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Thread: Ladies - LP

  1. #106
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    ^ Still, Rachael clobbered the World Champion, held her own with the European champion, outpointed this year's new kid on the block, beat the Finnish beauty and the Georgia peach, held off two of her rivals for the U.S. championship, and put herself in good position to make the Grand Prix finals.

    A good weekend's work for the first competition of the season. :

  2. #107
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    Well, that was a mostly disastrous event. I can't believe Mao was so bad. I hope she can get it together for the rest of the season. When was the last time we saw a world champion have a meltdown like that?! Only Carolina and Rachael were even close to good. I like that Rachael's trying to show more attitude, but she was doing the same cutesy movements in the LP as in the SP, and I thought the themes were totally different. The bubbly looks didn't exactly go with 'Slaughter on Tenth Avenue' (the music). CBC didn't show some, such as Ashley and Caroline, so no comment on them.

  3. #108
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Rachael may be capable of jumping better than Carolina, but Caro is the far superior skater and spinner, and she was rewarded for that! Flatt does not skate with Kostner's speed, musicality, extended lines, nor her command of edges.
    Caro is not a "far superior" spinner. She is marginally better. Her spins often lose centering, they never are especially fast, and a couple of her positions are no better than Flatt's.

    Kostner's program did not display superior musicality for me. Speed and edges, yes, but I did not see any interesting interpretation of the music. Even her speed wasn't that great either, considering she came to a complete halt on the landing of almost every jump in the program. And just like in the SP, the ending to her LP is completely unsatisfying.

    I'm all for judges separating skaters by huge gaps with the PCS, but Kostner's 7-point lead over Flatt was not deserved here with the performance she gave. Rachael Flatt deserved to win the competition. LOL, and what an awful competition it was.

    Quote Originally Posted by silverlake22 View Post
    Two of Rachael's triples were under-rotated, one flip and one lutz, so she would have won the LP by a larger margin had she gotten full credit for those jumps.
    The tech callers continue to be bad at their jobs. Rachael's Lutz and Flip should not have been downgraded. I'm extremely confused why Rachael's Flips suddenly started getting downgraded at the Olympics and have continued to since then.

    What should be getting downgraded, and what didn't get downgraded, is Rachael's 3Toe in combination. Rachael's 3-3's (2Axel-3Toe in this this case) keep getting ratified even though she ALWAYS cheats them (look at how far she pre-rotates on the ice) but then her other sufficiently rotated jumps get hit with downgrades? Really dumb.

    Carolina Kostner also received an unfair downgrade on her second 3Loop. That jump shouldn't have been downgraded, it was rotated enough, the problem was that she landed on the INSIDE edge of the blade and it caused the landing to turn and scratch on the ice. Her second 3Sal was also landed on the inside edge, causing the same problem (the rotation on that jump was sketchier than on her 3Loop that got downgraded, FYI).

    ----

    So to sum up this Ladies event:

    *The skating was terrible.

    *The tech caller was bad and there continues to be a need for specific rules that define the rotation of jumps. The exact point they leave the ice needs to be taken into account.

    *The new -GOE values need to be fixed, as I've said ever since they came out. Jumps with mistakes (aside from the mistake of underrotation) are getting MORE credit than than used to, which is not good for the sport because CoP was already was too lenient with imposing deductions for mistakes (other than underrotation, which used to be overpenalized).

    *Carolina Kostner was incredibly gifted in the Program Component scores for a messy performance and lackluster program.
    Last edited by Blades of Passion; 10-23-2010 at 06:47 PM.

  4. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post

    So to sum up this Ladies event:

    *The skating was terrible.

    *The tech caller was bad and there continues to be a need for specific rules that define the rotation of jumps. The exact point they leave the ice needs to be taken into account.

    *The new -GOE values need to be fixed, as I've said ever since they came out. Jumps with mistakes (aside from the mistake of underrotation) are getting MORE credit than than used to when CoP already was too lenient with imposing deductions for mistakes (other than underrotation, which used to be overpenalized).
    .
    I agree with your points except i am a little confused for the tech caller one. If you start counting the exact point you take off on the ice, possibly no one will get credit for salchows and loops because you need that half turn on the ice to jump the jump don't you? I'm sorry if I am wrong and please do correct me.

  5. #110
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    All jumps can pre-rotate 1/2 of a turn (counting the toepick foot for toe jumps). It's going further than that when it becomes a cheat. The other problem is that some skaters pre-rotate very little on their jumps and then if they come down a little short on the landing, the jump gets downgraded even though they rotated more in the air than other skaters who pre-rotate a lot on the ice before actually getting into the air.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    The thing about Rachael's skating, is that even when she's clean, her skating is hardly inspiring. Her free skate choreography and her presentation of it were just not good. She came off as plodding and slow. She landed the jumps, but they weren't of great quality. Her spins aren't good. She has no wow factor. Additionally, she's styled all wrong.

    It's harsh, but this is figure skating. Things like line, musicality, and wow factor matter, as well they should. You need to impress the judges and she doesn't.

    Kurt Browning called her skating "pedestrian" and I couldn't agree more.
    I bet Kurt Browning would have been thrilled if Diane Szmiett had skated HALF as well as Rachael. Half of the field had a FS score higher than Szmiett's TOTAL score.

  7. #112
    Thank God for Stephane Lambiel and Matt Savoie! shine's Avatar
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    ^Or maybe Kurt didn't really give a damn about how Szmiett did?
    Yet another sad attempt by you to put down yet another Canadian skater. Even one that people haven't even really talked about.

  8. #113
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ Still, Rachael clobbered the World Champion, held her own with the European champion, outpointed this year's new kid on the block, beat the Finnish beauty and the Georgia peach, held off two of her rivals for the U.S. championship, and put herself in good position to make the Grand Prix finals.

    A good weekend's work for the first competition of the season. :
    Keep repeating it and maybe you will actually believe it. The European champion, skating injured and without her best jumps handily beat your favorite.
    Geez, you are grasping at straws. All the comments you made back to me about Rachael sound false.

    It was one thing when the Asian Ladies were beating the American champion - now the Euro girls are too.

    And also junior skaters beat Rachael this summer. Please explain to me again how this is good for US Skating?

  9. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    keep repeating it and maybe you will actually believe it. The european champion, skating injured and without her best jumps handily beat your favorite.
    Geez, you are grasping at straws. All the comments you made back to me about rachael sound false.

    it was one thing when the asian ladies were beating the american champion - now the euro girls are too.

    and also junior skaters beat rachael this summer. Please explain to me again how this is good for us skating?
    huh?

  10. #115
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    huh?
    Just the facts , jack.

  11. #116
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    ... nevermind. I don't get why Mathman's optimism has inspired such hositility, though.

  12. #117
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    Well, it is telling that Kostner edged Rachel with a very old school program (I mean in terms of content) when Rachel actually completed more difficult jumps. The unfortunate thing about Rachel is that her issues are more in the intangible aspects of skating: aesthetics and style. She just doesn't have a style. She lacks the grace of the Asian skaters nor does she have power/attitude of skater like Irina. There's just nothing exciting about her skating. Even if she rotate all of her jumps, the judges will still be more willing to give a skater like Kostner the gold if she skates a decent performance.

  13. #118
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    ... nevermind. I don't get why Mathman's optimism has inspired such hositility, though.
    Not hostilty - just saying mathman is being nice - but not very realisitic.
    The "Asian" comment - not meant in any other way than to say how good their Lady skaters are. But at the moment, between Caro and Laura it feels like US Ladies have dropped behind the Euro Ladies.

    I don't see any reason to celebrate medocrity the way mathman does.

  14. #119
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Keep repeating it and maybe you will actually believe it.
    It's a competition. Carolina did the best. Rachael did the second best. Good for them.

    It is better to get second than to get third, like our new favorite wunderkind, Kanako, did. (But good on her, in her senior international debut!)

    It is better to get second than to get fourth, like Kiira. Or fifth like Ashley. Or eighth like Mao.

    It is not Rachael's burden to "save figure skating in the U.S." All she has to do is try her best and let the chips fall as they may.

  15. #120
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Is it just me, or does it seem like the writing is on the wall for Rachael Flatt? I mean, this was arguably the WORST ladies competition in recent memory, and she still couldn't win, despite skating clean in both programs. You can argue about questionable downgrades, but it seems to me that the judges just don't like her. She didn't lose on the technical side.

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