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Thread: Men - Free program

  1. #286
    leave no stone unturned seniorita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    *+2 across the board from the judges for his Quad, with one judge even giving him a +3. This is ridiculous. He doesn't get enough height in his Quad to justify that kind of mark. This should have been a +1.
    +3 Goe maybe cause he was talking about it and finally landed it?
    did Reynods got Goes for his 4 quads in sp and lp?
    Or Arthur for his second 3axel that was perfect?
    Javier's quad?
    (i m watching ladies, cant watch protocols as well**)

  2. #287
    "Hold an edge and look sexy!" museksk8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blades of Passion View Post
    A dissection of why Chan's TES were too high in the LP:

    *+2 across the board from the judges for his Quad, with one judge even giving him a +3. This is ridiculous. He doesn't get enough height in his Quad to justify that kind of mark. This should have been a +1.

    *A lot of +2's on his Flying Sit Spin. Undeserved. Look at the lazy bent-leg position he has when trying to do the catch-foot in order to gain a level. Not great.

    *A lot of +1's here and there for jumps with small wobbles on the landings. Considering Chan's jumps aren't that big, these are undeserved.

    *+3 GOE on his second footwork sequence. +3 GOE means one of the best technical elements you've ever seen. Should be given out rarely. Chan's sequence was not that good. He didn't have some of the most evocative body movement ever a la Yagudin or Lambiel and he didn't have blindingly fast turns or speed across the ice.

    *A lot of +2's and even a +3 for his Combination Spin. This is wrong. The transitions between positions in his combination spin are VERY easy. He doesn't do much to gain the Level 4 on the spin and the overall quality of his positions are only average. Speed is good but not amazing. Should have received +1 at the very most.
    ITA! The 1st 3Lutz, the 3flip, and 3loop+3toe all should have received -1 GOE across the board from every judge. 1st 3Axel should have received -3 GOE across the board from every judge. 4toe should have only received +1 GOE across the board from every judge.

  3. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    I have to say i am not outraged at the scoring of the LP like I was for the short. Of the top contenders Patrick showed the most energy and commitment.

    I am not sure exactly what was so amazing about Patrick's quad that it needed +2 and +3 GOEs on top of the base value for a properly executed element, but oh well.



    Hi!

    Go Bereswille and Young, and good luck Amanda Best!

    Go Sheikh and VanCleave!
    From my layman's observation, I think Patrick's quad had (1) a good speed into it, (2) with difficult entry (some footwork), (3) holding a steady edge throughout without a tiny wobble, (4) good speed coming out. The height was not huge but decent (not positive nor negative). Does that justify +2 or +3? I don't know.

  4. #289
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    Quote Originally Posted by seniorita View Post
    +3 Goe maybe cause he was talking about it and finally landed it?
    did Reynods got Goes for his 4 quads in sp and lp?
    Or Arthur for his second 3axel that was perfect?
    Javier's quad?
    (i m watching ladies, cant watch protocols as well**)
    For his LP, Reynolds mostly received +1s and a couple of zeros for both his landed quads.
    Fernandez received a single +3, but mostly a mixture of +2 and +1s for his 4T for a total of +1.71 GOE.
    Gachinsky received straight +1s across the board for his 3A, with a single 0.

  5. #290
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    To score +2 for GOE, you need to satisfy four of these bullets

    1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
    2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
    3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
    4) good height and distance
    5) good extension on landing / creative exit
    6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
    7) effortless throughout
    8) element matched to the musical structure

    Did Chan for his quad?

  6. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatinginbc View Post
    From my layman's observation, I think Patrick's quad had (1) a good speed into it, (2) with difficult entry (some footwork), (3) holding a steady edge throughout without a tiny wobble, (4) good speed coming out. The height was not huge but decent (not positive nor negative). Does that justify +2 or +3? I don't know.
    I need to re-watch his LP again, but if I recall correctly, I don't think Patrick had footwork leading up to his 4T.

    I may be wrong, though.

  7. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mathman View Post
    Hi!

    Go Bereswille and Young, and good luck Amanda Best!

    Go Sheikh and VanCleave!
    Hello!

    Trevor Young went to my high school But I'm a senior now, so I never met him

  8. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    To score +2 for GOE, you need to satisfy four of these bullets

    1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
    2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
    3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
    4) good height and distance
    5) good extension on landing / creative exit
    6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
    7) effortless throughout
    8) element matched to the musical structure

    Did Chan for his quad?
    He has 1) difficult entry, 6) good flow from entry to exit, 7) effortless throughout, 8) element matched the music. I don't know about 2) steps immediately before jump

  9. #294
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    On the broadcast, Gannon and Weiss said that Chan told the audience that this competition is the best moment of his life. I would be embarrassed to accept the gold medal with such disgraceful performances if I were in his skates. I would honestly give Oda the gold out of shame for how poorly I did.
    This is disgraceful. Given gifts by judges for one of the worst performances from a world medalist in a short program ever. The event should be the worst moment in his life because it may turn out to be one of his worst skates ever. He should just be honest and say he was horrible and was just given a gift because it was skate canada and skate canada is one of the more politically agressive and itimidating to judges in the world.

  10. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by missysays View Post
    What really gets me is if Patrick was any other nationality, the Skate Canada leadership and media would probably be all over the place denouncing the injustice of the situation.

    Agreed. It's pretty apparent the men's competition was a foregone conclusion and a complete set-up for Chan to win. The scoring of the SP for that craptacular program was solely to keep him close enough to not only make the podium, but to win it. Combined with the overscoring in the FS. Canada should be ashamed, but then again, from at least the past couple of years of Skate Canada, we've seen it's probably the most unfairly judged of all the GP's. Where's Transparency International when you need them?

    Officially now a hater.

  11. #296
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    Gachinsky received straight +1s across the board for his 3A, with a single 0.
    Which is crap, IMO. Gachinsky is not my cup of tea, but his 3A was excellent. Really, really good.

  12. #297
    Tripping on the Podium
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    To score +2 for GOE, you need to satisfy four of these bullets

    1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
    2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
    3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
    4) good height and distance
    5) good extension on landing / creative exit
    6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
    7) effortless throughout
    8) element matched to the musical structure

    Did Chan for his quad?
    1) no
    2) no
    3) no
    4) maybe or not
    5) no
    6) no
    7) maybe or not
    8) maybe or not

  13. #298
    The Shadow knows... Tonichelle's Avatar
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    Michael Weiss shared this with fans:
    "Great Men's long program - Quads all over!!... and the winner had the Component marks to go with it"

  14. #299
    Skating is art, if you let it be. Blades of Passion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jan View Post
    Chan racks up speed marks, difficult entry marks, etc. for most of his jumps.
    LMAO. There is no such thing as a "speed mark". The amount of speed a skater goes into a jump with only matters in terms of the quality of the jump if they harnass that speed. Patrick's jumps often do not get exceptional height or distance or finish the rotation in the air with room still left before landing.

    Transitions before and after a jump should have NO bearing on the GOE of the jump either unless the transition is exceptionally difficult and done directly into or out of the jump. There is already a Program Component for transitions, they shouldn't be effecting the GOE of jumps. The most important thing about a jump is exactly that - JUMPING. Leaping into the air, turning, and landing. The size of the jump should be the most important consideration for +GOE. Big jumps are the most difficult. After that should come the flowout on the landing and after that should be any special air positions or delay in rotation or especially difficult entrances.

    Doing small jumps out of transitions is not as impressive as skating down the ice and vaulting yourself into the air with POWER (without too much of a telegraph, of course). It takes more energy to do that and more control to land huge jumps. Brian Joubert's Triple Flip is one of the best Triple Flips ever (or used to be before the wrong-edge paranoia took over) because he gets enormous height + doesn't prerotate at all + completes the rotation in the air before landing (and generally has great outflow on the landing).

    Quote Originally Posted by ImaginaryPogue View Post
    To score +2 for GOE, you need to satisfy four of these bullets

    1) unexpected / creative / difficult entry
    2) clear recognizable steps/free skating movements immediately preceding element
    3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
    4) good height and distance
    5) good extension on landing / creative exit
    6) good flow from entry to exit including jump combinations / sequences
    7) effortless throughout
    8) element matched to the musical structure
    You don't "need" to, the bullets are only guidelines, but yes judges tend to take it literally in most cases. For Patrick's Quad he certainly did NOT have #1, he didn't have #2, he didn't have #3, #4 is NO (/questionable) and it's RIDICULOUS that there is only one GOE bullet for both the height and distance of a jump when those are the most important qualities of a jump, #5 is questionanble, #6 is a YES, #7 is a YES, #8 is a NO.

    He deserved +1 or maybe +1.5 if the GOE grades were allowed to be input like that (they should be).

  15. #300
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    My bad. Blades is right - it's up to the judges to determine how many bullets to use. That strikes me as silly and to 6.0 like to be fair.

    Heh, wrong edge paranoia.

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