Men - Short Program

[museksk8r]

The judges had no problem (rightfully, and thankfully) sticking Mao Asada down into 8th place when she bombed at NHK, you would think that would be possible here...

That's it exactly. Perfect example! This judging panel is playing a dirty, dirty game.

[Blades of Passion]

But if people think that once a skater make a few mistakes, might as well pack your bag and go home, it's silly.

It's not just "a few mistakes", as in maybe he double-footed a jump and had a turnout on another jump and was shaky on a spin. He made 3 major errors. Historically (and objectively), doing that in the Short Program DOES mean you might as well pack your bag and go home (in terms of realistically having a chance at a medal).

[wallylutz]

and I don't think anyone blames Chan for the score.. just the poor skate.

that's not the impression I got here at all, maybe I am reading something else entirely, the people here are just nasty. Aside the obvious, not a single soul has yet able to articulate their opinion or objection beyond: "there are 3 falls" yet claim to appreciate the overall package. 3 falls = -3 You need a lot more than that to make a case of judges overscoring him, which I don't know if it's the case here or not. Maybe I'll come to that conclusion as well but at this point, I don't have an answer yet.

It reminds me of the same phenomenon when Laura Lepisto won the World Bronze last year - sometimes I really wish some skating fans would shut up and learn a bit more about the sport before complaining about anything and everything aside from jumping counting and stating the obvious.

[burntBREAD]

It's not just "a few mistakes", as in maybe he double-footed a jump and had a turnout on another jump and was shaky on a spin. He made 3 major errors. Historically, doing that in the Short Program DOES mean you might as well pack your bag and go home (in terms of realistically having a chance at a medal).

I totally agree. The short program only has, what, three jumps, three spins, and one footwork sequence? The jumps are the most important, he fell on two, and then he fell on the all-important footwork section

[Tonichelle]

I've seen people say - including myself - that his performance was affected. To me there was a definite disconnect after the second fall. Others have mentioned that he is not as exceptional on spins as others. And that the spins alone are not good enough to make up for the falls.

I do believe you are reading more into it, fans of skaters do that. I have to constantly bite my tongue (so to speak) when I see something negative surrounding one of my favorites (try being a fan of Scott Hamilton's commentary).

[adoreyuna]

I have to see the protocols but i have a feeling Chan did not get -3 GOE for his falls.

I was also wondering if he could get step level 4 in spite of falling.

[FTnoona]

I would think that once someone falls 3 times. He/she would be hit hard in the skating skills because if you fall that much doesn't that mean that there was something wrong with your skating skills that day? Don't the falls also distracted from interpretation and choreo so wouldn't those scores be lower that day too? Yes Chan is a beautiful skater when he is on but the problem with falling 3 times for me is that it distracts from the aesthetic value of the program so I thought the PCS should have been lower. Judges were probably being nice because as someone already said the judges didn't have a problem burying Mao even when she skated at home.

[wallylutz]

I think the difference here is that Chan rotated the jumps and somehow maintained a decent technicial score under the current system, which Mao failed to do.

Asada just popped her jumps, hence getting almost no base value at all like Oda did at Worlds.

Not attempting a jump is considered much more serious than rotating the jumps yet make mistakes. Base value of 4 toe is much higher than 3 lutz even with mistake under the current system, precisely because people complained last year about skaters not taking enough risk. So now Chen adds 4 toe in his program, the same people now stick it to him b/c he falls...and complained about him being overscored...

I can only say you got what you asked. You want 4 toe in SP? then don't complain if things don't go your way.

[PROKOFIEV]

I am v ery impressed by Oda's soft knee. I can not believe how much deep down he gets and he has such beautiful flows out of jumps. This is simply amazing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-n5QgizzGc

[wallylutz]

I would think that once someone falls 3 times. He/she would be hit hard in the skating skills because if you fall that much doesn't that mean that there was something wrong with your skating skills that day? Don't the falls also distracted from interpretation and choreo so wouldn't those scores be lower that day too? Judges were probably being nice because as someone already said the judges didn't have a problem burying Mao even when she skated at home.

Number of falls is irrelevant with respect to Skating Skills. Someone could fall 6 times yet has amazing SS. But PE should take a hit depending on recovery and etc.

[adoreyuna]

Kevin REYNOLDS
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWRulbZL1zw&

Chan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpbvz_cU62s&

Alban PREAUBERT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5P32zMJ0ug&

[skatinginbc]

Did Chan really fall on a required footwork sequence or did he fall on a second footwork sequence now reguaded as part of the transition? Don't laugh at my stupid question. They changed the rules so often, and I am all confused. By the way, Mao's low scores at NHK was due to her popped jump and under-rotations, which were all killer mistakes in the current scoring system. Her PCS was still high given her mistakes. Chan rotated the jumps, so he received the scores. There was no birthday gift in play.

[wallylutz]

I totally agree. The short program only has, what, three jumps, three spins, and one footwork sequence? The jumps are the most important, he fell on two, and then he fell on the all-important footwork section

And he is not in 1st but 4th in a small crowd and about 8 points behind the leader. Had this take place @ Worlds, chances are he would be outside top 12 easily.

[FTnoona]

Number of falls is irrelevant with respect to Skating Skills. Someone could fall 6 times yet has amazing SS. But PE should take a hit depending on recovery and etc.

Well that's just my opinion because I am thinking that skating skills should involve your technique for jumps even though that is probably already factored into the GOE for the jumps. I do agree with you that PE should take a hit.

[seniorita]

You want 4 toe in SP? then don't complain if things don't go your way

So it is mandatory that if we want a quad in sp we need to witness also 3 falls in the program? Not just a step out, or a turn over, 3 falls. Of course it is good he tried it but it wasn't enough, and this is the short program. Maybe now he can see that a quad and a 3axel in sp is not such easy option and maybe then you dont have strength to do the whole footwork in one foot and a dozen of transitions. Less talented skaters than him in this competition stayed on their feet during the 2.50 minutes with a quad. Nobody accuses the skater for his marks, but the skate was on the level of Mao NHK one. I thought at some point after the 3axel he will stop. If a less known skater skated like this at Worlds would he qualify for the long?