Ladies - Free Program | Page 12 | Golden Skate

Ladies - Free Program

bigsisjiejie

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 22, 2009
Interesting comment. It makes me think of the power of the BIG Federations over the little ones. How many skaters - not from a big fed - have actually won or even podiumed in a competition. Lambiel, Yuna, and that wonderful dance team from Bulgaria, and who else?

WORLDS:
Pairs: Kovarikova/Novotny (CZE)--gold and Siudeks (POL)--bronze in the 90's.
Dance: Rahkamo/Kokko (FIN)--silver and bronze in the 90's. Also Drobiasko/Vanagas (LTU)--bronze and Denkova/Stavisky (BUL)--full set in the 00's
Ladies: Lepisto (FIN)--bronze last year of course.
Men: can't think of any

EURO's:
Men: Barna (CZE)--gold sometime in the 90's. VanderPerren (BEL)--couple of bronzes fairly recently
Ladies: Czako (HUN)--silver or bronze sometime in the 90's. Sebestyen (HUN), Poykio (FIN), Meier (SUI), Lepisto (FIN) all on the podium in the 2000's. ADD: Elene G (GEO) too, 2010!
Pairs: K/N and Siudeks--ditto above timeframes.
Dance: D/S, can't think of anyone else.

4CC:
Ladies: Malinina (UZB)--gold in the late 90's. And Yuna of course.

Can't think back before the 1990's right now. And I guess you can add some Ukrainians into this list, if you call them a smaller federation. You're right that it is a small list. But of the smaller federations, there have been more ladies getting somewhere on the podium than in any of the other disciplines.
 
Last edited:

katha

On the Ice
Joined
Jan 7, 2007
^ Drobiazko/Vanagas also won two bronze medals at Europeans. But I would agree that starting for a small federation with no political pull does make reaching the podium harder.

And isn't the judging at Skate Canada always somewhat generous towards the Canadian skaters? ;) More blatantly so than the judges at other Grand Prix events reward "home" skaters? I thought that's well known? That doesn't mean that Canadian skaters get overscored in general, just at that particular event.
 

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
To me, she seemed more disappointed at her own mediocre performance. Of course, if she'd skated her FS like she did her SP, they'd have given her 120+ to ensure the victory over Czisny.

As she would have deserved if she had skated her best. On paper, Phaneuf's program is more difficult than Czisny's. On paper, Cynthia repeats the 3Lutz and the 3loop while Alissa repeats the 3flip and the 3toe. They both have lovely spins and strong choreography. If Cynthia were clean, she would have deserved to beat Alissa.

I have to say major props to Alissa, Yuka, and Jason for helping Czisny tame her 3flip (at least for this event). 3 times attempted and 3 times landed beautifully. Great for her!
 
Last edited:

museksk8r

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Country
United-States
agreed. I dont believe its a national bias as much as a chan bias. Reynolds and Ten were scored fairly. Or maybe in the case of reynolds sp unfairly since the judges basically told him chan was better with three falls than he was with his two quads.

I definitely believe it's just a Chan bias too. Chan is the only Canadian skater I know of who gets scored outrageously even when he makes multiple major mistakes. As much as some like to complain about Joannie's scores, I've never seen her beat out top ranked world competitors who skate near clean performances with fully rotated jumps when she skates mistake filled programs. Last season at Skate Canada, Mirai was indeed rotating her jumps on the ice (not in the air) and skating with zero expression and life in her LP. Alissa UR and fell on two triple jumps and skated A LOT slower than Joannie. Plus, her planned difficulty was nowhere near Rochette's.
 
Last edited:

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
Why was Phaneuf looking so angry in the KnC after her FS. She seemed to be furious at her score. Was she annoyed that the judges didn't hold her up the way they did Patrick?

Usually when someone skates poorly, they don't look happy. That's the general response to skating poorly. That said, good attempt to disparage another Canadian skater. Messy interpretation, but convincing performance. So so transitions.
 

ImaginaryPogue

Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 3, 2009
The pairs were overscored too. The Canadian pair that nearly won last night would not have gotten a score of nearly 120 points with a big fall and a couple other close landings anywhere else. They are not that good yet.

Oh, definitely. They deserved to win the long based on the missed element of the Russians, but should've been a 3-4 point win, not 7.
 

cjsk8fan

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
At the moment Agnes will have to live and die with her jumps. The first thing I would say is that it's surprising she is supposedly training a 3A and had a shaky 2A in her SP and fell on it in her LP.

But she has some presence on the ice, has a decent line and flexibilty and her spins are OK. She is slow, but looks pretty athletic and her speed may get better.

Like Christina she is a late bloomer and her senior debut went as well as most of our more seasoned Ladies have done the past few seasons.
It might have been nerves tonight and hopefully her next event will show progress.

Tonight was Alissa's night and as a longtime fan of her skating I am really happy for her.
Despite some of the anti-Canada grumbling going on I am sure Alissa feels much differently about our great neighbor to the North. :)

Makes me wonder if we should have sent Alissa to Vanouver last February ;)

I don't understand the "Agnes is slow" comments. She does not look any slower than Alissa, in fact I think she looks faster than her. And were Alissa's spins really better than Agnes'. I don't think so. She does needs experience, but I think her presence on the ice is very good, she has nice spins and flexibility and her jumps, when on, are some of the best. Who knows what happened at Skate Canada. She might have been feeling under the weather, her nerves got to her etc. But I think in the near future she could be a force.
 

evangeline

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
I don't understand the "Agnes is slow" comments. She does not look any slower than Alissa, in fact I think she looks faster than her. And were Alissa's spins really better than Agnes'. I don't think so. She does needs experience, but I think her presence on the ice is very good, she has nice spins and flexibility and her jumps, when on, are some of the best. Who knows what happened at Skate Canada. She might have been feeling under the weather, her nerves got to her etc. But I think in the near future she could be a force.

I have never seen Agnes live, but I have seen Alissa live, and Alissa is...well, to be charitable, not that fast. Being faster than Alissa (which, judging from YT, it looks like Agnes is) does not exactly put you anywhere near the category of Carolina Kostner. And I respectively agree with your statement that Alissa's spins were not better than Agnes.' Agnes may be a good spinner, but Alissa is an excellent spinner.

To be honest, I think Agnes Z will be more of a force if she leaves Tom Z. He has given her great jumps, but Tom Z. is not known for giving his skates refinement/polish or speed.
 

silverlake22

Record Breaker
Joined
Nov 12, 2009
I have never seen Agnes live, but I have seen Alissa live, and Alissa is...well, to be charitable, not that fast. Being faster than Alissa (which, judging from YT, it looks like Agnes is) does not exactly put you anywhere near the category of Carolina Kostner. And I respectively agree with your statement that Alissa's spins were not better than Agnes.' Agnes may be a good spinner, but Alissa is an excellent spinner.

To be honest, I think Agnes Z will be more of a force if she leaves Tom Z. He has given her great jumps, but Tom Z. is not known for giving his skates refinement/polish or speed.

I just don't think Alissa and Agnes are really comparable, their skating styles are just so different. Alissa is a pretty princess, elegant, ballerina type skater whereas Agnes is more of an athletic, power-jumper type of skater. Alissa does better in slow programs whereas Agnes seems to do better with upbeat programs. In terms of their jumping abilities, Agnes is a better jumper hands down. In regards to spinning, Alissa is better but Agnes is still quite good. That being said, Agnes' style and body type don't seem to be suited to doing Alissa type programs, she does have long limbs but she has a very athletic body type and an athletic style of skating to go with it. Agnes will never be like a Sasha Cohen or Mao Asada type of skater. I think she has loads of potential, but is more similar to someone like Miki or Irina. Jumping is her strength but she can do everything else well too, although her skating is not as quintessentially beautiful as the pretty princess type skaters.
 

cjsk8fan

On the Ice
Joined
Mar 11, 2005
I guess I must qualify my statement that Agnes' spins looked as good as Alissas'. In this competition I did not think Alissas' spins looked nearly as fast or centered as I have seen them previously. Thus, in this competition I think Agnes' were as good.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
I don't think Alissa's spins were her best here, although I believe the problem is with the new rules for spins. Doing 8 revolutions in a single position gains you a Level. It's a bad rule that needs to go away (except for scratch spins, but in that case it should be 8+ revolutions of a scratch spin that counts as a feature, not 8+ revolutions counting for something extra). Some skaters are only changing position a total of twice in their Change-of-Foot combination spin and getting Level 4, which is pretty ridiculous ---> Camel spin, into a "difficult variation" sit spin held for 8+ rotations, and change foot into a "difficult variation" upright spin held for 8+ rotations. Reaaaallllly boring. A change-of-foot combination spin should be showcasing lots of different positions and Alissa is capable of them.
 
Last edited:

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
I don't think Alissa's spins were her best here, although I believe the problem is with the new rules for spins. Doing 8 revolutions in a single position gains you a Level. It's a bad rule that needs to go away (except for scratch spins, but in that case it should be 8+ revolutions of a scratch spin that counts as a feature, not 8+ revolutions counting for something extra). Some skaters are only changing position a total of twice in their Change-of-Foot combination spin and getting Level 4, which is pretty ridiculous ---> Camel spin, into a "difficult variation" sit spin held for 8+ rotations, and change foot into a "difficult variation" upright spin held for 8+ rotations. Reaaaallllly boring. A change-of-foot combination spin should be showcasing lots of different positions and Alissa is capable of them.

I agree, the spinning in one position for so many revolutions should pertain more to a single spin, not a combo spin.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
JMO and not an expert, but some of Alissa's spins are great, others not so much. For example her Y spin with the hand in front of the ankle seems amazingly effortless, fast, and fabulous - or is it an I-spin? - she's so flexible I can't tell. Her camel spin OTOH seems uncentered - I never noticed it before but it just doesn't look right, compared to, say, Kostner's.
 

Blades of Passion

Skating is Art, if you let it be
Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Country
France
She did a change-of-edge in her Camel during the Combination Spin, that may be what looks confusing. Her centering is generally always excellent, no matter what spin she is doing.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
I don't think that's it. It is more a question of her back not seeming to be in the right position ("right" being what looks good to me as executed by other skaters). I'm not talking about her spins in general because I never noticed this before - just this skate.

But then I wasn't wild about her whole skate... although it's good to see her standing up, that's for sure. I've liked her programs and skating much more in the past.
 

Tonichelle

Idita-Rock-n-Roll
Record Breaker
Joined
Jun 27, 2003
there's a certain edge in a camel spin that just looks awkward no matter who does it, to me, so it might be what causes her back to not look right...
 

Nadine

Record Breaker
Joined
Oct 3, 2003
Okay, now that's it midnight, lol, I was finally able to sit down & watch the Ladies FS (or at least the top dogs, the others I skipped or skimmed over). And here are my thoughts:

Alissa Czisny was a delight to watch skate! *clapping* She has the complete overall package, same as Carolina Kostner had at NHK last week, only problem with these two is they miss more than they hit, but alas this season they both hit! :)

Agnes Zawadzki seemed to me like a different skater all together in the FS. I loved her hair, costume, and program a thousand times more than I did her SP. Easy to see she has the best jumps out there, and when she's on they get her a place on the podium, but when she's off like here it doesn't. Rightfully so. That said, I would love for her to work on her overall look, including cutting her hair into a pixie cut because of her long angular oval face-shape ala Amy Winehouse & Sarah Jessica Park (btw wish Mao would get a pixie cut as well; she's 20 yrs. old now, time to lose the long girlish hair). Here's a great site that talks about different hairstyles for someone with Agnes's face shape: http://www.helium.com/items/1341992-hairstyles-for-long-face-shape ***NOTE: I hear she's working on a 3A! If true I couldn't be more delighted!***

Ksenia's FS was very very nice, but she didn't impress me as much as she did with her SP. Good job, good job! :)^)


That's it, either nobody else impressed me, or I didn't watch their program, or both. I honestly find Mens skating more exciting. C'est la vie.
 

russell30

Final Flight
Joined
Dec 14, 2004
I watched the ladies FS and my thoughts.

Sonia Lafuente - Nice to see she has the Flip now in her repertoire and tonight it was a beauty, some other jumps let her down, but overall her performance was nice, not sure on the music, she should have kept her orobroy/poeta LP from last year. Sonia needs to continually work on her artistry - still needs to project more - but still very nice.

Fumie Suguri - Love the new program and outfit at least Fumie is trying another style of music. But I feel she seemed a bit slow tonight and her transitions were not the best and her flow was not the usual Fumie - probably a lot to work on. The jumps now seem to be letting her down and she was also behind Haruka Imai too. I fear for Fumie at Nationals. But Fumie is still nice to watch. I cant believe I first saw her back in 1997.

Myriane Samson - Wow Myriane has worked a lot on her jumps and looked beautiful out there - watch out Nationals. Loved her jumps and her choreography. Keep going Myriane. She deserved better than 7th. I would have had her top 5. My 2nd best program of the night behind Alissa's:biggrin:

Haruka Imai - First time I have seen her. very fast over the ice and has nice jumps, really nothing in between but Haruka will improve. Nice skate.

Amelie Lacoste - Nice package was hoping to see that triple loop/loop but it didn't come off. Powerful skater, was surprised she got the bronze.

Ksenia Makarova - Nice program, for me Ksenia seems to concentrate on one jump to the next and her artistry falls flat. But she is improving. She reminds me of a young Butryskaya. I prefer Kiira's Evita though.

Cynthia Phaneuf - Oh Cynthia, it either works for Cynthia or it dosent. I dont know about the rest of you, but I cringe when she goes into the lutz it either makes or breaks the program. But she is gorgeous and her musicality and transitional moves are excellent. When Cynthia is on she is top five in the world. Roll on next GP.

Alissa Czsny - Alissa FANTASTIC - wow what a program, jumps, spins, footwork, complete package. I don't know about you guys but the best program so far. AND thank you Alissa for choosing George Winston - love the piano pieces they just sound great in an arena and create such a mood. Alissa is on for Nationals- complete package for me.:biggrin:
 

R.D.

Record Breaker
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
To think that two skaters many folks were about to push aside came out and made a statement in their first event. Still, it's early and things happen. :biggrin:
 
Top