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Thread: Virtual Program and Preview Free Dance, Sunday, Oct 31, 12:15 EST

  1. #166
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    Right. And I think the fact that they were Russians is absolutely integral to the level of hate thrown.

  2. #167
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Yeah, but Browning could pull it off. Islam didn't. I saw it and said to my computer monitor "You're not Kurt Browning, take your hands out. It doesn't work and makes you look silly."

    The thing is despite the effortlessness of their lifts, it reads as trying too hard. Their FD at juniors had issues definitely, but they looked like they could have their own identity. Three of four programs (OD last season, SD and FD here) are just too much like V/M. And as a V/M fanbot, no no no no no.

    That score is high but probably fair. I just wanted it to be lower.

    Wow, why such animosity and hostility towards this young and very talented team? Do you really think they knew in the spring/summer of '09 when they were putting their programs together that V&M were aso doing a flamenco OD? Um, NO. They can't help the fact that they both look like V&M in physical appearance.

    Also, Alex Paul has extensive ballet training so of course there's going to be a resemblance to VIrtue in that way. To me, P&I are already doing harder programs/transitions etc than V&M did when they first burst onto the senior scene with Valse Triste.

    I also don't get why you're comparing P&I to Browning. Browning is a singles skater skating skating to Casa --- P&I are ice dancers. Are you saying that Browning is the only skater who should ever skate to Casa?

    Anyway, P&I are very talented and I look forward to watching them in the years to come.
    Last edited by backoutsideedge; 11-02-2010 at 03:08 PM.

  3. #168
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    To Dorispulaski,
    I disagree with you re: P&I's second set of twizzles. I watched both their programs and watched the twizzles in slo-mo and do not think they are doing three-turns. Do you know what three-turns are? P&I are on the flats of their blades doing their twizzles, if they were doing three-turns, they would have been on inside or outside edges.

    I also disagree that Paul should be dressed the same way as Elsa in the movie. A costume like that would look frumpy and fuddy-duddy - Paul is an 18 year old girl. She needs something age approriate and something that is soft and flowing and pretty - to suit her and their program. I would like to see her in a different colour for the FD rather than that pale blue but NOT something like Elsa.

    In any case, I really think this team is going places. I expect them to challege W&P at Nationals.

    As for the V&M and P&I comparisons if both teams go to worlds - it will help that V&M are doing a Latin FD.
    Last edited by backoutsideedge; 11-02-2010 at 03:17 PM.

  4. #169
    Constable , Costume Police colleen o'neill's Avatar
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    Well I've been wanting to say , Pogue, don't be too bummed.I know you were interested to see the progress of this couple. Don't let a bad decision on the part of their team spoil it for you. I agree they made a bad choice with the costumes.( BTW, I'm also in favour of all skaters keeping their hands out of their pockets..including Kurt back in the day..but that's another story. )..No-one can fail to compare Alexandra to Tessa..there's the ballet training ...and to top it off, I don't know about height, but they are very similarly proportioned, so it's just over-kill to resort to evoking V/M with the costumes.

    I differ a bit with doris in that I think that such an obvious comparison will backfire on them anyway, even if V/M don't return this season. If this is a strategy ( which I now think it is, since they didn't change costumes after Thornhill ) , it does them no favours , because it's too easy for those not favourably inclined to write them off as wanna-bes. Their very considerable accomplishments and promise deserve to be recognized. Their team doesn't need to invite the possibility of the couple being written off as just a pale imitation.

    For their FD , I don't think they need to tell the story of the movie, either. The song is now a standard and it doesn't require that the skaters try to portray Bergman and Bogart. I would like them to stay true to the era , but any 40's themed costumes would do..( Even this is not absolutely necessary.."Moonlight and love songs ; never out of date.") ... I would like to see Technicolor , though.. not B&W. This girl dresses up so well. Just let her shine.

    I'm not as worried about Mitch's costume since there are fewer options for men, and I actually don't feel he's very much like Scott. Scott has a natural focus and intensity that would be very hard to match and Mitch is a different physical type.

    My last word of hope is that I don't get an "inflexible" vibe from David Islam's team. I hope it's not just wishful thinking on my part , but there may be more willingness to react to any negative feedback than with some coaching teams. ( We can't be the only ones who think they've taken a step too far.) ..Keeping my fingers crossed.
    Last edited by colleen o'neill; 11-02-2010 at 05:33 PM.

  5. #170
    Wicked Yankee Girl dorispulaski's Avatar
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    Yes, I do know what a 3 turn is. I am one of the perhaps 4 people in the world who actually enjoyed doing school figures and compulsory dances back in the day.

    I agree that they are a very talented team.

    My hope is that the costume choice doesn't backfire on them. If they don't want to do Elsa, then they of course do not have to. I do not expect them to take my advice, since they did not pay for it. But I agree with colleen that it wouldn't be my choice for them.

    I still think using Jimmy "the great Schnozzola" Durante is a funny choice for the vocals, BtW.

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by dorispulaski View Post
    However, things do seem more heated at the Canadians than in previous years, so I think I agree with you there. But it doesn't seem any worse to me than against Russians in ice dance in the years when the Russians owned dance.
    More specifically, I blame COP. Canadian skaters/Skate Canada are pretty closely linked to COP. Firstly, the SLC debacle as the final straw (Cinquata has mentioned that there was the groundwork in place for COP post-Nagano due to the ice dance controversy, and I believe that to be true). Nextly, my understanding was the the second in command at ISU (David Dore, a Canadian) was integral in getting COP implemented. Thirdly, the "quirks" in COP that allowed for Canadian medalists where they might not have medalled (Sandhu winning that GPF thanks to Plushenko's illegal jump/combo; Buttle winning bronze with a fall on a rotated quad), and of course, Buttle winning worlds, setting off that raging debate about quads.

    Quote Originally Posted by backoutsideedge View Post
    Wow, why such animosity and hostility towards this young and very talented team? Do you really think they knew in the spring/summer of '09 when they were putting their programs together that V&M were aso doing a flamenco OD? Um, NO. They can't help the fact that they both look like V&M in physical appearance.

    Also, Alex Paul has extensive ballet training so of course there's going to be a resemblance to VIrtue in that way. To me, P&I are already doing harder programs/transitions etc than V&M did when they first burst onto the senior scene with Valse Triste.

    I also don't get why you're comparing P&I to Browning. Browning is a singles skater skating skating to Casa --- P&I are ice dancers. Are you saying that Browning is the only skater who should ever skate to Casa?

    Anyway, P&I are very talented and I look forward to watching them in the years to come.
    1. You're absolutely correct, they couldn't have known about the flamenco. However, they do know two things (a) That they resemble, physically and in style Virtue and Moir and (b) that any comparison doesn't work in their favour. To me, any junior team graduating to seniors should do their utmost to differentiate themselves. They haven't. That disappoints me.

    2. sigh. If you're gonna skate to music others have skated to before, I get to compare you. If you play Hamlet, I'm gonna compare you to other Hamlets I've seen. If you write a vampire novel, I'm gonna compare you to The Passage (no, not Twilight. I will not be reading that without the threat of bodily harm). I'm not one that instantly complains about the warhorses. But if you're gonna skate to Carmen.... you know the drill. The reason I'm comparing them to Kurt Browning? Because they elected to skate to music from/inspired by Casablance. Browning absolutely nailed the character of the piece and did so with a beautifully choreographed program. They didn't and his affectations bugged me. I don't like hands-in-the-pockets in life unless it's winter, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by colleen o'neill View Post
    Well I've been wanting to say , Pogue, don't be too bummed.I know you were interested to see the progress of this couple. Don't let a bad decision on the part of their team spoil it for you. I agree they made a bad choice with the costumes.( BTW, I'm also in favour of all skaters keeping their hands out of their pockets..including Kurt back in the day..but that's another story. )..No-one can fail to compare Alexandra to Tessa..there's the ballet training ...and to top it off, I don't know about height, but they are very similarly proportioned, so it's just over-kill to resort to evoking V/M with the costumes.

    I differ a bit with doris in that I think that such an obvious comparison will backfire on them anyway, even if V/M don't return this season. If this is a strategy ( which I now think it is, since they didn't change costumes after Thornhill ) , it does them no favours , because it's too easy for those not favourably inclined to write them off as wanna-bes. Their very considerable accomplishments and promise deserve to be recognized. Their team doesn't need to invite the possibility of the couple being written off as just a pale imitation.
    Heh. My original comment wasn't that dismissive, was it? I complimented their lifts and that "they sold it." While I might take the latter back now (also having rewatch C/P's program repeatedly. That's a stunner), I didn't mean to be so down. colleen's right. Their silver medal at world Juniors startled me, and they were really rough around the edges then. Watching them at Thornhill... I was blown away by just how much they improved. Here are my exact words actually

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    Paul/Islam have improved quite a bit since junior worlds. Wasn't expecting that for some reason, but given their steep learning curve, I should have. A piece of her costume fell off (looked like a hair bun thingamajig - I'm a black man with a very close shave, I don't know these things). They scored 53.16, and they had an error on the twizzle as well (she came off early). But they are much smoother and more refined than last season. Sorta stunned, actually.
    So, give them credit. They had a rocket of a debut. They've improved and will continue to do so. The depth of North American ice dance is so wonderful and watching the young Canadian and American teams progress and improve shall be a wonderful thing for this quadrennial.

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