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Thread: Men - Short Program

  1. #256
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    Chan started the step sequence near the end of the SP and he fell after a Twizzle and then picked up the step sequence after he fell. I thought he was ending with the required step sequence.

  2. #257
    Custom Title Mathman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    ...so far, I am unable to substantiate the cries of outrage here however.
    I think what people are outraged about is the fact than Patrick skated terribly yet received a high score nonetheless.

    In any sport the scoring system must reward good performance and penalize bad. Looking at the protocols to see exactly how Patrick's awful performance managed to add up to so many points is just a further indictment of the scoring system -- and, indeed, of the sport itself.

  3. #258
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    ^^ Well said!

  4. #259
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    the bigger issue

    I think the issue of the marks has been well covered - my question is why cant Patrick Chan stay upright - when was the last time he did a totally clean perofrmace? He is an outstanding skater and athlete but even his 2 world silver medals included flaws in his performance especially last years worlds. His great SS , spins and FW sequences keep him " up there " for sure , but why cant he land the jumps in the first place - is it a focus issue , a tecnical issue a nerves issue or what? I really love his skating but the constant falls or over rotations or step outs give me ulcers ? Can on eof you tecnical experts enlighten me ?

  5. #260
    Yeah! Lets get this party started. enlight78's Avatar
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    After watching the Chan's program i have no quarms about his score, his skating skill are comparable a level above the rest, Oda program his empty, and adam is slow and still sophmorish, he really performed and i enjoyed the program a lot, especially the ftwk, the jumps where not there at all, chan makes gains ,speed , and flow so easily as if he dancing and not skating almost make albert looks like he is lumbering across the ice

  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think what people are outraged about is the fact than Patrick skated terribly yet received a high score nonetheless.

    In any sport the scoring system must reward good performance and penalize bad. Looking at the protocols to see exactly how Patrick's awful performance managed to add up to so many points is just a further indictment of the scoring system -- and, indeed, of the sport itself.
    Exactly. And it's a perfect example of why many sportswriters don't consider figure skating a sport. No one really questions that Chan is a fine skater, but falling 3 times in a Short Program only 2 min 40 sec long and getting high PC scores stretches credulity. Can't see how anyone could consider it a good performance.

  7. #262
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    Who is Albert? Or did you mean Alban?

  8. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    I was distracted at that precise moment with when two people required my immediate attention and I haven't been able to review what happened on tape. I didn't see, what do you expect me to say? In any event, I am not alone here in saying I am not sure re: the 3rd fall in case you haven't noticed. A regular poster here who reviewed the youtube clip posted here to say he/she believes the element was already completed and contradicted your admant observation.

    When the protocol comes out and the panel determined the fall wasn't part of the element, would you then apologize for your very impolite and accusatory dismeanor?
    Blame me if you want, kill me if you will, but I think I made a wrong call. I watched it again, and I realized that the straight line step sequence I thought he had completed did not quite reach the other end of the ring. So the two step sequences I thought he had were actually just one complex sequence. In other words, I think he did fall on the required element. Kill me. Kill me.
    Last edited by skatinginbc; 10-29-2010 at 11:25 PM.

  9. #264
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    When the protocol comes out and the panel determined the fall wasn't part of the element, would you then apologize for your very impolite and accusatory dismeanor?
    Hardly impolite. Accusatory, yes, and necessarily so given the comments being made. I certainly would not apologize if the scenario you speak of comes to pass; if the judges didn't mark Chan down on his footwork sequence they were incorrect. I do not put up blatantly incorrect rulings and believe them to be the ultimate truth just because they are "official".

  10. #265
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    Quote Originally Posted by KKonas View Post
    Exactly. And it's a perfect example of why many sportswriters don't consider figure skating a sport.
    I see no need to cater to a bunch of mostly heterosexist sportswriters who will not bother with this sport whatsoever even when the result is determined using a clock. In fact, I am pleased they don't trivialize our sport to the same level as one that openly cheers fist fights on ice which of course makes juicy stories for these writers. If that is deemed a "real sport", be my guest. Don't believe me? Then please name a woman who can be accepted as a commentator on any of such "real / money making professional sport".

    Thankfully, the status and prestige of this sport is not dependent on the opinion of such narrow minded people. In fact, IOC is about to approve a team based event for 2014 Olympics whereas some of these "real sport" is not even in the Olympics.
    Last edited by wallylutz; 10-29-2010 at 11:39 PM.

  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    Hardly impolite. Accusatory, yes, and necessarily so given the comments being made. I certainly would not apologize if the scenario you speak of comes to pass; if the judges didn't mark Chan down on his footwork sequence they were incorrect. I do not put up blatantly incorrect rulings and believe them to be the ultimate truth just because they are "official".
    Now, don't fight. I am the bad one. Kill me.

  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    Blame me if you want, kill me if you will, but I think I made a wrong call. I watched it again, and I realized that the straight line step sequence I thought he had completed did not quite reach the other end of the ring. So the two step sequences I thought he had were actually just one complex sequence. In other words, I think he did fall on the required element. Kill me. Kill me.
    Again, I missed it. Could well be a RE, then again, others weren't sure either. Intuitively, it would seem more plausible that it was a RE than not b/c I don't think Chen would have beat Oda by just one point with a Quad whereas Oda did not have one.

  13. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by wallylutz View Post
    Again, I missed it. Could well be a RE, then again, others weren't sure either. Intuitively, it would seem more plausible that it was a RE than not b/c I don't think Chen would have beat Oda by just one point with a Quad whereas Oda did not have one.
    Thank you for sparing my life. Thanks.

  14. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I think what people are outraged about is the fact than Patrick skated terribly yet received a high score nonetheless.

    In any sport the scoring system must reward good performance and penalize bad. Looking at the protocols to see exactly how Patrick's awful performance managed to add up to so many points is just a further indictment of the scoring system -- and, indeed, of the sport itself.
    Yes! Patrick was scored as if he had a few minor bobbles that you could hardly notice. But his falls were HUGE and very disruptive, and the fall on the footwork even more so, since Patrick is supposedly the king of footwork.

    It's insulting and demeaning to skaters who had clean or near-clean programs and yet finished below Patrick.

    I do not believe he would have received such huge PCS scores if the competition had been outside Canada.

  15. #270
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    Wow, very interesting & thought-provoking thread, I read all 18 pages, lol.

    Once again I missed the Mens Sps. :( Why oh why couldn't the men have skated first this AM, not the women, and I'm going to miss everybody tomorrow as well, so won't be able to watch them all until either very late Sunday night or early Monday morning. *argh!* >8^<

    And I just logged-onto IN and noticed they don't have it on on-demand yet, so I haven't been able to watch the replays, therefore I'm unable to post my own thoughts. However, if they post it by midnight I'll be able to do so, otherwise I will have to wait until late Sunday night or early Monday morning.

    That said, may I say I'm pleased how it all turned out thus far! *clapping* Kevin Reynolds carries on the torch of the Quad Kings (al Plushenko, Lambiel, Joubert). However, remember Kevin, Zhenya has officially landed over 100+ quads in his almost 13 yr. career in seniors, that's a lot of live up to, but I have a feeling you'll hang tough. So happppy about this kid!!!! And Noburani Oda, what can I say, I had an epiphany about you the other morning, the only thing missing is the quad, which I thought you would go for it every time out from here on in, don't prove me wrong, Noburani, GO FOR IT IN THE LP!!!!! Last but not least, Adam Rippon, he does the USA proud, being the leader of a new generation of American Men this quadrennial. But remember, Adam, with the quad you would honestly be unstoppable, it's well worth mastering imho.


    GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ODA, REYNOLDS, RIPPON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! *clapping insanely, lol*

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