Men - Free program

[ImaginaryPogue]

Chan winning the free isn't that big of a deal, but the amount he won the free is questionably. He had some scratchy jumps that still got postive GOE.

Agreed.

[wallylutz]

Yes, but Oda's scratchy 4T also didn't receive any positive GOE either (except from one judge, which didn't make a difference in the end).

Judges were somewhat lenient on the GOE here but it wasn't specific to one skater alone as some people tried to allude here.

[burntBREAD]

For your information, a fall does not lead to an automatic -3 GOE in most cases. Instead o wasting time on conspiracy theories, I think it would be helpful to read up on the rules, which are public information

Chill out. ImaginaryPogue was explaning to ME why Chan didn't receive a -3 from all judges for his fall in the step sequence, and where's the conspiracy theory? It was an observation. And we DID read the rules, can you read entire posts before admonishing us? We're not sure how to interpret the table...how about you explain it?

[ImaginaryPogue]

Wallylutz, you snipped out the part where I was clearly reading from an ISU document, so I wasn't just pulling that out of thin air. I was unsure I was reading it correctly, however. I'm a little disappointed you recontextualized my words like that, to be honest.

As for time-wasting conspiracy theories, I'm curently killing time waiting for the ladies LP to start, so I'm fine with time wasting.

That said, can you find a non-Canadian skater that has NOT had straight -3 for an element with a fall, particularly a jump?

[Mathman]

I am pretty sure it was last year that they changed the rule on the -3 fall deduction. Prior to the 2009-2010 season it was automatic, now it is not.

[evangeline]

Judges were somewhat lenient on the GOE here but it wasn't specific to one skater alone as some people tried to allude here.

I agree that judges were somewhat lenient on the GOE for most skaters--in another competition, Oda would've probably received more negative GOEs for that scratchy 4T.

But to award positive GOE to Chan's scratchy jumps while awarding no GOE for Oda's scratchy jumps? It looks like the judges were more lenient on some skaters than others.

[Mathman]

Can you find a non-Canadian skater that has NOT had straight -3 for an element with a fall, particularly a jump?

It is not unheard of. Every now and then a skater will get a break from a couple of the judges, not just Canadians. This could happen if the jump is otherwise excellent and has some positive features in the judge's opinion.

[burntBREAD]

I am pretty sure it was last year that they changed the rule on the -3 fall deduction. Prior to the 2009-2010 season it was automatic, now it is not.

Thank you for your simple, patient explanation. Btw I'm from Metro Detroit, too! :O

[gold12345]

That said, can you find a non-Canadian skater that has NOT had straight -3 for an element with a fall, particularly a jump?

I've seen a -2 here and there for a jump with a fall quite often. But never a -1.

[skatinginbc]

Judges were somewhat lenient on the GOE here but it wasn't specific to one skater alone as some people tried to allude here.

I am not an expert in the rules, so I would like to ask you a question:
(1) Is it possible that the +GOEs Chan received for some of his scratchy landings was due to his fast speed and footwork leading into those jumps whereas Oda's scratchy 4T did not receive a positive GOE was due his lack of footwork leading to it?

[jan]

I am not an expert in the rules, so I would like to ask you a question:
(1) Is it possible that the +GOEs Chan received for some of his scratchy landings was due to his fast speed and footwork leading into those jumps whereas Oda's scratchy 4T did not receive a positive GOE was due his lack of footwork leading to it?

Yes it is. Chan racks up speed marks, difficult entry marks, etc. for most of his jumps.

[seniorita]

Mr :sheesh:Inman doesnt send emails anymore?

[Blades of Passion]

A dissection of why Chan's TES were too high in the LP:

*+2 across the board from the judges for his Quad, with one judge even giving him a +3. This is ridiculous. He doesn't get enough height in his Quad to justify that kind of mark. This should have been a +1.

*A lot of +2's on his Flying Sit Spin. Undeserved. Look at the lazy bent-leg position he has when trying to do the catch-foot in order to gain a level. Not great.

*A lot of +1's here and there for jumps with small wobbles on the landings. Considering Chan's jumps aren't that big, these are undeserved.

*+3 GOE on his second footwork sequence. +3 GOE means one of the best technical elements you've ever seen. Should be given out rarely. Chan's sequence was not that good. He didn't have some of the most evocative body movement ever a la Yagudin or Lambiel and he didn't have blindingly fast turns or speed across the ice.

*A lot of +2's and even a +3 for his Combination Spin. This is wrong. The transitions between positions in his combination spin are VERY easy. He doesn't do much to gain the Level 4 on the spin and the overall quality of his positions are only average. Speed is good but not amazing. Should have received +1 at the very most.

[Mathman]

I have to say i am not outraged at the scoring of the LP like I was for the short. Of the top contenders Patrick showed the most energy and commitment.

I am not sure exactly what was so amazing about Patrick's quad that it needed +2 and +3 GOEs on top of the base value for a properly executed element, but oh well.

Btw I'm from Metro Detroit, too! :O

Hi!

Go Bereswille and Young, and good luck Amanda Best!

Go Sheikh and VanCleave!

[Tonichelle]

I have to say i am not outraged at the scoring of the LP like I was for the short. Of the top contenders Patrick showed the most energy and commitment.

with the exception of the Pirate, I agree.