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Thread: Ladies - LP

  1. #121
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    NHK Competition confirmed...NO SUPRISE and FOLLOWINGS.

    1. SUPER CLASS...Yu-na Kim...only Yu-na can beat herself.
    2. EXCELLENT CLASS...Mao Asada...only Mao can challenge Yu-na for GOLD.
    3. VERY GOOD CLASS...Joannie Rochette, Miki Ando...can challenge Mao for SILVER

    4. GOOD CLASS...Rachael Flatt, Laura Lepisto, Mirai Nagasu, Ashley Wagner, Kanako Murakami...can get rare chances for BRONZE.
    5. REST

    Really heart breaking to see SAD face of Mao...but she'll come back...Mao has plenty of RAW MATERIALS to re-build her jumps.

  2. #122
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    Well, that was a mostly disastrous event. I can't believe Mao was so bad. I hope she can get it together for the rest of the season. When was the last time we saw a world champion have a meltdown like that?!
    uh, a few weeks ago at the Japan Open actually.

  3. #123
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    It's a competition. Carolina did the best. Rachael did the second best. Good for them.

    It is better to get second than to get third, like our new favorite wunderkind, Kanako, did. (But good on her, in her senior international debut!)

    It is better to get second than to get fourth, like Kiira. Or fifth like Ashley. Or eighth like Mao.

    It is not Rachael's burden to "save figure skating in the U.S." All she has to do is try her best and let the chips fall as they may.
    There comes a time when the US champion needs to win or we slip forever to second or third rate status. It is good that we have Mirai carrying our banner now because she is a skater who excites fans and shows the potential to bring US Skating back.

    I respectfully disagree with everything you said math. Not meant to be hostile - just tired of seeing such uninspired, dull skating from the US Ladies. If Mirai skates poorly next month I will feel the same way. And Ashley and Caroline were even more disappointing than Rachael. At least she hit most of her jumps - but it still was not a very inspiring performance.

    Your comment that Rachael walloped the World Champion is ridiculous.
    Last edited by janetfan; 10-23-2010 at 07:43 PM.

  4. #124
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by persimmon
    Is it just me, or does it seem like the writing is on the wall for Rachael Flatt? I mean, this was arguably the WORST ladies competition in recent memory, and she still couldn't win, despite skating clean in both programs. You can argue about questionable downgrades, but it seems to me that the judges just don't like her...
    The judges don't dislike her. The judges gave Rachael the marks she earned. Her tech scores were higher than anyone else's because she did the best job on the technical elements. Her program component scores were lower than the scores of some of the others because some of the others had better skating skills, presentation, choreography and interpretation.

    I do not see anything controversial or even noteworthy in the scoring of this competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Your comment that Rachael walloped the World Champion is ridiculous.
    Flatt 161.04

    Asada 133.40

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Flatt 161.04

    Asada 133.40
    Yes, now I see why you are the "mathman."
    Further comments withheld in the name of civility.

    Here is something to consider - I am renewing my IN subscription so I can see Jeremy skate tonight.
    And also to see Mirai in a couple of weeks. I have no idea if they we will win and don't base being a fan on results only. But to be honest - style is very big with me. That is why I like skating.
    Last edited by janetfan; 10-24-2010 at 07:08 AM.

  6. #126
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Flatt 161.04

    Asada 133.40
    I think what janetfan is getting at is that Mao walloped herself. No way in the world would Rachael be above Mao if Mao skated the way she is capable of. I think the only skaters capable of beating Mao in good form are Yu-Na and Joannie.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    The judges don't dislike her. The judges gave Rachael the marks she earned. Her tech scores were higher than anyone else's because she did the best job on the technical elements. Her program component scores were lower than the scores of some of the others because some of the others had better skating skills, presentation, choreography and interpretation.

    I do not see anything controversial or even noteworthy in the scoring of this competition.



    Flatt 161.04

    Asada 133.40
    Rachael Flatt is the WINNER of NHK Trophey...No Doubt about it...PCS always fluctuates depending on competitions.
    TES winner is the REAL WINNER...when it is won by more than 5 points.
    Flatt won TES by WIDE MARGIN !

  8. #128
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    Somehow I get this strange impression that people who yell out and demand grace and maturity in the skating styles of certain skaters tend to write comments that themselves show little grace or maturity in their attitudes.

  9. #129
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r
    I think what janetfan is getting at is that Mao walloped herself. No way in the world would Rachael be above Mao if Mao skated the way she is capable of. I think the only skaters capable of beating Mao in good form are Yu-Na and Joannie.
    I guess my point is, in an athletic competition you can't go by woulda coulda shoulda. Mao is a better skater than Rachael. But this time Rachael skated better than Mao.

    Michigan State (8-0) 35, Northwestern 27.
    Last edited by Mathman; 10-23-2010 at 08:18 PM.

  10. #130
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    I would like to say that I'm stilling going to medal at worlds.

  11. #131
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkatingAnalyst View Post
    ...PCS always fluctuates depending on competitions.

    TES winner is the REAL WINNER...when it is won by more than 5 points.
    Oh, I don't agree with that at all. Yes, judges' evaluations can vary from competition to competition and from judge to judge. But some skaters really do skate faster and with more grace than others. Some have deep, secure edges and a command of the idiom of the sport. Some plan their programs with an ear to the requirements of the music. Some are able to make an emotional connection with the audience.

    Performance art and sport all rolled into one.

    Quote Originally Posted by jovani2293 View Post
    I would like to say that I'm stilling going to medal at worlds.
    OK, let me guess that what you meant to say was, "I'm still betting that Mao Asada will medal at Worlds."

    Me, too.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Oh, I don't agree with that at all. Yes, judges' evaluations can vary from competition to competition and from judge to judge. But some skaters really do skate faster and with more grace than others. Some have deep, secure edges and a command of the idiom of the sport. Some plan their programs with an ear to the requirements of the music. Some are able to make an emotional connection with the audience.

    Performance art and sport all rolled into one.
    Some people think like you.
    Some don't.
    I'm...AVERAGE.

    I don't think Carolina is 8 points more skilled or beautiful than Rachael. RACHAEL WON !!!

  13. #133
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    Here is something to consider - I am renewing my IN subscription so I can see Jeremy skate tonight.

    And also to see Mirai in a couple of weeks. I have no idea if they we will win and don't base being a fan on results only. But to be honest - style is very big with me. That is why I like skating.
    I totally agree with that sentiment.

    The sentiment that I do not agree with is: Rachael Flatt's skating is not as pleasing to me as is the skating of some of the other ladies. Therefore Rachael should shoot herself forthwith and stop embarrassing the flag of the United States.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by persimmon View Post
    Is it just me, or does it seem like the writing is on the wall for Rachael Flatt? I mean, this was arguably the WORST ladies competition in recent memory, and she still couldn't win, despite skating clean in both programs. You can argue about questionable downgrades, but it seems to me that the judges just don't like her. She didn't lose on the technical side.
    No, it's not just you. That was my point in my past post. Her future in the sport is limited unless she makes drastic changes. At this point, consistency is her only asset. It's very telling when the judges prefer a messy skate from someone who didn't even attempt anything beyond a 3Lo to your mostly clean skate. I don't think she'll go much further, and if she ever wins something big, it'll be because the rest of the field bombed, just like here. She was deservedly second here, but it was it good skating? Hardly.

    She needs to revamp her whole image - she's packaged completely wrong - and work on her speed, presentation, and PCS. Her skating has not improved at all during the off season. The judges were giving her a hint all of last season; her team hasn't taken it.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    ^ Still, Rachael clobbered the World Champion, held her own with the European champion, outpointed this year's new kid on the block, beat the Finnish beauty and the Georgia peach, held off two of her rivals for the U.S. championship, and put herself in good position to make the Grand Prix finals.

    A good weekend's work for the first competition of the season. :
    ITA. I've just come to accept that European ladies get away with doing less. And out of fairness to Carolina, she has medaled at Worlds and won/medaled at Europeans multiple times, so I think it's okay she got PCS of 59. I mean, 59 for PCS in the FS is good but it's not over the top amazing, further if Mao can get PCS of 56 for popping 5 of her 7 jumping passes, I think it's okay for Carolina to get 59 for the performance she put out. To me Rachael just seemed like she wasn't that used to her program yet, so I get why her PCS were lower, she didn't fully get into the choreography and the program seemed empty at points. But she can work on that and hopefully her PCS will go up at the next competition.

    About people saying the writing is on the wall for Rachael, time and again she manages to outdo her competitors apart from Mirai last season. If Ashley and Alissa are better than Rachael then how come she does better than both of them at most competitions? You can blame consistency, but figure skating is a competitive sport, in a sense consistency is as important as spinning or flexibility or whatnot. What Rachael has is something a lot of the time you just can't teach, and that's the ability to compete. Alissa certainly doesn't have it and Ashley doesn't seem to be able to use it when she needs it most. Other skaters who do have this quality that come to mind are Amanda Dobbs and Evan Lysacek, they might not be the best, but they get the job done. I mean, a lot of people were upset when Evan won Olympic Gold, but you know what, yeah, Takahashi, Lambiel, Abbott and even Joubert and Verner may be better than Evan, but they always make mistakes and so Evan is the Olympic Champion and the others aren't.

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