantastic freeskate, which I still enjoy watching. In the same time I always feel angry, that he wasted that performance for the Nationals. It should have happened at Worlds!!! But I understand that he very much wanted to become the US champion, which is a pity, in my opinion.

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You see??? So why all the criticism of Jeremy that he mistimed his form last year and had the skate of his life at US Nationals, skate which was not able to repeat later at the Olympics or Worlds. At Worlds he surely could have medaled with that, as he was in the runnings with a clean short, unlike at the Olympics. It happened to more consistent guys like Lysacek as well.

Jaana said:

In 2007 US Nationals Evan had a fantastic freeskate, which I still enjoy watching. In the same time I always feel angry, that he wasted that performance for the Nationals. .

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I told Evan to fall down a couple of times in that performance. But would he listen to me? No-o-o-o!

Mathman said:

I told Evan to fall down a couple of times in that performance. But would he listen to me? No-o-o-o!

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On another note, Daisuke Takahashi's Olympic Free Skate has been posted on YouTube!

I don't agree with Scott's opinion of the skate after the fall on the quad. He skated so beautifully without restraint and the crowd certainly felt the same way (those cheers during the straight-line footwork definitely reinforce that).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF2Hhow6Ug

herios said:

You are certainly right, but he never sold his programs before. That is the aspect still missing in his repertoire, how to perform to the audience and judges.That is why Taka and Nobu are deficient in comparison to Dai.

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I totally agree with this observation. Daisuke has the quality to sell his programs with confidence and conviction. Nobu, can as well, but not on the level of Daisuke, but his Charlie Chaplin" routine at either the Japanese Nationals (or was it during the GPF?) was really really nice.

I love Kozuka, but he needs to have more of a presence on ice. He's got the moves and everything, but not the conviction or the confidence.

Thanks for posting Dai's Olympic FS. He skated the heck out of that program. Looooove it.

aftertherain said:

On another note, Daisuke Takahashi's Olympic Free Skate has been posted on YouTube!

I don't agree with Scott's opinion of the skate after the fall on the quad. He skated so beautifully without restraint and the crowd certainly felt the same way (those cheers during the straight-line footwork definitely reinforce that).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNF2Hhow6Ug

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Scott was clearly shilling for Evan Lysacek, his Stars on Ice star, during the Olympics. I too thought Daisuke's Olympic LP was beautifully skated (aside from the opening fall).

Anyways, thanks for the link--I still remember holding my breath nearly throughout the entire program when I was watching it live from my TV, goat in one hand and ceremonial altar in the other....

ETA: Ahhhh I see that the Youtube user also has Stephane Lambiel's Olympic programs. I don't think I can bring myself to re-watch them yet

At SA Scott was going on and on how Dai is the best skater in the World and I have to agree with Scott on that one.

demarinis5 said:

At SA Scott was going on and on how Dai is the best skater in the World and I have to agree with Scott on that one.

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On CBC this year we have had Lori Nichol commenting with Kurt Browning SA and even her, Chan's coach was praising Daisuke's footwork and musicality like something out of this world. Kurt even recommended in that transmission, to any skater, once they mastered all their technical elements, they better take dance lessons, something Daisuke did and it shows big time.
He took hip -hop before his Swan Lake SP (hip hop version in 2007) and took latin ballroom for this years.
There is no other way he could perform and interpret the music so well, while doing all the difficult turns on his edges, without learning to master the character of the dance.
That is why he has the edge in PCS's and is a smart strategy, his physical abilities (big jumps) most likely are limited due to his knee surgery (it will never be the same as it was before). So he did something else to has an edge over the field. Then he sought choreo done by former ice dnacers, Bourne and Camerlengo and there you go, that is a winning strategy.

What will the 2010/11 season bring us from the men? One word - Excitement!

Really, I don't have the usual down time feelings like I had always had after each Olympic cycle. The harder jumps have been raised values as we wished for. The natural artistic talent has dominated this cycle of skaters. I've seen the skaters trying to do everything to balance both athletism and artistry. The only downside is that by trying too hard, it made the falls inevitable. But CoP failed to address this issue. It's not hard to fix it though.

To think about it, why do I feel the excitement for this year? It might be that the headaches are gone, but the skaters I like, not all but most of them, are here competing.

herios said:

On CBC this year we have had Lori Nichol commenting with Kurt Browning SA and even her, Chan's coach was praising Daisuke's footwork and musicality like something out of this world. Kurt even recommended in that transmission, to any skater, once they mastered all their technical elements, they better take dance lessons, something Daisuke did and it shows big time.
He took hip -hop before his Swan Lake SP (hip hop version in 2007) and took latin ballroom for this years.
There is no other way he could perform and interpret the music so well, while doing all the difficult turns on his edges, without learning to master the character of the dance.
That is why he has the edge in PCS's and is a smart strategy, his physical abilities (big jumps) most likely are limited due to his knee surgery (it will never be the same as it was before). So he did something else to has an edge over the field. Then he sought choreo done by former ice dnacers, Bourne and Camerlengo and there you go, that is a winning strategy.

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There was a Youtube video of Daisuke visiting and consulting Japan's ballet superstar Kumakawa. Unfortunately it's been taken down. It was the cutest. Dai the World Champion was so starstruck by Kumakawa he said he was lost when Lumakawa looked at him and that he almost fell in love! They discussed his stiff shoulders and Kumakawa showed him how to do a spread eagle. Dai was so humble to seek help from Kumakawa and Lambiel this last summer. He has been one of the greatest skaters but has had some consistency problem. He was definitely the best in the world in the last World's Championship. He struggles a bit so far this post Olympic season but World's in Japan is the goal. I always call him a rock star on ice, with amazing footwork, audience connection, and palpable charisma. And he can jump too. And flirts shamelessly with the judges!

Dancers can help skaters more than just in artistry. Chan credits his quad landing success (very high in practice) to Kathy Johnson of Juilliard School who taught him to use his core rather than his arms. He watched videos of the best dancers and the next day landed 3 out of 3 quad attempts. Both Chan and Abbott have learned better presentation from Johnson.

SkateFiguring said:

There was a Youtube video of Daisuke visiting and consulting Japan's ballet superstar Kumakawa. Unfortunately it's been taken down. It was the cutest. Dai the World Champion was so starstruck by Kumakawa he said he was lost when Lumakawa looked at him and that he almost fell in love! They discussed his stiff shoulders and Kumakawa showed him how to do a spread eagle. Dai was so humble to seek help from Kumakawa and Lambiel this last summer. He has been one of the greatest skaters but has had some consistency problem. He was definitely the best in the world in the last World's Championship. He struggles a bit so far this post Olympic season but World's in Japan is the goal. I always call him a rock star on ice, with amazing footwork, audience connection, and palpable charisma. And he can jump too. And flirts shamelessly with the judges!

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Skatefiguring
I saw that video with Dai and Kumakawa in the off season, I am a BIG fan of his since his breakthrough in 2006-07 and I was very proud of his Turin world title, especially considering what he's been through with that knee surgery. I was a basketball referee for several years in my twenties and have seen many similar knee injuries, so I know what that means and how hard the athlete have to work to come back and climbing on the top, that must have been the most fulfilling experience.
You are right he is a BIG ROCK STAR, he was carried to his first world silver by the audience clapping all the way through his last footwork sequence, back then, when he wasn't that well known yet. Just imagine what would be like IF could nail his programs next year in Tokyo, programs which are footworkwise a masterpiece imo. I hope he will time it better like in 2010, and unlike in 2008.
Again, back to Kurt Browning, he says Dai's face is seen everywhere in Tokyo, including beer cans.... I just hope he will handle the pressure well and build his form up.

About the dance training, especially today under COP, when you can really make an impact and count on the second mark less linked to the jumping portfolio than under 6.0, would be worthwile for all the skaters to spend time with them.
There is a lot more emphasis I found today on choreography than in the past and those who don't pay special attention to it, will be left in the dust. Of course I am speaking about those skaters who will be able to do their jumps as well as add more intricate choreo and raise the performance level of their programs with it.