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Thread: Overall Opinions of NHK 2010

  1. #16
    Banned janetfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    [url=http://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?32881-Predictions&p=521516&viewfull=1#post521516]My predictions[/url]

    I follow dance and this podium isn't reflective of reputations. No way do Weaver/Poje have the reputation of C/L, at the very least. D/W are simply that much better.

    Another way of saying it: imagine if solid but not perfect Kim faced this field instead of Asada. That's where D/W are at right now.
    I liked your predictions which I did read before I wrote the previous post.
    I agree and know that at times a singles skater can be pretty dominant.
    The difference is that in Dance it is always that way. We alway know who will win and it is not as hard to guess the podium.

    My point was addressing why "Ladies" may have more interest than Men.
    The Ladies just seem far less predictable and I think that adds a little excitement.
    Yuna won the Olympics but not Worlds. Mao won Worlds but was a non-factor at NHK. Dai appears unbeatable if he stays on his feet and even if doesn't.

    I can't imagine how poorly D/W would have to skate to miss a Dance podium. As I "predicted" they will remain unbeatable for the time being. There are reasons for that - basically Dance is just a different discipline than singles.

    Just saying upsets and topsy-turvy results can creat interest which seems more common in the Ladies events than the other discipines.

    When I say I have no idea who will make the Ladies podium at SC I really mean it. So I will watch it with a little more interest and probably comment about it more.
    Last edited by janetfan; 10-25-2010 at 10:10 AM.

  2. #17
    and... World Peace! Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janetfan View Post
    My point was addressing why "Ladies" may have more interest than Men.
    The Ladies just seem far less predictable and I think that adds a little excitement.
    yes trying to find out which lady will stay on her feet does add a whole lot of "excitement" *yawn* thank God for the three other disiplines.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    I'm not all that on Takahashi's bandwagon, don't see him as a good presenter.
    Even if you don't like Takahashi's style, I can't see how you can say he doesn't present the programs well.

    But I suppose we're all entitled to our views.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    1. That no matter how good the men are, we're more interested in the ladies
    So bizarre. The men were quite good. Many early season jitters, but considering that, it was a respectable skate with some thrilling highlights. But the women's event, which by all rights was a semi-disaster, has 50% more posts (23 pages to the men's 15) at this point. I don't get it.

    3. Up from juniors with a point to make
    I/K: In context, this was a breathtaking debut. They came in 4th at their first senior GP. They've been skating together LESS THAN TWO YEARS. Keep that in mind. Davis/White had nearly ten when they made their senior debut. V/M had 9. I know people had stratospheric expectations, but this is a good result.

    Murakami and Hanyu: She medalled in her senior debut. He had two rock solid skates that foretells a good future.

    Shibutanis: The growth spurt really did wonders. They've got an old fashioned elegance ot them that is very appealing.

    Takahashi/Tran: They hung on. Can we expect to see them at senior worlds this year? It's not like Japan has any other pairs teams. I have to admit I don't like the junior-senior flip flop (it's okay to go to one event for experience, but competing on both circuits seems unecessarily taxing)

    5. The number two dance spot in the USA just became VERY interesting
    Okay, so it was supposed to be D/W, S/B, C/Z and then the Shibs vs the Hubbells for spot four. But S/B are out due to injury (hopefully not career ending, because I was looking forward to seeing their An American in Paris routine) and the Shibs just did better on the senior GP than the Hubbells have come close to doing (and their scores here are ten points clear of the Hubbells at Finlandia, fwiw). It'll be neat to see if C/Z can medal at Skate Canada (which, without V/M, has a wide open race for bronze, with four teams in the hunt, imo). I expect Nationals to be a nail-biter, even with three spots.
    It's the same thing with artistic gymnastics! We're all about the ladiezzz, it's a common layman perception since this is an "artistic" sport. To be truthful though, I'm far more interested in dance than singles or pairs. I have seen way too many splatfests and have learnt not to be so emotionally invested.

    I'm excited with the next crop of rising stars; They've got tremendous potential! Elena is a total Russian diva in the making; I/K just need to make sure they hit the levels and up the tech ante. The Shibutanis, OTOH, remind me very much of V/M in their skating. Very soft, lyrical, musical, effortless skating with gorgeous lifts and edging. ITA about the old-school, ballroom-ish elegance.

    I'm a bit worried about Murakami, who has similar technical issues as Mao. I hope she corrects that flutz before it comes back to hurt her. Her enthusiasm is infectious though; it's nice to see a skater who actually goes out there and has fun. Hanyu just needs to build consistency, he's a solid skater.

    Janetfan, I think the main reason why Dance standings tend to be somewhat more predictable is simply because the dancers tend to be more consistent. For starters, you rarely see dancers bombing an entire programme, which tends to happen a fair bit with headcases in singles and pairs. Even when dancers do make mistakes, they tend to be relatively minor (and typically on the twizzles) and less costly compared to a fall or popped jump.

    That's also the reason why I like watching dance far more than the other disciplines; it's less nerve-wracking (I don't spend every second praying skaters don't fall), the programmes can be wildly entertaining, and the level of performance tends to be good, if not at least decent!

    At any rate, D/W are well on their way to world domination, if they stay injury and error free. I love V/M but I will be very surprised if they can top D/W this year after Tessa's surgery. The standard of the top two teams is such that there's a huge gulf between them and the 3rd ranked team. They're just so much better technically, assuming everyone performs up to standard, that they can afford to make mistakes, short of bombing royally. No such thing for the other teams though; look at what happened to Cappellini/ Lanotte. Faiella/ Scali v Pechalat/ Bourzat will be interesting to see as well, as will be US Nationals (GO SHIBS!!!) It's not THAT predictable!

    Now excuse me as I bleach my brain to remove the horrible memories of the splatfest that was the Ladies ...

  5. #20
    L'art pour l'art Medusa's Avatar
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    The splatfest that was the Ladies is the revenge for the good Olympic competition. We will have to suffer through it for the next 4 years, I am sure...

    I thought that Murakami is adorable, I would prefer it if she had a more stretched leg during her spins and if she didn't fall all over the place. Kostner's program is decent and I would really love to see it cleanly, securely and with all the Triple jumps.

    The men were pretty good for the beginning of the season. There is unfortunately no excuse for Amodio's long program. The short is alright, I am happy that Morosov makes him do a 3Lz-3T in the short program and not that old 3S-3T. Overall Florent's jumps looked very good - but Morosov is known to have helped a skater here and there with consistency. But there is still no excuse for that sorry excuse of a long program.

    Takahashi skated very well, but I am underwhelmed with his program choices. I will still enjoy watching him fly over the ice and enchant the ladies. But he now has 3 Latin dances in a row (SP last season, SP and LP this season), that is unoriginal and also rather dumb in my opinion. Yes, he makes this style work - but I think that people are bound to be disappointed when a skater follows up a brilliant program (the last season's Tango SP) with two programs that have a similar style but simply cannot attain the same status. It's like Lambiel's Tango program after Lambiel's Tango SP (Carne Cruda) and his Flamenco LP.

    Abbott's short is simply too busy for my taste. I get that the hand movements are authentic but it just scares me. The long program is also not to my taste, I don't get the story, the music is rather bland and not worthy of a skater like Abbott.

    On a more positive note - Hanyu is adorable with hopefully a great future and Kevin had a good jumping day once again.

  6. #21
    Custom Title Joesitz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldenpleasures View Post
    Even if you don't like Takahashi's style, I can't see how you can say he doesn't present the programs well.

    But I suppose we're all entitled to our views.
    Indeed we are as long as they do not obliterate facts.

    As for Takahashi and for that matter, Charlie White, I do not enjoy watching the push they give to get one's attention. I know it's been the winning style for many years. Think Plushenko. But for my own taste, I prefer a performer to bring me into his program. Oversell does not get to me unless there is clear reason for it. (not the medal, but the musical nuances).

    I don't expect fans to agree with me about this, but I do consider Takahashi a super Tech skater.
    Last edited by Joesitz; 10-25-2010 at 05:25 PM.

  7. #22
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    I get Joe's point about Daisuke not taking the time to draw you in. His style is not subtle, that is for sure. It's a good point. But I could watch his foot sequences all day. For all the talk about COP forcing skaters to frantic footwork sequences with ugly upper body movements have nothing to do with anything ... Daisuke makes all look so natural, like it was supposed to be like this all along. He just relishes dancing on ice like no other skater I've seen.

    I also think it is true what Medusa says that Jeremy's SP needs to be toned down. I hate it when he does that stupid thing with his hands passing over his face. Ick. However, I liked the program overall very much. I think he has worked hard to project better and maybe that is why it's a bit over the top. And his costume too. Sigh.

    Anyway, Jeremy and Daisuke are both the kind of skaters I like to watch even when they make mistakes. I hope they both get to shine this year with Evan and Plushenko both out of the picture, for now anyway.

  8. #23
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    The splatfest that was the Ladies is the revenge for the good Olympic competition. We will have to suffer through it for the next 4 years, I am sure...
    So what will I get as a treat for the men Oly competition I survived? Please come to TEB so we can gossip
    And you didnt like Abott's Lp and I did love it? I m worried now.
    I wish Dai had chosen the Stephane's sp, the magical creature that was chasing butterflies
    My résumé of NHk beside abott's lp is that I enjoyed Schultheiss and Shawyer's Lp, Kanako sp was pure joy, probably Mao Lp, Kostner Lp and her sp dress, Kira Lp, Shibutanis and baby Russians, havent watched pairs, the biggest highlight is Hanyu's great debut, by the way I keep looping the triple axel of his sp, I cant get over it
    Last edited by seniorita; 10-25-2010 at 06:13 PM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesitz View Post
    Indeed we are as long as they do not obliterate facts.

    As for Takahashi and for that matter, Charlie White, I do not enjoy watching the push they give to get one's attention. I know it's been the winning style for many years. Think Plushenko. But for my own taste, I prefer a performer to bring me into his program. Oversell does not get to me unless there is clear reason for it. (not the medal, but the musical nuances).

    I don't expect fans to agree with me about this, but I do consider Takahashi a super Tech skater.

    good to see you back!!! I agree that Takahashi is a super tech skater and admit that I totally admire that. I do get taken in by the "sell" of both takhashi and white, so I admit my bias here. But, what I think Taka has in spades, in addition to 'sell', is great body movement from the the head, to the neck, shoulders etc....and as I've said before, by far the best hands in the business.

    That said, I was not thrilled with the LP (although I saw it from youtube) and agree with an earlier poster that it is starting to feel like the same theme over and over. Yet, I will watch with adoration every time he skates....

  10. #25
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    It's interesting, the different ways we all see these things..

    I don't feel that either Daisuke or Charlie are particularly " selling' their programs.. So while I can see where Joe is coming from, and agree with the point he's making to some degree.. ( e.g. - I love it when a skater can draw me into a program a la V/M or Abbot in his SP last year ,and many of his programs, actually )..

    To me, neither of Joe's examples truly represent 'sell'. I think Charlie really throws himself into the program and tries to express it to his fullest ability , but I never feel he's playing directly to the audience. It never feels calculated, or gimmicky to me... And with Dai, I feel this goes to a whole other level. Oh, I'm sure by now, he's fully aware of how the audience reacts to him, but I feel there's a genuine connection there. I feel he fully inhabits his music and his program, and there's an opening up and genuine giving out..a sharing of his experience of skating the program with the audience.

    To me , Plushy 'sells' , Joubert 'sells' ( but this year may go beyond that a bit..wonder of wonders). Amodio 'sells', Fernandez "sells'. Both of these , I suspect, are capable of more ...but we won't see it until they have programs that don't rely so heavily on gimmicks and sexual ( can I say that ? )posturing.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    the biggest highlight is Hanyu's great debut, by the way I keep looping the triple axel of his sp, I cant get over it
    I know right! It was just b-e-a-utiful! I would also loop the quad he did in his FS. I just wished that the camera got a better angle of his quad. After watching NHK I feel disappointed about the ladies field. So many falls... I really liked Murakami's SP though. It was upbeat and fun. I wished that Takahashi used that Amelie program for his SP it was really beautiful or that one exhibition program he had last year. In my opinion in his exhibition programs he doesn't "push" to get the one's attention, he pulls you in :D

  12. #27
    - * - blue_idealist's Avatar
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    I see what people mean about Daisuke selling the programs (what about Amodio, for that matter?) but not Charlie. He doesn't seem to 'sell' it more than anyone else does. I think Jeremy's one that tends to draw you in instead of 'selling' though.

  13. #28
    Custom Title MFarone's Avatar
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    Hi Joe, welcome back. Its nice to see you posting.

    I am also partial to skaters who draw me into the program. Matt Savoie, particularly in 2005 and 2006, channeled the music. To me, he became the music. I feel Jeremy Abbott has that same quality...not yet to the extent that Matt had...but more every year.

    I also like Dai - his footwork is really great. He is just much more extroverted and sells the program a lot more IMHO. I am just partial to more introverted skaters.

  14. #29
    Rinkside
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    my thoughts:

    Davis and White: Technically they are SUPERB. I still can't get over their twizzles! But I find their programs this year to be lackluster. They don't evoke the joy of last year's Bollywood OD, the excitement of the Phantom FD, or the beauty of the Samson et Delilah FD. I wasn't left with the awestruck feeling I usually am. About Charlie as a presenter, he tries, but I don't get the genuine feel. What is missing is the connection between Meryl and Charlie. They lack the intensity of V/M. That is what this year's FD really needs. That FD would be beautiful with some great romantic tension. They just need it for 7 minutes.

    Shibs: Look incredible this year. Definite potential for the World Team. I think Nats in going to be thrilling!

    Abbott: I like the long, but he is trying to hard in the sp. He doesn't need all the motions - they just distract from his skating.

    Rachael: Did anyone else notice she wore the same dress in two colors? That bugs me...

    Weaver/Poje: their sd is my favorite thus far. I see great improvement and would LOVE to see them on the world team

    C/L: need more refinement.

    I'm not on the Daisuke train either. yeah, he's great, but he just doesnt draw me in.

  15. #30
    she takes the audience on her journey of emotions Layfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    So what will I get as a treat for the men Oly competition I survived? Please come to TEB so we can gossip
    And you didnt like Abott's Lp and I did love it? I m worried now.
    I wish Dai had chosen the Stephane's sp, the magical creature that was chasing butterflies
    My résumé of NHk beside abott's lp is that I enjoyed Schultheiss and Shawyer's Lp, Kanako sp was pure joy, probably Mao Lp, Kostner Lp and her sp dress, Kira Lp, Shibutanis and baby Russians, havent watched pairs, the biggest highlight is Hanyu's great debut, by the way I keep looping the triple axel of his sp, I cant get over it
    Is that the one he showed at the Japan Open? I thought it included too many of Stephane's favorite's spins. Dai is not the greatest spinner and he couldn't pull many of them off.

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