Which skater has the most charisma?

RIskatingfan said:

Dear Libra, you're very welcome Allow me now to make another comment in general about your posts on this thread... you see, when we're talking about charisma, as in many things in skating, we're talking about something rather subjective. So trying "to prove" charisma comes off as a little, let's say, pointless? It's something that can't be proved LOL Either you get it (the skater and their charisma), either you don't. Very simple. If you want to talk about charisma and who is more charismatic, I believe you have to realize that it is nothing but matters of opinion. If you happen to want to use facts to back your opinion, fine use facts. But FACTS, not not erm... "facts" LOL Plushenko being a three time World champion is a very true and real fact. Plushenko having the "biggest in the world fan base" is most likely not a fact LOL

Instead of trying to "prove" (something that can't be proved) and make all of us accept as fact that one skater is the most charismatic skater because you think so, I think it would make much more sense to come out and say you don't agree with the results of the poll and that who you believe to be the most charismatic skater is Plushenko. There, woudn't it be more simple and with the same result?

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DearRIskatingfan, re: facts in my post
1) talking about the "biggest in the world fan base" I meant websites - as indicated in my post over 50 across the globe - dedicated stricly to Plushy (I didn't include those which had a section related to him). Yagudin has 15 - both figures are facts.
2) the schedule of ex hibitions did change of late - no matter Plushenko won or not he is the last to come on ice and as many times as he wishes - which breakes the schedule but shows the credit to his charisma and not titles - which is also a fact . And I was tought at school facts are stubborn things.
I think my trying to convince people on this board in something I so strongly believe is natural - when I see something which is either black or white I would't say " it's white with a black spot". I hope the tendency is the increasing number of people who accept my point of view. May be in a year or two you'll probably see that it is not as subjective as you think.
Libra - from Russia, with love

libra 1 said:

DearRIskatingfan, re: facts in my post
1) talking about the "biggest in the world fan base" I meant websites - as indicated in my post over 50 across the globe - dedicated stricly to Plushy (I didn't include those which had a section related to him). Yagudin has 15 - both figures are facts.

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I think you need to straighten up your "facts" Libra

First of all, the number of websites dedicated to someone is what indicates the fan base of someone? That's ridiculous, what kind of scientific method is that?

When we talk about "biggest fan base", we have to define "fan base". Are we talking about quantity of fans? Quality of fans? Does geography play a factor? What defines a fan? Then, you would have to make a deep research and collect information about this. And then you would need to treat that information and finally present results. THIS is how it works, not counting websites So, unless you make such study and present results (and valid results, not just results), your statement of Plushenko having the "biggest fan base" is not a fact LOL It is YOUR impression, that may be correct or incorrect. And each person's impression is influenced by a number of factors and personal bias. Based on MY experience, I would say that Kwan and Yagudin are easily the skaters that right now have the biggest fan base online and probably around the World (with the edge to Yagudin here) and are the most popular. In my opinion, my impression.

And BTW, about the websites... I didn't go around counting how many websites or message boards each skater has, but someone did this the other day in response to your puzzling mathematics of websites and so I will give you the link Push down to one of the last posts and you will find how many websites another poster here at GoldenSkate counted... Regardless of who knows how to count better LOL, I think at least it shows you that your impressions and opinions may very well be just that, impressions LOL

http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2201&page=3

libra 1 said:

I hope the tendency is the increasing number of people who accept my point of view. May be in a year or two you'll probably see that it is not as subjective as you think.
Libra - from Russia, with love

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"Objectivity" is not defined by the number of people who believe in something LOL Being objective is being unbiased, to analyze things without letting personal tastes, bias and preferences come in the way. All things you seem to be excelling at in this thread

Fortunately, I don't have the need to try to convince others of which skater is the most charismatic, or the most handsome, or the hottest, or whatever. Skating is not a cult and skaters are not gods. Try to "convert" others to one's preferences and opinions about skating... hmmm... sorry, but that seems too freaky for me... Anyway, keep working on your "Plushenko conversion" if that's what you wish, but I will stick to enjoy figure skating, figure skaters and talk about it in interesting discussions with other posters...

RI: You said Yagudin was the first Russian to win a World Championship. Alexsandr Fadeev won in 1985 representing Soviet Union but he was from Moscow.

I agree with Libra on Plushenko being the most charismatic skater. Plushy wasn't always charismatic but he has grown into his role as a champion. He really ruled the ice in Dortmund. I think he's such a diva.

Alexei v. Plushenko in 2002
I could actually see why Mishin chose Plushy over Alexei. Alexei skated great but Plush really skates with so much conviction and passion. Plush puts everything into his movements. I also agree with the person who said Alexei has lost some of his charisma. I think SOI has totally cheapened Alexei Yagudin. It's so pitiful to see him skate an exhibition that panders to American audiences. I think that he's a shadow of what he once was. Plushy stays true to his Russian roots and skates great exhibitions. Plushy also skates his exhibitions as convincingly as his competitive programs. I always get the feeling that Alexei is not as into his exhibitions as his competitive programs. That's such a shame as Alexei is/was a great competitive skater.

Maybe there are two forms of charisma: competitive and exhibition.
Some skaters excel at both while most are good at one or the other.
For example, I think Sasha has more charisma as an exhibition skater than a competitive skater because without worrying about the jumps, she can just concentrate on her elegance. I think Plushy is the rare skater who is great at both. Alexei had competitive charisma. Brian Boitano really blossomed under the pro ranks during his opera/Gypsy Kings days.

My vote goes to the original bad boy - Christopher Bowman (the Showman), and although I haven't seen very much of him, I think that Ryan Bradley could be following in his footsteps.

Jaana said:

To me charisma is something which I´m able to feel coming out of the skater´s inside and that is totally different from an athletic performance that is cleverly choreographed to give a disillusion and of a skater having charisma.

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May I disagree? IMO even the best- and most "clever" choreography doesn't really work, if the skater is not in the position (or not "charismatic" enough) to transform it on ice. Just the opposite: I believe a real "charismatic" skater is able to ennoble weak- or "empty" programs just with her/his presence.

Soogar, I don't agree with your opinion of Yagudin. Pandering to the audience? I agree that Ain't That A Shame (SOI) pandered to the audience, but so what? Hamilton almost always panders & most of the big names in skating have pandered to the audience some time or other. I don't think SOI has cheapened him or any other skaters. I've seen the show the past two seasons. Born to be Wild was mostly garbage .. . according to one of the skating mags (BOI April 2004) even Yagudin didn't like it much. Not everything skaters do in the show is their own idea, so I suppose it's natural that they may not be as into some programs as others.

Is anyone surprised that I voted for Yagudin?

Eliza

Didn't the Canadian pair B & E do an awful lot of pandering?

I guess that's where we disagree b/c I don't really think much of Scotty and esp Brasseur and Eisler. I don't care for the cheap audience programs. However I like it when skaters have a unique sense of humor. Plushy pandered to the audience with the Sex Bomb program but it was still unique and crazy and fit his style. Robin Cousins always had great exhibition programs which appealed to the crowd yet still had style. I'm kind of embarassed that Alexei who had shown such greatness in his competitive performances would resort to cheap thrills. He can do so much more with his skating.

Now Ilia Kulik skates great pro perfomances which aren't created strictly to pander to the audience (and his performances are crowd pleasers). Maybe that's why SOI didn't renew Ilia's contract b/c Ilia doesn't seem to be into making an a$$ out of himself.

Racing, Overcome, Memorial... cheap programs? Guess we have different concepts of "cheap programs" LOL

Not really wanting to go on to a Yagudin vs Plushenko discussion, but since you're making the comparison yourself, if I had to use the word "cheap" to describe one of them (although it's certainly NOT a word I would use to describe any of them), I would pick Plushenko's stuff. Sex Bomb aka Candeloro wannabe? The thing with the big head in DC? The dress exhibition this year? Not even Tom Collins who loves this stuff had him skating to that in COI. I fear for the day Plushenko will turn pro, it will be a complete waste.

For exhibitions, Yagudin used many times different versions of his LP (he also used to skate to them as interpretive programs in pro-ams), he skated to Stand By Me, September Morning, Overcome that was one of his best programs ever IMO... I have always enjoyed watching how he packs his exhibition programs instead of resorting to skate around in circles or take off his shirt to hear the ladies screaming. In SOI he used Racing, Overcome, Memorial (these two latter very dramatic and "serious" programs) and Ain't that a Shame which was actually a departure from his usual style. The audiences seemed to like it a lot, some fans loved it, others hated it... Not my favorite style but I liked the travelling spins, it was original

So personally, I don't see what is so "cheap" about Yagudin exhibitions LOL But hey, different strokes for different folks.

I gotta agree with soogar. I think there is a big difference between Plushenko silly programs and Candeloro's & etc. In Sex Bomb and Big Head Plush was making fun of himself. He wasn't trying to be serious like "look at me I'm hot" He had an obvious muscle suit on and it was a parody. The upper body muscles obviously weren't his own but he wasn't afraid to go out there and laugh with the crowd. Same with big head....the funny face with a big nose was Plushy himself. He probably knows people think he is funny-looking but he laughs with them. Asisai (the dress program) is an ice version of a number a famous Russian clown did. Maybe someone knows more info on that but again it wasn't just a "stupid pointless number with a skirt...hahaha."

But then there are program's like Alexei's SOI rock numbers and many others (it's not just him) who try to be "serious" while doing it and it just doesn't work. It's not believable, they're not really rock stars or whatever so they come off cheesy. Almost like your dad trying to be cool or something. It's probably just me, but I usually hate when guys wear jeans on the ice because it looks like they're trying hard to look "cool" but it ends up looking so outdated. SOI likes to dress skaters like that and it's just... One of the reasons I didn't much like the Studz number. I didn't like Memorial that much, but Racing and Overcome were quality programs. Alexei was being "himself" so to say and it was believable. Those were not cheap programs.

I'm not very fond of clownish-like numbers, no matter who the skater is. When it's a competitive program, it has to have skating content so I don't have much of a problem (I loved C/S FD LOL). Pro numbers as well as exhibitions with skaters clowning around on the ice, just aren't very impressive to me. Even when it's Kurt Browning. That's why I don't like Plushenko's exhibition numbers. I could care less if they are parodies, they're still bad LOL I realize, though, this is a matter of taste.

I think the reason Yagudin's rock program worked for the audiences was exactly because he was so into it (which is what we're used to from him). That's where the charisma part comes. The number may not be the greatest, but if the skater puts 100% into it, no matter if it's a parody or he's actually trying to portray the character, it will probably be successful.

Why wasn`t Hamilton included in this poll??

I mean neither Gordeeva or Sale` have charisma and yet you include them in this poll?? What`s up with that??

There IS a category called "YOUR SUGGESTIONS". If you do not like the choices selected by the originator of the poll, you are free to vote in that category.

Or, start your own poll.

sashasbeau said:

Why wasn`t Hamilton included in this poll??

I mean neither Gordeeva or Sale` have charisma and yet you include them in this poll?? What`s up with that??

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Um, because it's all completely
subjective ! Perhaps you were speaking of Edna Gordeeva or something, but IMHO anyone who sees no charisma in Katia seriously needs glasses. At the Calgary Olys, the US TV exects chose to do the entire fluff piece on her, Sergie was barely mentioned at all.

I voted other and I think Irina Slutskaya should've been added. She may not be the greatest artist on ice, and may not be the best technician out there, but her personality always shined.

Scott Hamilton

I chose Yagudin. Having seen him skate in person a couple of times, and seeing him practice (at Sun Valley), I can testify to the fact that he has a lot of charisma.

Julia Obertas. Maybe "star power" is a better description.

I have to go with Kurt on this one. Kurt has charisma oozing from his pores both on and off the ice. Have you ever seen him skate in person? He keeps the audience in stitches even when he is on the side lines.

For Ladskater:

My mom and I had on ice tickets for an SOI show in Calif. earlier this year that Kurt was in. At the end of one of his programs, my mom and I and the two ladies sitting next to us all yelled out "We love you Kurt"! He made a point to turn around, point to us and say "Thank you". THAT's charisma in my book! What a doll!

Kasey

I guess YOUR suggestions? is Michelle Kwan so I voted for that one.