Men - Free program | Page 14 | Golden Skate

Men - Free program

BigJohn

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
No, it's actually not ridiculous at all, BigJohn. It's a debate that is yet to be settled. Such events as what we have seen today perfectly illustrate this fact.
As far as me turning you off - that's really personal and irrelevant to the conversation. I'm not here to be liked, I'm here to share my thoughts on this sport.
I also try to avoid talking about other posters personally, but rather attempt to focus on figure skating analysis and opinion.

Why not try to avoid talking about skater's personality then? And not talk about really personal and irrelevant to the conversation stuff like you being turned off by Chan?
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Wait, where? The only place I see GOE -3 is for the first two, and under fall it just says "-3" (this is in the table near the end of the document), is there another place that says something else?

It's how it's worded - and I might be wrong, but it's worth exploring. I noticed it last season too (for Chan as well)

Sometimes it says "-3." I've presumed that to mean that from whatever score you would have given it without the fall, deduct three points. The added point would be that it must be a negative GOE (ie. -1, -2, -3). However, there are times when a GOE of -3 is automatic. Like in the short program - if you don't land any combinations, your first non-axel jump is automatically saddled with a GOE of -3. (Mao Asada's sp at worlds 07 is the first that comes to mind). That's marked as "G.O.E. -3"

I presume that's how to read it.

The reason I mention this is because check the protocols for last year's worlds and look at Chan's LP. He fell on the 3Lo, but ONE judge gave him a GOE of -2. Or even check it with this event. Reynolds fell once, but several judges gave him -2 GOE. Diane Szmiett fell three times at NHK, but there's only two elements in which all the judges gave her -3. Now (here's the bit that's problematic)... I cannot find evidence for this for non-Canadian skaters.
 

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
It's how it's worded - and I might be wrong, but it's worth exploring. I noticed it last season too (for Chan as well)

[...]

I cannot find evidence for this for non-Canadian skaters.

:frown:

For your information, a fall does not lead to an automatic -3 GOE in most cases. Instead of wasting time on conspiracy theories, I think it would be helpful to read up on the rules, which are public information
 
Last edited:

wallylutz

Medalist
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Yes, but Oda's scratchy 4T also didn't receive any positive GOE either (except from one judge, which didn't make a difference in the end).

Judges were somewhat lenient on the GOE here but it wasn't specific to one skater alone as some people tried to allude here.
 

burntBREAD

Medalist
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
:frown:

For your information, a fall does not lead to an automatic -3 GOE in most cases. Instead o wasting time on conspiracy theories, I think it would be helpful to read up on the rules, which are public information

Chill out. ImaginaryPogue was explaning to ME why Chan didn't receive a -3 from all judges for his fall in the step sequence, and where's the conspiracy theory? It was an observation. And we DID read the rules, can you read entire posts before admonishing us? We're not sure how to interpret the table...how about you explain it?
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Wallylutz, you snipped out the part where I was clearly reading from an ISU document, so I wasn't just pulling that out of thin air. I was unsure I was reading it correctly, however. I'm a little disappointed you recontextualized my words like that, to be honest.

As for time-wasting conspiracy theories, I'm curently killing time waiting for the ladies LP to start, so I'm fine with time wasting.

That said, can you find a non-Canadian skater that has NOT had straight -3 for an element with a fall, particularly a jump?
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
I am pretty sure it was last year that they changed the rule on the -3 fall deduction. Prior to the 2009-2010 season it was automatic, now it is not.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Judges were somewhat lenient on the GOE here but it wasn't specific to one skater alone as some people tried to allude here.

I agree that judges were somewhat lenient on the GOE for most skaters--in another competition, Oda would've probably received more negative GOEs for that scratchy 4T.

But to award positive GOE to Chan's scratchy jumps while awarding no GOE for Oda's scratchy jumps? It looks like the judges were more lenient on some skaters than others.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2003
Can you find a non-Canadian skater that has NOT had straight -3 for an element with a fall, particularly a jump?

It is not unheard of. Every now and then a skater will get a break from a couple of the judges, not just Canadians. This could happen if the jump is otherwise excellent and has some positive features in the judge's opinion.
 

burntBREAD

Medalist
Joined
Mar 27, 2010
I am pretty sure it was last year that they changed the rule on the -3 fall deduction. Prior to the 2009-2010 season it was automatic, now it is not.

Thank you for your simple, patient explanation. Btw I'm from Metro Detroit, too! :O
 

skatinginbc

Medalist
Joined
Aug 26, 2010
Judges were somewhat lenient on the GOE here but it wasn't specific to one skater alone as some people tried to allude here.

I am not an expert in the rules, so I would like to ask you a question:
(1) Is it possible that the +GOEs Chan received for some of his scratchy landings was due to his fast speed and footwork leading into those jumps whereas Oda's scratchy 4T did not receive a positive GOE was due his lack of footwork leading to it?
 
Last edited:
Top