Overall Opinions of NHK 2010 | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Overall Opinions of NHK 2010

Joined
Jul 11, 2003
Even if you don't like Takahashi's style, I can't see how you can say he doesn't present the programs well.

But I suppose we're all entitled to our views.
Indeed we are as long as they do not obliterate facts.

As for Takahashi and for that matter, Charlie White, I do not enjoy watching the push they give to get one's attention. I know it's been the winning style for many years. Think Plushenko. But for my own taste, I prefer a performer to bring me into his program. Oversell does not get to me unless there is clear reason for it. (not the medal, but the musical nuances).

I don't expect fans to agree with me about this, but I do consider Takahashi a super Tech skater.
 
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Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
I get Joe's point about Daisuke not taking the time to draw you in. His style is not subtle, that is for sure. It's a good point. But I could watch his foot sequences all day. For all the talk about COP forcing skaters to frantic footwork sequences with ugly upper body movements have nothing to do with anything ... Daisuke makes all look so natural, like it was supposed to be like this all along. He just relishes dancing on ice like no other skater I've seen.

I also think it is true what Medusa says that Jeremy's SP needs to be toned down. I hate it when he does that stupid thing with his hands passing over his face. Ick. However, I liked the program overall very much. I think he has worked hard to project better and maybe that is why it's a bit over the top. And his costume too. Sigh.:disapp:

Anyway, Jeremy and Daisuke are both the kind of skaters I like to watch even when they make mistakes. I hope they both get to shine this year with Evan and Plushenko both out of the picture, for now anyway.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
The splatfest that was the Ladies is the revenge for the good Olympic competition. We will have to suffer through it for the next 4 years, I am sure...
So what will I get as a treat for the men Oly competition I survived? :)Please come to TEB so we can gossip:biggrin:
And you didnt like Abott's Lp and I did love it? I m worried now.:unsure:
I wish Dai had chosen the Stephane's sp, the magical creature that was chasing butterflies:)
My résumé of NHk beside abott's lp is that I enjoyed Schultheiss and Shawyer's Lp, Kanako sp was pure joy, probably Mao Lp, Kostner Lp and her sp dress, Kira Lp, Shibutanis and baby Russians, havent watched pairs, the biggest highlight is Hanyu's great debut, by the way I keep looping the triple axel of his sp, I cant get over it:love:
 
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emma

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 28, 2004
Indeed we are as long as they do not obliterate facts.

As for Takahashi and for that matter, Charlie White, I do not enjoy watching the push they give to get one's attention. I know it's been the winning style for many years. Think Plushenko. But for my own taste, I prefer a performer to bring me into his program. Oversell does not get to me unless there is clear reason for it. (not the medal, but the musical nuances).

I don't expect fans to agree with me about this, but I do consider Takahashi a super Tech skater.


good to see you back!!! I agree that Takahashi is a super tech skater and admit that I totally admire that. I do get taken in by the "sell" of both takhashi and white, so I admit my bias here. But, what I think Taka has in spades, in addition to 'sell', is great body movement from the the head, to the neck, shoulders etc....and as I've said before, by far the best hands in the business.

That said, I was not thrilled with the LP (although I saw it from youtube) and agree with an earlier poster that it is starting to feel like the same theme over and over. Yet, I will watch with adoration every time he skates....
 

colleen o'neill

Medalist
Joined
Nov 3, 2006
:)It's interesting, the different ways we all see these things..

I don't feel that either Daisuke or Charlie are particularly " selling' their programs.. So while I can see where Joe is coming from, and agree with the point he's making to some degree.. ( e.g. - I love it when a skater can draw me into a program a la V/M or Abbot in his SP last year ,and many of his programs, actually )..

To me, neither of Joe's examples truly represent 'sell'. I think Charlie really throws himself into the program and tries to express it to his fullest ability , but I never feel he's playing directly to the audience. It never feels calculated, or gimmicky to me... And with Dai, I feel this goes to a whole other level. Oh, I'm sure by now, he's fully aware of how the audience reacts to him, but I feel there's a genuine connection there. I feel he fully inhabits his music and his program, and there's an opening up and genuine giving out..a sharing of his experience of skating the program with the audience.

To me , Plushy 'sells' , Joubert 'sells' ( but this year may go beyond that a bit..wonder of wonders). Amodio 'sells', Fernandez "sells'. Both of these , I suspect, are capable of more ...but we won't see it until they have programs that don't rely so heavily on gimmicks and sexual ( can I say that ? )posturing.
 

FTnoona

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 26, 2009
the biggest highlight is Hanyu's great debut, by the way I keep looping the triple axel of his sp, I cant get over it:love:

I know right! It was just b-e-a-utiful! I would also loop the quad he did in his FS. I just wished that the camera got a better angle of his quad. After watching NHK I feel disappointed about the ladies field. So many falls... I really liked Murakami's SP though. It was upbeat and fun. I wished that Takahashi used that Amelie program for his SP it was really beautiful or that one exhibition program he had last year. In my opinion in his exhibition programs he doesn't "push" to get the one's attention, he pulls you in :D
 

blue_idealist

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 25, 2006
I see what people mean about Daisuke selling the programs (what about Amodio, for that matter?) but not Charlie. He doesn't seem to 'sell' it more than anyone else does. I think Jeremy's one that tends to draw you in instead of 'selling' though.
 

MFarone

Final Flight
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Country
United-States
Hi Joe, welcome back. Its nice to see you posting.

I am also partial to skaters who draw me into the program. Matt Savoie, particularly in 2005 and 2006, channeled the music. To me, he became the music. I feel Jeremy Abbott has that same quality...not yet to the extent that Matt had...but more every year.

I also like Dai - his footwork is really great. He is just much more extroverted and sells the program a lot more IMHO. I am just partial to more introverted skaters.
 

austrian_waltz

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 26, 2010
my thoughts:

Davis and White: Technically they are SUPERB. I still can't get over their twizzles! But I find their programs this year to be lackluster. They don't evoke the joy of last year's Bollywood OD, the excitement of the Phantom FD, or the beauty of the Samson et Delilah FD. I wasn't left with the awestruck feeling I usually am. About Charlie as a presenter, he tries, but I don't get the genuine feel. What is missing is the connection between Meryl and Charlie. They lack the intensity of V/M. That is what this year's FD really needs. That FD would be beautiful with some great romantic tension. They just need it for 7 minutes.

Shibs: Look incredible this year. Definite potential for the World Team. I think Nats in going to be thrilling!

Abbott: I like the long, but he is trying to hard in the sp. He doesn't need all the motions - they just distract from his skating.

Rachael: Did anyone else notice she wore the same dress in two colors? That bugs me...

Weaver/Poje: their sd is my favorite thus far. I see great improvement and would LOVE to see them on the world team

C/L: need more refinement.

I'm not on the Daisuke train either. yeah, he's great, but he just doesnt draw me in.
 

Layfan

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 5, 2009
So what will I get as a treat for the men Oly competition I survived? :)Please come to TEB so we can gossip:biggrin:
And you didnt like Abott's Lp and I did love it? I m worried now.:unsure:
I wish Dai had chosen the Stephane's sp, the magical creature that was chasing butterflies:)
My résumé of NHk beside abott's lp is that I enjoyed Schultheiss and Shawyer's Lp, Kanako sp was pure joy, probably Mao Lp, Kostner Lp and her sp dress, Kira Lp, Shibutanis and baby Russians, havent watched pairs, the biggest highlight is Hanyu's great debut, by the way I keep looping the triple axel of his sp, I cant get over it:love:

Is that the one he showed at the Japan Open? I thought it included too many of Stephane's favorite's spins. Dai is not the greatest spinner and he couldn't pull many of them off.
 

goldenpleasures

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 1, 2006
I'm not on the Daisuke train either. yeah, he's great, but he just doesnt draw me in.

I guess no great skater is ever going to win everyone over. We all look for and find different things. It's almost sacrilege to say it on this board, but I found Michelle Kwan rather boring, especially in the second half of her career.

NHK was a good start for the men, but very disappointing from the ladies. I do like Carolina's programs though, and hope she'll be able to get the lutz and flip back soon. Mao? I just don't know......
 
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janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
yes trying to find out which lady will stay on her feet does add a whole lot of "excitement" *yawn* thank God for the three other disiplines.

We have different feelings about it. I prefer to watch the Ladies over Dance simply because I almost always know who will win the Dance. Sometimes bungee chords are needed .....beyond a yawn.... for the politics of Dance to get the podium the way they want it.
I prefer a few splats over that anyday.
 
Joined
Jul 11, 2003
My third try at signing in and losing the draft of a post.

First of all I would like to thank so many posters for the 'welcome back'. It made my day.

As to Hanyu, one should rewatch his skate from IN. The young man shown incredible talents at synchonizing all the elements with effortless flow. The arms, legs, the whole body, the speeds of which are appropriate.
Forget the tricks, although they are also very good. His Blade to Ice is perfect.

I suspect we will be talking about Amodio and Hanyu by 2013 Sochi, anyone?
 
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shine

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 27, 2003
Takahashi skated very well, but I am underwhelmed with his program choices. I will still enjoy watching him fly over the ice and enchant the ladies. But he now has 3 Latin dances in a row (SP last season, SP and LP this season), that is unoriginal and also rather dumb in my opinion. Yes, he makes this style work - but I think that people are bound to be disappointed when a skater follows up a brilliant program (the last season's Tango SP) with two programs that have a similar style but simply cannot attain the same status. It's like Lambiel's Tango program after Lambiel's Tango SP (Carne Cruda) and his Flamenco LP.
Meh, I don't agree with comparing Takahashi's LP this year to Lambiel's Otono Porteno. Lambie's Tango was IMO another choreographic masterpiece, albeit probably not having the same immediate effect on people as his Flamenco. And he had very authentic movements that were true to the dance and choreography. I think in retrospect I actually like the tango more than the flamenco because the choreography was more intricate and there are more things for me to "discover". I particularly love the performances from shows in Japan and Korea. Takahashi's LP OTOH, IMO just looks recycled and makes me feel like I've seen it before. The guy dances well, no doubt, but I think his expression is somewhat limited.
 
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Medusa

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 6, 2007
I am not comparing the programs quality wise, I thought Lambiel's Tango to be very creative and interesting - but I still think that the skaters don't do themselves a favour when they continue to choose the same style over and over again, especially when they are actually known for their artistic merit and their versatility. Joubert always chooses similar music, it's what he does. Same goes for some quieter skaters who tend to stay with one specific style of music, or at least style of skating, e.g. Chan or Plushenko. But Lambiel and Takahashi are known for their ability to rock the different styles, from Hip-Hop Swan Lake to whimsical to jazzy to purely classical - and for Takahashi to go with the Latin theme all the way now, it seems like such a soft choice.

At the end of the day I think that vesatility is very important - that's why I think that Takahashi and Abbott are equally great skaters, even if one of them is extrovert and selling his skating as if his life depends on it - and the other a little more introvert. I would fall asleep if we had 20 Abbotts skate the freeskate at Worlds, just like I would be annoyed and completely exhausted by 20 Takahashis. Still no excuse for the atrocity of Amodio's long program though. My desire for diversity has its limits.
 
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treeloving

Medalist
Joined
Feb 17, 2010
.

I suspect we will be talking about Amodio and Hanyu by 2013 Sochi, anyone?

In my opinion, Hanyu and Han Yan in 2016-2017 (they even use the same music in FS this year.)

Hope Hanyu will get the PSC he deserves soon, I love his interpretation and body expression more than any skater completing now.
 

janetfan

Match Penalty
Joined
May 15, 2009
Still no excuse for the atrocity of Amodio's long program though. My desire for diversity has its limits.

Whole post :agree: and especially the last part.

Welcome back Medusa, also welcome back Joe and welcome back Kotter. :)
 

sillylionlove

Medalist
Joined
Oct 27, 2006
Welcome back Joe.

My impressions of NHK...I will sum it up in one sentence...this season is totally up for grabs.

It's not even worth making any predictions.
 

seniorita

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2008
Still no excuse for the atrocity of Amodio's long program though. My desire for diversity has its limits.
lol good one. Isnt Verner having a MJ also?I m lookong forward to seeing it, if it has bits of his exhibition it will be awesome!
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
1. I don't know why I responded to Amodio's long program that way I did. Mostly, I don't drink the milkshake on programs that are designed to showcase charisma/attitude more than actual skating skills, but I really loved watching Amodio. Wierd.

2. Interesting to see Dai and Charlie grouped together like this (accidentally, but still). Dai skates as an expression of his artistry, in my mind. Because that artistry is linked with a dynamite sense of entertainment and dynamic athleticism, it's exceedingly pleasurable for me. He also displays an incredible amount of sex appeal. I see enough differences between his SP and his Tango from last season (that one was more frenetic, this languid - especially that beginning) to make both appeal to me, though I think "Tango" made "La Strada" better and vice-versa. Together they made Takahashi's 2009/10 season quite memorable.

Charlie - he skates as an expression of his athleticism. I don't mean to diminish him in any way - the fact is that the level of athletic ability he displays is jawdropping. The hands-free lift from last season, of course, the twizzles etc. But I often see him struggling a little bit with the artistic side of things. It's particularly noteworthy in the step sequences (I'm think the last step sequence of the FD at the Olympics - you can read the concentration on his and Meryl's face as their driving those edges into the ice) - though full disclosure time, I've seen that FD 30-40 times now.

I have to admit a great deal of disappointment with janetfan's dismissal of ice dance. Right now, the field in ice dance (at NHK) displayed a range of artistic ability and athleticism, something I think the ladies' really lack. If you watch for the beauty of the sport, it's where its at right now. Additionally, complaining about politics seems unfair - I don't think you can argue this podium was the consequence of politics any more than you can argue that the ladies' podium was. But frankly, all I have of the domination of the ladies in terms of discussion is a gendered reading of the whole thing, which is even more disappointing.
 
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